LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

I think you bring up a good point. LA has blight pretty evenly spaced throughout it's metro; consequently, you can't really avoid it and we aren't able to hide it from our tourists who all think this place looks pretty shabby. With that said, no single neighborhood looks all that bad. Compared to Paris suburbs, North Philly, much of Chicago, Niagara Falls, 90% of Baltimore, and parts of
Cape Town, Johannesberg, Rio de Janeiro, Havana, Santo Domingo, Mexico City, Los Angeles does not have any areas that look nearly as scary. Skid Row, South LA, and Santa Ana look much better than the worst parts of most other world cities.

I guess Detroit goes without saying. Just yesterday I was searching for pictures of blight in LA and really couldn't find anything half as bad as what is present in other cities. The worst I've personally seen when I'm in the city is graffiti, and even some of that is fun to look at (graffiti art).

[OneMetropolis]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

I think you bring up a good point. LA has blight pretty evenly spaced throughout it's metro; consequently, you can't really avoid it and we aren't able to hide it from our tourists who all think this place looks pretty shabby. With that said, no single neighborhood looks all that bad. Compared to Paris suburbs, North Philly, much of Chicago, Niagara Falls, 90% of Baltimore, and parts of
Cape Town, Johannesberg, Rio de Janeiro, Havana, Santo Domingo, Mexico City, Los Angeles does not have any areas that look nearly as scary. Skid Row, South LA, and Santa Ana look much better than the worst parts of most other world cities.

I agree 100%. LA isn't perfect but what city is?

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis

I agree 100%. LA isn't perfect but what city is?

Copenhagen

But seriously, I love that the Jeffries opened up such a short time ago and is already half full. And for such an off-the-grid location, no less! I really don't understand why developers aren't building high-rise apartment towers left and right, with the demand we have DT. Zen Tower! Come to me!

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Copenhagen

But seriously, I love that the Jeffries opened up such a short time ago and is already half full. And for such an off-the-grid location, no less! I really don't understand why developers aren't building high-rise apartment towers left and right, with the demand we have DT. Zen Tower! Come to me!

Not only that, it'll help clean up what probably is the Southland's worst 'hood: Skid Row.

[Kingofthehill]

Off-the-grid? It's damn-near on the same block as Bäco Mercat, Pete's, and Blossom.

[colemonkee]

^ Technically it IS on the same block. It's in a great location, save for the blight of Los Angeles Street.

As to why developers aren't building high rises like Zen Tower left and right? They still don't pencil out for the most part. They may have in the condo boom days, but a 50-story tower like Zen won't pencil out for the foreseeable future - as condo or rental. Currently there's only two residential buildings over 20 stories that claim to be starting construction soon (but haven't just yet), and one 20 story residential tower with a well-established developer that still can't lock down financing. So while there is significant demand there, rental prices only pencil out for those few lucky developers who were able to obtain their land with plans & entitlements at a depressed cost from another floundering developer.

So in terms of the economic winds opening up the high-rise development pipeline, we're not quite out of the woods just yet. However, if we get even 8th and Hope, 9th and Olive, and Angelena (or Angelina, or el Angelinarino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing) under construction by the end of the year, we'll have a pretty healthy level of construction going on that could support another similar wave of developments in the 6-12 months following their completion (I'm looking at you, Apex/Concerto Tower #2!!!)

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ Technically it IS on the same block. It's in a great location, save for the blight of Los Angeles Street.

As to why developers aren't building high rises like Zen Tower left and right? They still don't pencil out for the most part. They may have in the condo boom days, but a 50-story tower like Zen won't pencil out for the foreseeable future - as condo or rental. Currently there's only two residential buildings over 20 stories that claim to be starting construction soon (but haven't just yet), and one 20 story residential tower with a well-established developer that still can't lock down financing. So while there is significant demand there, rental prices only pencil out for those few lucky developers who were able to obtain their land with plans & entitlements at a depressed cost from another floundering developer. ]

That may be so, but then why are apartment high-rises penciling out in, say, Seattle? It's not like Seattle is more expensive then L.A. And I've looked at the rental prices, just out of curiosity, and they are about the same as rental prices in L.A. Moreover, rental prices in L.A are expected to go up almost ten percent by the end of the next year. Are buildings simply less expensive to build in other cities?

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Off-the-grid? It's damn-near on the same block as Bäco Mercat, Pete's, and Blossom.

Well, relatively off-the-grid.

[alki]

Originally Posted by edluva

bingo that is the spirit of la. everyone and everything, including institutions, are more image-conscious and self-serving (aka "douchey").

there is overall little concern for intrinsic substance and little desire to identify with a common civic identity whatever that may be. every angeleno is too good for la's negative traits. you don't get the kind of civic pride and sense of personal responsibility you'll find of residents and institutions of the east coast or sf.

From time to time, public institutions create new complexes.........complexes that can enhance urban life. They don't happen very often so you want to maximize their bang. Therefore, IMO, putting an important museum on top of a hill overlooking the San Diego freeway is a total waste. Beautiful complex.........I like the architecture.......but it does the real city very little good. And LA does that way too often.

[alki]

Originally Posted by austex

My thought is that in order to create a sense of community one needs to interact with others in shared experience. Whether it is sharing the beach on the weekend, or going to the farmers market in the park, or canoeing on the river or the lake with others, or seeing a movie/concert outdoors at the public green. DTLA has no venue that is public that can draw a crowd to interact. If 3 or 4 full blocks were aggregated together with a public green to be used for concerts/movies/farmers markets etc. then the local residence might acquire a sense of being a "Downtowner" or similar identity. If this space attracts festivals with regional reach then perhaps it would help strengthen the "Angelino" identity. Now if this space was surrounded with street level restaurants/shops/galleries etc. and had world class public/private institutions nearby and hosted major festivals on occasion then LA might have a downtown area with world class draw.

DTLA and the public needs to realize that public gathering space is essential. The Private/Private/Private mentality restricts. Great Urban Spaces the world over are beloved by the nearby residents...regional residents...and world visitors for bringing people together in shared public experience.

For some reason, it seems LA has trouble with designing good public spaces. For an example, Los Feliz park is a beautiful park........great for hiking........but its not a people place where people hang out in large numbers. Maybe its not the design........maybe its Angelenos.......maybe they don't like to congregate in public. I could never figure that one out.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I was near dt a few wks ago & got sort of lost while driving alone south of fig, going under the overpass of the samo fwy. I had to take a detour to get on the fwy & ended up driving down a street (not sure if it was pico) that was so , that right then & there I felt very . That reaction wasn't much better when I was in other parts of the hood, esp after looking at the location of where a new apt bldg is going up on fig across from the convention ctr. It's at times like that I can't help but ask: why was it so bad in the first place?!!! why were things allowed to get this to begin with?!!

Its not very complicated..........the people in charge didn't care. And when the people in charge don't care, it takes a lot of little people to get their attention and make change happen. That's how it works in other cities but in LA, people don't seem motivated enough to do anything.

When I was in Highland Park saving two craftsman houses, I did things I thought would enhance the neighborhood......org. a neighborhood group, got the city to install old fashioned street lamps like the ones in Hancock Park, and planted jacarandas on the median strip across from the houses. BTW this was all on my own time.

One day I was having lunch with my boss at the time and he brought up what I was doing in HP. He said to me why are you putting so much effort into that neighborhood.........you will never get back the equivalent money. Unfortunately that attitude is a little too pervasive in LA.........which is not to say there aren't good people trying to make a difference........there just doesn't seem to be enough of them.

And so when certain neighborhoods deteriorate and there are disincentives to economic investment, no one objects. That's why the neighborhood equivalents of Echo Park, HIghland Park and USC/Adams Blvd in other cities have long ago been revived and are now very popular and expensive places to live. The process is still happening in LA.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Muji

This one flew a little under the radar: the southeast corner of 8th and Spring is set to become the second location of mini Italian chain Terroni, opening expected in November. One look at the interior and you know it's got huge potential to liven up the currently deserted corner. 8th and 9th Sts have been on a tear the last year with very positively received restaurant openings, Umamicatessen, Pattern Bar, Towne, etc.

Article on EaterLA: http://la.eater.com/archives/2012/07/18/terroni_goes_glam_in_a_big_way_opening_dtown_in_nov.php

Photo from EaterLA

When I see stuff like this, I know DTLA's future is assured.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

That may be so, but then why are apartment high-rises penciling out in, say, Seattle? It's not like Seattle is more expensive then L.A. And I've looked at the rental prices, just out of curiosity, and they are about the same as rental prices in L.A. Moreover, rental prices in L.A are expected to go up almost ten percent by the end of the next year. Are buildings simply less expensive to build in other cities?

Jobs. Lots and lots of jobs.......for the past two years. And now Amazon has moved its headquarters downtown, absorbed a humongous amount of office space and is talking about building 3 forty story office bldgs near its headquarters.

And did I meantion jobs? You want development.......make the economics happen.

[colemonkee]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

That may be so, but then why are apartment high-rises penciling out in, say, Seattle? It's not like Seattle is more expensive then L.A. And I've looked at the rental prices, just out of curiosity, and they are about the same as rental prices in L.A. Moreover, rental prices in L.A are expected to go up almost ten percent by the end of the next year. Are buildings simply less expensive to build in other cities?

It comes down to land prices and construction costs, not necessarily availability of jobs. Downtown has one of the largest concentrations of white collar jobs in the city. Land prices in LA are very high, probably somewhere comparable to those in NY or SF (though both of those are likely higher than LA). Then factor in that labor costs are likely higher in LA due to union rules and higher costs of living, and materials costs may be higher due to supply chains, distance from manufacturing centers, and sales tax. Compound that with the very tedious and expensive process of code compliance and plan check in LA, and you have your answer as to why buildings are more expensive to build than in, say, Seattle.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by alki

Its not very complicated..........the people in charge didn't care. And when the people in charge don't care, it takes a lot of little people to get their attention and make change happen. That's how it works in other cities but in LA, people don't seem motivated enough to do anything.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

I notice some ppl instead claim the biggest problem is due to a lack of transit, or not enough parks, or that things like the getty museum or the grove shopping ctr are a certain way. Or that apt towers have parking podiums, or that bldgs aren't oriented to the sidewalks, or our bldgs are too short. Or that ppl in LA like cars instead of trains, or they don't like to walk, or they're too plastic & into hollywood flash.

I think all of that pales next to problems like this....


kingofthehill

^ I think that's disgusting....it makes me ... The owner can't even do something as simple as removing the lettering on the bldg's marquee, much less doing far bigger improvements. And the shopkeepers who rent from the slumlord are no better, & their customers who tolerate such are just as bad too.

when too many ppl & the places they own are merely variations of the type who controls the roxie theater, then it's silly to over analyze the problem with LA or make it sound like it's more complicated than it really is.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

LA has blight pretty evenly spaced throughout it's metro; consequently, you can't really avoid it and we aren't able to hide it from our tourists who all think this place looks pretty shabby.

You also pretty much sum things up.

I can never forget reading the blog of a women from mumbai india who traveled to CA & said that LA wasn't very appealing, or something like that. She did like the SF area, but thought LA lacked a certain niceness.

What got me to was when she became so insulted after I mentioned----& I truly wasn't trying to be insulting----how the opinion she had of LA was even more telling since it came from a person who lives in a country infamous for poverty & squalor.

I know more recently there was a survey of americans opinions of US cities & many of them placed only detroit & oakland lower than LA. I think it's baloney for the city to be rated so negatively, but for whatever reason that reaction is out there.

btw, I think LA today----inc dt----is in some ways better than it has ever been. Of course some wags (or trolls) may say that's cuz it never was all that nice to begin with. But as others point out in the posts above, the shape of things here or anywhere else often are....or always have been....a mixed bag.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by alki

Jobs. Lots and lots of jobs.......for the past two years. And now Amazon has moved its headquarters downtown, absorbed a humongous amount of office space and is talking about building 3 forty story office bldgs near its headquarters.

And did I meantion jobs? You want development.......make the economics happen.

Nope. Reduce the high parking quota in LA and then you'll get development.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by alki

For some reason, it seems LA has trouble with designing good public spaces. For an example, Los Feliz park is a beautiful park........great for hiking........but its not a people place where people hang out in large numbers. Maybe its not the design........maybe its Angelenos.......maybe they don't like to congregate in public. I could never figure that one out.

Los Feliz Park is not easily accessible. Now, get parks on/near Metro rail stations and that'll change. You already hear a lot of people in LA start thinking about going to Exposition Park with the Expo Line for their Friday Night Movie Series. The new Grand Civic Park is going to be above the Civic Center Red/Purple Line station.

Look at Pershing Square during events, especially Santacon, Pillow Fight, Night Lights, free concerts, ice skating, etc... the place gets PACKED. And tons of those people are taking the Red/Purple Line to easily arrive there.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I think that's disgusting....it makes me ... The owner can't even do something as simple as removing the lettering on the bldg's marquee, much less doing far bigger improvements. And the shopkeepers who rent from the slumlord are no better, & their customers who tolerate such are just as bad too.

when too many ppl & the places they own are merely variations of the type who controls the roxie theater, then it's silly to over analyze the problem with LA or make it sound like it's more complicated than it really is.

Working class people need places where they can afford to run a storefront and shop too. Can't expect everything to cater to people of greater affluence.

[Illithid Dude]

I love how I ask one question and get three different answers. I'm sure the reality is a mixture of the three, but here is my two cents:

To quote Jurrassic Park, life finds a way. L.A has always been a city against the odds, yet somehow, things have a way of working themselves out. I believe that is the same with development downtown. Sure, there may be factors against development, but there is always a way to circumvent. Things are ramping up. No one can deny that. Proposals are coming in- at a trickle, sure, but that is more then can be said about prior years. And with the steadily growing flow of development related news comes a slow return back to older ways. Developers, let's face it, for better or for worse, often have an ego. They like their name on tall, iconic, shiny things. As rental prices, housing sales, bidding wars, increase, developers become steadily more reassured, and steadily more passionate about building bigger, building better, building above the status quo. Is this optimistic? Sure! But what's life without a little optimism, a little chutzpah? Like I said, just my two cents. And forgive me if I sound a little speach-y. I just got back from The Dark Knight Rises, and am full of thoughts of rousing speeches.

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Los Feliz Park is not easily accessible. Now, get parks on/near Metro rail stations and that'll change. You already hear a lot of people in LA start thinking about going to Exposition Park with the Expo Line for their Friday Night Movie Series. The new Grand Civic Park is going to be above the Civic Center Red/Purple Line station.

Look at Pershing Square during events, especially Santacon, Pillow Fight, Night Lights, free concerts, ice skating, etc... the place gets PACKED. And tons of those people are taking the Red/Purple Line to easily arrive there.

I agree. When I first attended a concert at Pershing Square a few years ago I as shocked at how many people, including kids and families, were there. Alki, I do believe your perception of 20 years ago has changed. Plus, I do have mention that every weekend the beaches are packed in the summer. Having grown up at the beach, it is crazy how many thousands pack the city/state beaches. Those is our most important parks. Samo, Venice, Manhattan, Hermosa, Redondo...and many visit from inland areas to escape the heat.

Downtown, there are many tourists and locals enjoying the park above Angels Flight (it became famous from "500 Days of Summer" movie). Near Colemonkee, the LAPD HQ is dog park central. It is really a community of dog owners who frequent the park. Grand/Hope park used to be deserted on weekends. Not anymore. But LA of Anaheim has a point. The amazing Vista Hermosa park just west of DT is quieter...most drive there as the metro is not easily accessible. Also, the new State Park adj. to Chinatown has great events and lots of joggers/dog walkers. It is packed during events but it is not fully developed yet. And yes, Exposition Park is now accessible to the masses due to the Expo Line.

I can't wait for the new Civic Center Park. Since the Music Center will be organizing perfomances there, I do believe it will attract a great diversity of people, much like the concerts at Calif. Plaza. What it has going for it is a beautiful, huge fountain and areas for picnicing.