[Moncton] Retail Thread

[Norshorer]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

You're absolutely correct MonctonRad.

We have a Starbucks within Indigo and a full service Starbucks with a Drive Thru as well within the same development. And a third used to be in the mall a stones throw away. Once Target opens, there will be three all in the immediate vicinity again.

So I can only assume it will be no different in NW Moncton and they will all do just fine.

If that's the case, then great... the more the merrier IMHO... just ANYTHING that's different than a frickin Tims every 2 feet down the street (Sorry, Robin's Donuts just doesn't have enough of a presence around here to be considered a major player in my books. A small counter at a gas station = no wonder I keep forgetting about it).

Plus if having more Starbucks = slim chance in hell we'll be getting ALL the items shown on Starbuck.ca instead of just a select few things = I'm 1000% all for it. Nothing pisses me off more than when I go to a store thinking I'll find the same things shown on their site only to be told "That's only available out West" or "We don't sell that here".

I can totally foresee a Starbucks at Mapleton Power Center (or Fashion Center... whatever the heck they're calling it nowadays ) once the site gets built up and more stores start popping up. Regardless, I'm just glad to see the fast pace & continuous workflow at what used to be known as the "epic fail pit". Things are progressing along quite nicely as the curbing is pretty well done in most spots as well as foundations starting to appear for some of the remaining buildings. A far cry from what was on-site a year ago.

Can't wait for retailers to get off their arse and start confirming whether or not their stores will/won't be going at that site. We've been kept in the dark for far too long with only hearsay and rumors to go on.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Hubbub

I can assure y'all, Subway is NOT going anywhere. It was recently reno'ed and why would you move when a massive retailer is opening a 120,000ft shop next door....

They did their reno before Target bought Zellers, and its not up to them if they stay or go its up to PlazaCorp who owns the building. If Target wanted that space they would get it believe me...

[Taeolas]

It wouldn't be the first time; nor will it be the last time that a store does a big renovation before having to pack it up and move (if they're lucky).

Hell, up here in Freddy, Music World built a beautiful new store front in Uptown Centre mere months (if that) before the entire chain went belly up.

[q12]

Target has released their opening dates for stores across the country.

http://pressroom.target.ca/pr/tgt-en/target-confirms-store-locations-236413.aspx

OPENING FALL 2013

Nova Scotia
Bedford – Bedford Place
Dartmouth - Mic Mac Mall
Halifax – Bayers Lake Power Centre

OPENING WINTER 2013/2014

Nova Scotia
Sydney – Sydney Shopping Centre

New Brunswick
Fredericton – Uptown Centre
Moncton – Northwest Centre
St. John - Mcallister Place

Newfoundland
Corner Brook – Corner Brook
St. John’s - Cabot Square

PEI
Charlottetown – Charlottetown Mall

[MonctonRad]

This timeline seems fairly reasonable.

Target can't even start the renovations and expansion to the Northwest Centre location until the existing tenants in the central part of the shopping plaza get relocated.

The two new mini strips that will accomodate the displaced tenants won't be ready until September or October. The retailers will then have to decamp to their new dwellings which might take another month or so. That means that renovations/construction for the new Target can't begin until November at the very earliest. Construction will likely take nine months or so, taking us to August or September 2013. The new store then has to be stocked and employees trained.

I could see the new store being ready for November 2013 though, and it seems a little strange that they wouldn't plan to have the new Target up and running before Christmas. Waiting until January or February 2014 means a lot of lost sales.......

[Norshorer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I could see the new store being ready for November 2013 though, and it seems a little strange that they wouldn't plan to have the new Target up and running before Christmas. Waiting until January or February 2014 means a lot of lost sales.......

Maybe it's a good thing that they're dragging their feet on this? It shows that they're (hopefully) taking the time to get things right.

I recall when it was announced several months ago that the store would be open in 2013, I thought they meant maybe something like May/June. The fact that it'll moreso be early 2014 is a bit of a piss-off, but since we probably won't be getting the same items as the American version of Target, then I can wait.

As much as I hope it won't be the case, I foresee this being nothing more than a rebranded Zellers when it first opens, much like how Zellers became a rebranded K-Mart when it first started taking over the old stores.

[OUIR@random]

Originally Posted by Norshorer

As much as I hope it won't be the case, I foresee this being nothing more than a rebranded Zellers when it first opens, much like how Zellers became a rebranded K-Mart when it first started taking over the old stores.

I seriously doubt that, they will probably differ from the American version just like Walmart is different in Canada than in the US. However, Target is a huge company and they are not known to do anything half-a*s, just look at their history, their marketing strategies, their financial standing; US$ 69.865 billion in revenue last year! They will not tarnish their reputation to come into Canada, most Zellers stores will be gutted and closed for several months, they will look nothing like Zellers.
Just my 2 cents...

[statbass]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

I seriously doubt that, they will probably differ from the American version just like Walmart is different in Canada than in the US. However, Target is a huge company and they are not known to do anything half-a*s, just look at their history, their marketing strategies, their financial standing; US$ 69.865 billion in revenue last year! They will not tarnish their reputation to come into Canada, most Zellers stores will be gutted and closed for several months, they will look nothing like Zellers.
Just my 2 cents...

^^^ I completely agree. Target will be a direct competitor of Walmart - Zellers was nowhere near Walmart in terms of competition (i.e. price, selection of items, brands, etc). I think Target will do really well in Atlantic Canada.... I'm looking forward to shopping there.

[Hubbub]

Originally Posted by mmmatt

They did their reno before Target bought Zellers, and its not up to them if they stay or go its up to PlazaCorp who owns the building. If Target wanted that space they would get it believe me...

Well, i have to disagree. I hear the Subway has quite a few years left on their lease with Plaza. They just cant terminate a lease when they're are dealing with the worlds largest food franchise. That lease is set in stone.

The only way that Plaza can get Subway to move is to open their thick wallets (which they have already offered, with unsalted peanuts).

It would have to be MANY peanuts for somene to decide to move farther away from an already high traffic area that has one the worlds largest retailers moving in next door....

[MonctonRad]

If it's a choice between Target and Subway, I'm willing to bet that PlazaCorp would go with Target 100% of the time.

Every other retailer in the central portion of the retail plaza is moving. If Subway were to stay, that would mean that Target would have to build around them. This isn't very likely.

I'm sure that there is an "out" clause in the lease that will allow PlazaCorp to do what it wants.

[OUIR@random]

Synonyms with Target; Cool, Stylish, Design, Clean, New, Trendy. Those adjectives could never be used with Walmart and even less with Zellers. Don't get me wrong, Target is not an upscale store, but the coolness level is very high, not an easy task in the retail world. Just look at TMZ or the likes of... when the rich and famous are not getting mobbed by paparazzi at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, they're at Target! Walmart, Loblaws, Canadian Tire and on some level Shoppers Drug Mart, are all major retailers in Canada who are worried about the arrival of Target and I would be too. Walmart once said that the only corporation in the world who worries them is Target. Target usually don't beat them (Walmart) on their low price, but what's the price of cool? Time to buy Target shares!

[Hubbub]

Ok..some seem be not getting this......there is a lease with Subway and Plaza. You cannot break a contractual lease with an International franchise just because Target wants in. If Plaza and Target wants that space, its up to them to make the right offer to ASK them to move. A contract is a contract.

The lease is with Subway HQ in Connecticut, NOT the franchisee.....thats an entity you cant screw with





QUOTE=MonctonRad;5769218]

If it's a choice between Target and Subway, I'm willing to bet that PlazaCorp would go with Target 100% of the time.

Every other retailer in the central portion of the retail plaza is moving. If Subway were to stay, that would mean that Target would have to build around them. This isn't very likely.

I'm sure that there is an "out" clause in the lease that will allow PlazaCorp to do what it wants.[/QUOTE]

[MonctonRad]

Are you sure that the lease was negotiated directly with Subways parent Doctors Associated in Connecticut?

Subway has thousands of locations and hundreds of franchisees in North America. I'm not sure the parent company would micromanage to that degree, especially with a successful local franchisee like we have in Moncton with (I believe) 13 franchises in the metro area.

I think there is a good chance that the lease was negotiated locally. As I said, PlazaCorp may have negotiated an "out" clause, allowing them out of the lease under certain circumstances. Even if there isn't an out clause, the local franchisee probably knows that it would not be to his benefit to obstruct a major new development like Target from entering the marketplace. The lease could be subject to renegotiation, with alternate arrangements being made to satisfy the terms of the lease. This is what all the other leaseholders in the Northwest Centre have done. This is whyPlazaCorp is building the two new adjacent mini strips to accomodate the displaced retailers. It would be suicidal for Subway to not go along.

I'm certain Subway will move.

[Taeolas]

In the end, all it will take will be a big enough dump truck full of money. While the deal is between Plaza Corp and Subway, you can be sure Target is involved too; if only as a way for Plaza Corp to make sure the dump truck is big enough. (Charge some/all of the fees to move Subway to Target over multiyears for example)

[Hubbub]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

In the end, all it will take will be a big enough dump truck full of money. While the deal is between Plaza Corp and Subway, you can be sure Target is involved too; if only as a way for Plaza Corp to make sure the dump truck is big enough. (Charge some/all of the fees to move Subway to Target over multiyears for example)

Taelos...what u said!!! Lol. The dump truck thing. BUT, when you have a solid, no "out" clause lease with, yes, Doctors and Associates, not the local franchisees, you cant just throw them out. Again, it doesnt work that way.

Leases with large franchises are done through HQ, NOT through the local franchisee, and then sublet to the local franchisee. So, Plaza would not be dealing with the local franchisees, they would be dealing with multi bilionaire Fred Deluca and his army of lawyers.

Again, no matter who it is, if you have a lease ( with no "out" clause, and who would be stupid enough to sign such a lease with such a clause) it would take said dump truck of dough to make things even somewhat interesting.....

[OUIR@random]

Originally Posted by Hubbub

Ok..some seem be not getting this......there is a lease with Subway and Plaza. You cannot break a contractual lease with an International franchise just because Target wants in. If Plaza and Target wants that space, its up to them to make the right offer to ASK them to move. A contract is a contract.

The lease is with Subway HQ in Connecticut, NOT the franchisee.....thats an entity you cant screw with

I can 110% confirm that leases within a mall, building or whatever are done with the person (usually a corporation under the NB Corp Act) who owns the franchise or the "Master Franchisee" not Subway Headquarters in Milford, Connecticut. With the case with Subway at Northwest Center; Plaza Corp. has an agreement with the franchisee NOT directly with the Subway Corporation. I've owned food franchises in the past and have many friends who owns; DQ, Subway, McDonalds among others... Take it or leave it.

[Hubbub]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

I can 110% confirm that leases within a mall, building or whatever are done with the person (usually a corporation under the NB Corp Act) who owns the franchise or the "Master Franchisee" not Subway Headquarters in Milford, Connecticut. With the case with Subway at Northwest Center; Plaza Corp. has an agreement with the franchisee NOT with the Subway Corporation. I've owned food franchises in the past and have many friends who owns; DQ, Subway, McDonalds among others... Take it or leave it.

Have you owned or presently own a Subway franchise?

[Hubbub]

Originally Posted by OUIR@random

I can 110% confirm that leases within a mall, building or whatever are done with the person (usually a corporation under the NB Corp Act) who owns the franchise or the "Master Franchisee" not Subway Headquarters in Milford, Connecticut. With the case with Subway at Northwest Center; Plaza Corp. has an agreement with the franchisee NOT directly with the Subway Corporation. I've owned food franchises in the past and have many friends who owns; DQ, Subway, McDonalds among others... Take it or leave it.

I actually should clarify....Subway HQ means Subway Canada, not HQ in Milford CT. Totally separate entity

[Hubbub]

Originally Posted by Hubbub

I actually should clarify....Subway HQ means Subway Canada, not HQ in Milford CT. Totally separate entity

And am actually going to "leave it".....

[OUIR@random]

There is no such thing as Subway Canada per se. Each region in Canada has a Master Franchisee who answers to Subway offices in Milford, CT. The Master Franchisee has local owners-franchisees under them and so on... The franchise world is quite complex, but interesting nonetheless.