Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

City gears up to unveil long-awaited bike sharing plan
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/254773/city-gears-up-to-unveil-long-awaited-bike-sharing-plan/

Good news. As long as the City (ie. the taxpayer) is not footing any part of the bill for this, then why not give it a try.

[Homer000]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

City gears up to unveil long-awaited bike sharing plan
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/254773/city-gears-up-to-unveil-long-awaited-bike-sharing-plan/

I wonder what kind of shifts in the ways of commuting we will see in the future, especially if we take in the account the plans about new bike lanes in Vancouver.

Anyways, thumbs up for the bike sharing plan!

[whatnext]

Are they going to have a public naming contest? I nominate Freebiju (short for Free Bikes for Junkies).

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by IanS

As long as the City (ie. the taxpayer) is not footing any part of the bill for this, then why not give it a try.

When a city is as heavily involved and invested in the implementation and success of this "enterprise" as this city council is, then it inevitably creates a liability for the taxpayers. What if the company can't make a go of it, especially considering that the province has made it illegal to not wear a helmet (a problem which has no economically viable resolution as of yet)? Do you think this city council will allow a project in which its ideological reputation is so heavily invested to fail?

The taxpayers are already liable for providing "space for stations, marketing and communications support, and permitting support and costs." It will be just a matter of time before the taxpayers will be directly subsidizing operating costs as well.

[logan5]

Here's what they are seriously considering building in Melbourne.

• Video Link

It's 2 km of elevated bicycle freeway above Downtown Melbourne. The cost to build is $20 million; the per km cost of $10 million/km is 1/10 the cost of an elevated rt line. With very low operating costs and low maintenance costs, this represents a cost per passenger that would be far lower than most of our transit services (apparently the Expo Line makes a profit). A 20 km cycling express-way could be built in Vancouver for probably around $100 million (as most of it would not be elevated).

A traffic light/intersection free route into DT Vancouver would certainly attract far more than the 6000 riders per day that utilize the Burrard St. Bridge and the 2000 riders per day that use the Dunsmuir viaduct.

[easy as pie]

you realize that this is built on existing train infrastructure, right? it literally counldn't happen in vancouver.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

you realize that this is built on existing train infrastructure, right? it literally counldn't happen in vancouver.

It is built beside existing train infrastructure, and you don't necessarily have to build it beside existing train infrastructure.

[easy as pie]

you do if you want it to cost next to nothing.

[logan5]

They would be building a whole new guideway in Melbourne, not throwing bikes on the same guideway that trains run on.

To put $10 million/km into perspective, the C Line, tunnels, bridges, elevated sections, rolling stock and all for $110 million/km. The 2.5 km bored tunnel section of the Canada Line - the more expensive method - cost $55 million/km for the tunnel and stations with just the bare concrete lining.

An elevated bike lane would cost significantly less.

[juniorpnm]

Originally Posted by logan5

Here's what they are seriously considering building in Melbourne.

• Video Link

It's 2 km of elevated bicycle freeway above Downtown Melbourne. The cost to build is $20 million; the per km cost of $10 million/km is 1/10 the cost of an elevated rt line. With very low operating costs and low maintenance costs, this represents a cost per passenger that would be far lower than most of our transit services (apparently the Expo Line makes a profit). A 20 km cycling express-way could be built in Vancouver for probably around $100 million (as most of it would not be elevated).

A traffic light/intersection free route into DT Vancouver would certainly attract far more than the 6000 riders per day that utilize the Burrard St. Bridge and the 2000 riders per day that use the Dunsmuir viaduct.

Essentially this just a dedicated bike greenway - we already have the seawall and the on-street separated cycle lanes.

I could see something similar built east of Canada Place - an extension of the seawall over/around the railway track.

One of my favourite places in Vancouver is Waterfront Road from below Canada Place to Portside Park - the seawall could and should be extended through this area to increase its vitality.

[huenthar]

Well they're considering demolishing Granville Square and connecting Granville to Waterfront when they go ahead with the Waterfront Transit Hub development (in like 20 years), I'm sure a bike lane would be part of that

[tybuilding]

The Greenway plan is being presented to Surrey City council tonight. Surrey is planning a large network of off road paved trails across the city.

http://www.surrey.ca/plans-strategies/3114.aspx


Greenways in Surrey
Building Individual and Community Connections Through Greenways

Greenways are multi-use pathways for pedestrians, cyclists and other non-motorized users. Greenways provide Surrey residents with an opportunity to walk or cycle to destinations within their community and throughout the city.

They promote active living and encourage the transition to more sustainable methods of transportation. Surrey's greenways 'knit together' the green fabric of parks in the City, and provide physical connections throughout the community.

[jlousa]

Well here's the lastest in the Bike share project, Looks like it'll be Alta. Reading the presentation it seems quite weak compared to most city reports, also it wasn't released until just now the day of the council meeting which isn't like the city. Looks like they are aiming for 1500 in 125 stations and only the area around d/t and the Broadway corridor.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20120613/documents/ptec1presentation.pdf

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Well here's the lastest in the Bike share project, Looks like it'll be Alta. Reading the presentation it seems quite weak compared to most city reports, also it wasn't released until just now the day of the council meeting which isn't like the city. Looks like they are aiming for 1500 in 125 stations and only the area around d/t and the Broadway corridor.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20120613/documents/ptec1presentation.pdf

The Report was a bit confusing (to me, at least) on the funding issue. I thought it was made pretty clear that the City (ie. the taxpayer) wouldn't be footing the bill for this. The Report seems to suggest otherwise. Am I misreading it? If this thing is going to be paid for by the taxpayer, even in part, I think that should be made clear.

Edited to add the quote from the recent Metro article, linked earlier in this thread:

Whoever wins the contract, one thing is certain: They will be footing the bill for the capital and operating costs. The city and TransLink are only going to provide things like space for stations, marketing and communications support, and permitting support and costs.

The Report seems inconsistent with that, in that it suggests that the taxpayers will be funding at least some of the capital costs.

I also found it interesting that theft and vandalism were not considered to be risks. Seems optimistic. Still, as long as the City (ie. the taxpayer) isn't paying for the system, I don't much care one way or other.

[st7860]

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Vancouve...g+business+plan+build/6777978/story.html


Vancouver’s controversial separated bike lanes were made permanent Wednesday but city council decided against a downtown business proposal to spend an extra $2.5 million to put in some right turn lanes.

The bike lanes, which separate bicycles from vehicle along Hornby and Dunsmuir streets and along the Dunsmuir Viaduct were put in at a cost of $4.1 million. Their aim is to give cyclists a safe route through the downtown core, and connect to the Seawall and Stanley Park.



-lol I was laughing and almost rolling all over the floor when I read this funny comment. he should learn how to use translink!

8:06 AM on 6/14/2012
I also stopped going down town to shop simply due to these bike lanes. Soon downtown will be one big ghost town as a huge percentage of folks like me just will not go and deal with these bike lane that are empty . Business will close and its Moonbeams fault. I now shop locally on the North Shore. Also I drive across the Burrard daily at rush hour to go to work and those bike lanes are never very busy.

[WarrenC12]

Not a surprise of course. But interesting how the the lobby groups cry foul when the city spends $4m on some bike lanes, and again when the city doesn't spend another $2.5m to help a limited number of businesses out with a questionable project.

[easy as pie]

Originally Posted by st7860

8:06 AM on 6/14/2012
I also stopped going down town to shop simply due to these bike lanes. Soon downtown will be one big ghost town as a huge percentage of folks like me just will not go and deal with these bike lane that are empty . Business will close and its Moonbeams fault. I now shop locally on the North Shore. Also I drive across the Burrard daily at rush hour to go to work and those bike lanes are never very busy.

this sounds like it was pulled directly from the forums here, maybe a year or so ago.

[dreambrother808]

No businesses have closed along the bike lanes as far as I can see, other than some of the usual turnover on the difficult retail areas of Hornby. Another fear-mongering argument that's proven to be hollow.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

No businesses have closed along the bike lanes as far as I can see, other than some of the usual turnover on the difficult retail areas of Hornby. Another fear-mongering argument that's proven to be hollow.

I have no idea whether businesses in that area have been harmed or have closed as a result of the bike lanes, but do you really think your off the cuff observation is proof that they haven 't been?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by IanS

I have no idea whether businesses in that area have been harmed or have closed as a result of the bike lanes, but do you really think your off the cuff observation is proof that they haven 't been?

My off the cuff observation is that businesses open and close all the time, especially downtown. If there's no specific increase in those areas over the long term average turnover, they are just playing the blame game.