Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[S-Man]

That Prague building is the ugliest piece of shit I've ever seen.

It looks like the module on the end of the Discovery space probe in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

And we all know why was REALLY in control of the Discovery, right? Yeah, a murderous computer. Thanks, Glebe. Is this what you want????

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

John Clifford from Perkins Eastman is the architect for the residential/retail part of the project.

And I'm sure a lot of people agree with me that it does not look like a mall; it's more of a seamless addition to the Glebe's urban fabric. And that was the point, not an extravagant design that would take away from the Aberdeen Pavilion.

Seamless seems like a bit of an overstatement. I would say more like, overpowering to the surrounding neighbourhood

...but also banal enough that no tourist in their right mind would want to come see it.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Seamless seems like a bit of an overstatement. I would say more like, overpowering to the surrounding neighbourhood

...but also banal enough that no tourist in their right mind would want to come see it.

You can't pick and choose which design you want to use to prove your point. The picture you are referring to is not the final design. Since then they have greatly reduced the height of the buildings, from mid-rise condos (about 80 feet) to simple townhomes (maybe 35 feet).

As you can CLEARLY see from YOUR OWN postings, the heigh has been greatly reduced;

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

There are some views I have been able to glean, that do not give me faith:

From the promo video, looking west:



This view, looking east:

...shows that the mega-plex will be the tallest new building (excluding the transparent, someday maybe office buildings) on the site

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

One of the stated purposes of the Lansdowne redevelopment scheme is to promote tourism. Too bad the architecture will be so banal.

One high-rise on Bank street, then townhomes behind the retail ranging from maybe 25 feet, to the megaplex (tops 40 feet), another building of maybe 20 feet and finally the Horticulture building's ass, which will be greatly improved.

[concernedottawa]

Final designs and costing will not be released until fall. A helpful reference to building heights would be the City of Ottawa report from the City Manager . Refer to half way down Table 1 ( bottom of page provides map locations of building references ). For example the Bank tower can go to 42 metres ( 14 story ), residential to 12 metres ( 4 story ), and the third tower of three is approved to 60 metres max ( 20 story ). It is safe to say the model is contrary to by-law adopted by the city in 2009 from public input. The City has trapped itself by its own laws. "Development is to take place respecting the public nature of the site, respecting the scale and character of the neighborhood, and without private homes and large format commercial".

As you will also see the scale of the development has been creeping up over time. The report on air rights demonstrates perimeter buildings ( separate from retail ) total 473,000 sqft. Retail has now been upped to close to 370,000 sqft for a total added of roughly 850,000 sqft.

When the final designs and costing are released sometime in late September early October a complete picture will be available. The scale of the development makes great sense on an ROI point of view for the private investors but not the public. There are better friends for the City to become involved with who are more than ready to double the City return on the project.

The P3 model is a good one, the terms and the partners need to be changed.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by S-Man

That Prague building is the ugliest piece of shit I've ever seen.

It looks like the module on the end of the Discovery space probe in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

And we all know why was REALLY in control of the Discovery, right? Yeah, a murderous computer. Thanks, Glebe. Is this what you want????

Perhaps. But I rarely see anyone at South Keys posing in front of the Walmart or breaking into dance at the sight of the Future Shop.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You can't pick and choose which design you want to use to prove your point. The picture you are referring to is not the final design. Since then they have greatly reduced the height of the buildings, from mid-rise condos (about 80 feet) to simple townhomes (maybe 35 feet).

As you can CLEARLY see from YOUR OWN postings, the heigh has been greatly reduced;

One high-rise on Bank street, then townhomes behind the retail ranging from maybe 25 feet, to the megaplex (tops 40 feet), another building of maybe 20 feet and finally the Horticulture building's ass, which will be greatly improved.

If there is confusion about what the place will actually look like it's because the developers keep changing their minds. In the normal process of approving this sort of project the design would be set at the beginning of the process, not just, "trust us, we'll do something nice."

Dunno. Still looks like a lot of height and density if this pic of the corner of Bank and Holmwood is to be believed. Although at least those transparent highrises shouldn't block out as much sunlight as Holmwood residents feared.



(Though I would be reluctant to live in a building where all the structural members were made of glass, and especially vulnerable to attacks by blue Angry Birds!)

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

That's a naive (and probably dishonest) claim. Have you ever been on the Internet? Even with Lansdowne Live, the prevalence of claims that this is a big box development goes to show that people readily lap up horse shit with little critical thinking.

Oh waitaminit, didn't you hear, it's no longer Lansdowne Live. Apparently there are far too many other redevelopment schemes called "Live this" and "Live that."
http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/05/03/retail-at-insert-city-here-live/

As for the size of development, while there may be no large format retailers like Home Despot or SprawlMart suggested (for now), the developer - Trinity - is very much a big box developer, the likely tenants are probably not going to be mom & pop stores, and there is no guarantee that some years down the road that smaller spaces don't get merged together to accommodate real big boxes.

[jaydog0212]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Oh waitaminit, didn't you hear, it's no longer Lansdowne Live. Apparently there are far too many other redevelopment schemes called "Live this" and "Live that."
http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/05/03/retail-at-insert-city-here-live/

As for the size of development, while there may be no large format retailers like Home Despot or SprawlMart suggested (for now), the developer - Trinity - is very much a big box developer, the likely tenants are probably not going to be mom & pop stores, and there is no guarantee that some years down the road that smaller spaces don't get merged together to accommodate real big boxes.

My real big concern if Landsdown does not happen that will be the end of the Glebe in many ways you would see many stores move to other areas such as the market etc.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

I doubt anybody would have thought my little representation is "legitimate" JamPhoe. Now who is the sheeple?

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

That's a naive (and probably dishonest) claim. Have you ever been on the Internet? Even with Lansdowne Live, the prevalence of claims that this is a big box development goes to show that people readily lap up horse shit with little critical thinking.

^^^^ This.

What are the factors that are not being taken into consideration? What accurate and correct information would you like to include?

Virtually anything from the official reports, along with official concepts. Trash like what you posted is simply false and not helpful. Not to mention poorly done.

Do you have access to a street-level view of the back of the movie theatre? Thought not. So, in the absence of such, and given my animosity towards said mega-cinema, I will produce such representations as I see fit.

First, actually, there is one. I'm just trying to find it right now.

EDIT: Still haven't found the exact one I'm looking for, but I did however find this presentation that gives several concepts and details about the future housing units on Holmwood (page 46).

http://ottawa.ca/cs/groups/content/@webottawa/documents/pdf/mdaw/mdu1/~edisp/con057183.pdf

Also, does anyone have by any chance the concept I'm looking for? It's from the new concept release, and gives an example of the pathway that connects the townhomes along Holmwood to the Lansdowne site.

Second, so you basically just admitted that you'd rather make shit up as you go along. You're terrible.

Frankly much of what OSEG has provided by way of visuals all along have been misleading. First there's an amateur soccer field, and then there isn't. Then there's a public square west of the Aberdeen Pavilion, and then "poof" there isn't.

You realize that naturally happens because A) they're only concepts and B) public input and/or problems force them to reconsider certain options, right?

[concernedottawa]

Originally Posted by jaydog0212

My real big concern if Landsdown does not happen that will be the end of the Glebe in many ways you would see many stores move to other areas such as the market etc.

I concur that the development of the site is here and now. I do not concur that the local businesses will suffer if the vision is scaled back. In the contrary, local retail business will suffer if it goes ahead, though that cannot be said for restaurants/bars. It will not be until the final release of illustrations and costing ( September/October )will there be something to actually specifically debate. It is still very much a work in progress. The framework of a partnership will not change. Once the final vision and cost to the City are released the partners more than likely will change. Alternatively, the current proponents will be asked to anti up substantially more than what they are currently offering. The result of such a demand for a better deal will return the matter back to examining a change in partners. There is a massive imbalance at the moment heavily in favour of the current private partners. Politicians are answerable to their public. A correction in one manner or another will of necessity, have to take place.

[jaydog0212]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

I concur that the development of the site is here and now. I do not concur that the local businesses will suffer if the vision is scaled back. In the contrary, local retail business will suffer if it goes ahead, though that cannot be said for restaurants/bars. It will not be until the final release of illustrations and costing ( September/October )will there be something to actually specifically debate. It is still very much a work in progress. The framework of a partnership will not change. Once the final vision and cost to the City are released the partners more than likely will change. Alternatively, the current proponents will be asked to anti up substantially more than what they are currently offering. The result of such a demand for a better deal will return the matter back to examining a change in partners. There is a massive imbalance at the moment heavily in favour of the current private partners. Politicians are answerable to their public. A correction in one manner or another will of necessity, have to take place.

If there is no more arenas as well as other places there will be little reason for people to make a trip to the Glebe it would go from a entertainment/shopping hub to a housing community with not much else.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

^^^^ This.
Virtually anything from the official reports, along with official concepts. Trash like what you posted is simply false and not helpful. Not to mention poorly done.

First, actually, there is one. I'm just trying to find it right now.

EDIT: Still haven't found the exact one I'm looking for, but I did however find this presentation that gives several concepts and details about the future housing units on Holmwood (page 46).

http://ottawa.ca/cs/groups/content/@webottawa/documents/pdf/mdaw/mdu1/~edisp/con057183.pdf

Also, does anyone have by any chance the concept I'm looking for? It's from the new concept release, and gives an example of the pathway that connects the townhomes along Holmwood to the Lansdowne site.

Second, so you basically just admitted that you'd rather make shit up as you go along. You're terrible.

You realize that naturally happens because A) they're only concepts and B) public input and/or problems force them to reconsider certain options, right?

I fully admit that I am "making shit up."

This is in part because neither OSEG nor Empire Theatres have released a 3D model so people can see for themselves what the elevations will be from street level all around the projected site area.

And also because I think it is important to emphasize that there will be a big honkin mega-plex there. Whether or not there are some shitty Minto townhouses in front of it or not, there will still be a 6-8 storey blank wall behind it, blocking out much of the view of the Aberdeen Pavilion that has been visible for 117 years.

OSEG/City/Architects are always keen to provide pretty pictures of what everything will look like, but they always carefully select the vantage points to put their plans in the best light.

However, lets use Empire's Orleans megaplex as an example of the artistic representation and the reality in the harsh light of day.

Lovely artist's depiction:


Actual picture:


Now, if we take the pic of the proposed Lansdowne Empire:


I can only imagine what the reality will look like.
Which is what I did. In fact, I also included the front view facing north, which it won't so it will be even more hideous looking at the backside.

[concernedottawa]

Originally Posted by jaydog0212

If there is no more arenas as well as other places there will be little reason for people to make a trip to the Glebe it would go from a entertainment/shopping hub to a housing community with not much else.

The hub of sports and entertainment will not change, just the deal for the City in terms of public access/use and taxpayer benefit. At the current vision of roughly 850,000 sqft, no surface parking and no major artery access prospects of a hub are, generously speaking, unrealistic. Two things have to change, scale and benefit.

[Ottawan]

[alecz_dad]

Bravo Ottawan! Well parried. Though I have no idea what the f$#! you're saying.

For your edification; a before view of the Aberdeen Pavilion at sunset (please disregard trees in left foreground as they are no longer blocking the view, or providing shade, wildlife habitat, oxygen, pleasure, etc.) Be sure to come have a look before this view is gone forever!

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

The hub of sports and entertainment will not change, just the deal for the City in terms of public access/use and taxpayer benefit. At the current vision of roughly 850,000 sqft, no surface parking and no major artery access prospects of a hub are, generously speaking, unrealistic. Two things have to change, scale and benefit.

Testify, brother!

Scale: Excessive.
Prime beneficiaries: OSEG billionaires and mere millionaires (the 1% you might say)
Key losers: Ottawa taxpayers on the hook for hundreds of millions, giving public land away for $1/yr. for a ho-hum mall and promises of a return to sporting glory.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by jaydog0212

If there is no more arenas as well as other places there will be little reason for people to make a trip to the Glebe it would go from a entertainment/shopping hub to a housing community with not much else.

Can't say I've noticed that. Despite the absence of the less-said-about-them-the-better-Renegades, I haven't noticed any tumbleweeds rolling down the sidewalks along Bank Street.

Now, because the City gave a sweetheart deal to Shenkman Corp (oh yeah, tax-dodger billionaire Bill Shenkman is one of the OSEG amigos) to build the CE Centre by the Airport - even before Council has its final approval to the Lansdowne Partnership - then any remaining revenues from trade shows at Lansdowne has been snuffed out. Very convenient. Very cozy.


If the City did indeed put too many of its eggs in the one basket, and the LPP crashes on takeoff, then the City really will have taken away any role for it as an entertainment/consumer show hub.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Bravo Ottawan! Well parried. Though I have no idea what the f$#! you're saying.

Study this, then look at my post again, and I'm sure you'll understand what I was getting at.

For your edification; a before view of the Aberdeen Pavilion at sunset (please disregard trees in left foreground as they are no longer blocking the view, or providing shade, wildlife habitat, oxygen, pleasure, etc.) Be sure to come have a look before this view is gone forever!

Quite some trees! Of course, the greenspace which will replace most of the parking lot that currently takes up the site will in no way compensate for their loss.

For a while I admired the tenacity of opponents to this project. Now their arguments and methods merely speak to me of desperation and undue obsession.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

^^^^ This.

First, actually, there is one. I'm just trying to find it right now.

EDIT: Still haven't found the exact one I'm looking for, but I did however find this presentation that gives several concepts and details about the future housing units on Holmwood (page 46).

Also, does anyone have by any chance the concept I'm looking for? It's from the new concept release, and gives an example of the pathway that connects the townhomes along Holmwood to the Lansdowne site.

Dear JamSandwich,

I'm WAITING... No luck finding that view?

Too bad they just can't keep the visuals up-to-date.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by Ottawan

Study this, then look at my post again, and I'm sure you'll understand what I was getting at.

Quite some trees! Of course, the greenspace which will replace most of the parking lot that currently takes up the site will in no way compensate for their loss.

For a while I admired the tenacity of opponents to this project. Now their arguments and methods merely speak to me of desperation and undue obsession.

Gee, I actually just thought it was almost a non-sequitur or visual pun. Rather than a particularly cogent argument - no I do not think that Minto's translucent buildings are REALLY in danger of blue Angry Birds attack, DUH! - it just occurred to me that those who propose glass buildings had better watch out, lest they attract Angry Birds!

As for the trees. What harm would there have been in leaving them alone?
Yes, there will be more trees planted, but the lovely, leafy views we see in the OSEG video will not exist for another generation, since they are not replacing the mature trees cut in Sylvia Holden Park with other mature trees, but rather with saplings. So, don't expect much shade in the "New Lansdowne" any time soon.
Instead, they're trading a baking asphalt desert for a grassy one.

I also think that the fact that at the same time as Sylvia Holden Park was created, on Mayor Jim Watson ver 1.0's watch, it would have been possible to do much more to green the rest of Lansdowne.

"Anything is better than the sea of asphalt" has been the rallying cry of the OSEG-supporters, but perhaps a more appropriate way to view the current conditions it is that that sea of asphalt is the embodied legacy of Mayor Jim 1.0's failure.

You say you admired the tenacity of the critics of the Lansdowne scheme, but no longer.
I would hope that you could understand that as the momentum of the OSEG PR-machine and the oppressive concensus of the local mainstream media has progressively steamrollered any consideration of the concerns of Lansdowne's neighbours, and of the quite reasonable objections and nettlesome questions they persist in raising about the plan, that it is quite understandable that a tone of desperation would creep in. In the face of proponents with near unlimited resources, the opponents to the Lansdowne Live scheme have put up an honourable fight against this particular Goliath.

OSEG and the City have masterfully framed the public debate such that the concerns of Lansdowne's neighbours have been belittled and marginalized. But perhaps if there had been more respect for their concerns from the outset, instead of simply revealing the scheme cooked-up in LarryO's backrooms as a fait accompli at the City's laughable "consultations," then maybe critics would have been more likely to engage in more constructive discussions.

however, the last laugh may well come when the tenants that OSEG presumed would flock to the Lansdowne Mall, balk, aware of the extremely hard feelings of many of the consumers living immediately adjacent to Lansdowne, who would be the customers that would keep businesses going during lean times.