Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[RC14]

I'm sitting on a blue line train to SLC, they just told us there has been an accident at 1700 south and to expect delays. Just FYI in case anyone is planning on taking TRAX.

[stayinginformed]

I drove on North Temple last night, and noticed that they put the red to orange poles up at the Jackson/Euclid Station. They were paving the road between Redwood and 1000 West, and the overhead lines are up from the airport to the Fairpark Station. They are also working on the sidewalks between 700 and 800 West on both the north and south side of the road. We are getting really close to completion of the TRAX line.

[tygr]

Since Mountain View Corridor will ultimately have termini junctions at interstates, does anyone know why they chose not to use a numbering that allows it to easily become an official spur/bypass/alternative to, say I-15? Why did they go with "SR 85" instead of "SR 415" with the long range goal of it being an official circumferential freeway to I-15? Will it never be able to meet Interstate Highway Standards?

Clark County in Las Vegas Valley built/reserved space for a looping highway in the early 2000s, and with little/no federal funding, they called it "CC 215" with the intentions that it would eventually become their I-215; connecting to the I-15 to Henderson portion that is already I-215. This reduces any confusion when the official implementation happens; locals and visitors aren't confused by changing number designations.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think that when visitors see a "triple digit" version of an interstate, they know that it might offer a bypass or alternative that could provide a quicker route to their destination. Example: When MVC is complete, and someone is traveling between Denver and San Francisco, if they see "I-415" instead of "SR 85" for MVC, they may look to see if that would avoid a potentially congested I-15 mainline. I know when I'm travelling, I look for "triple digit" options. Even if it said "SR 415," I would know what the eventual plan was and that it might be a limited access highway until then.

Even if it never becomes an official alternative to I-15, numbering it "SR 415" could still have the same effects as the ideal "I-415." It can still be called MVC.

My same question applies also to SR 201 (21st South Freeway), Legacy Parkway, the proposed "Legacy North" through Davis/Weber counties as well as Southern Parkway in St. George that will eventually end in Hurricane. Wouldn't it make sense to number them for their possibility of becoming an official part of the Interstate Highway System?

Sorry this was a little long winded, but a little insight from fellow forum'ers would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!

[Reachforthesky]

Originally Posted by tygr

Since Mountain View Corridor will ultimately have termini junctions at interstates, does anyone know why they chose not to use a numbering that allows it to easily become an official spur/bypass/alternative to, say I-15? Why did they go with "SR 85" instead of "SR 415" with the long range goal of it being an official circumferential freeway to I-15? Will it never be able to meet Interstate Highway Standards?

Clark County in Las Vegas Valley built/reserved space for a looping highway in the early 2000s, and with little/no federal funding, they called it "CC 215" with the intentions that it would eventually become their I-215; connecting to the I-15 to Henderson portion that is already I-215. This reduces any confusion when the official implementation happens; locals and visitors aren't confused by changing number designations.

Maybe I'm off base, but I think that when visitors see a "triple digit" version of an interstate, they know that it might offer a bypass or alternative that could provide a quicker route to their destination. Example: When MVC is complete, and someone is traveling between Denver and San Francisco, if they see "I-415" instead of "SR 85" for MVC, they may look to see if that would avoid a potentially congested I-15 mainline. I know when I'm travelling, I look for "triple digit" options. Even if it said "SR 415," I would know what the eventual plan was and that it might be a limited access highway until then.

Even if it never becomes an official alternative to I-15, numbering it "SR 415" could still have the same effects as the ideal "I-415." It can still be called MVC.

My same question applies also to SR 201 (21st South Freeway), Legacy Parkway, the proposed "Legacy North" through Davis/Weber counties as well as Southern Parkway in St. George that will eventually end in Hurricane. Wouldn't it make sense to number them for their possibility of becoming an official part of the Interstate Highway System?

Sorry this was a little long winded, but a little insight from fellow forum'ers would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!

I totally agree with you! I've often wondered why UDOT doesn't pursue new interstates in Utah? I mean how much harder is it to do? When SR 85 is completed, based on plans, it looks like it will be a full, up to interstate standard freeway. So why not take on the much more official title of interstate instead of making it a SR "State freeway". I agree that what Las Vegas did was smart! great planning to become a future part of I215 and out of state travelers will have an easier time because the numbering. Same should be done with SR 85.

Another thing also, if we make freeways in Utah that are Signed with SR designation, how are travelers suppose to know its a freeway?? Its a guarantee that an "I" anything is a freeway (except for I-180 in Cheyenne) but not so with a SR, because SR's are for the most part,just surface roads. So how is a traveler to know if a road like SR 67 Legacy Parkway, Is a freeway?? Especially when there is no signage or anything indicating that it is. I mean UDOT calls it a "parkway?" I know its a fancy freeway with aesthetics galore... but, how many freeways do you know of that are called " ----- parkway" if I didn't live here I'd probably think that Legacy Parkway was just a surface street based on name alone. So I really think that the "I"/Interstate designation should be used with Utah's new freeways...or in Legacy Parkways case at least "Legacy Freeway" should be used.(Im not sure if Legacy meets the interstate standard fully,due to its walking/bike trails,etc.)
As for SR 201, it's mostly up to freeway standards except towards its western terminus where it converts to expressway. Is that ever going to be converted to full freeway? I hope so! What would be a good "I-Blank" name for that freeway? It'd be a spur right? maybe I-180?

I like you're idea to call SR 85 I-415!

I also think that one day it would be cool to see Bangerter converted to a freeway and if it was converted, before SR 85, we could make Bangerter I-415 and SR 85: I-615. That way we'd have perfect loop/bypass freeways following order after I-215. I don't know just some ideas!

[tygr]

Reachforthesky

While I was composing my post, I nearly did suggest that Bangerter should be numbered "SR 415" and MVC "SR 615" until those roads could be admitted into the "I-XXX" interstate system. I know that Bangerter may take a whole lot of tweaking to ever become a full-on freeway and may never reach that state. If they did name MVC as "SR 415," if/when Bangerter ever does reach freeway standards it could still be called "I-315" in the end (unless UDOT doesn't use it somewhere else (Legacy, Southern Parkway, etc.).

Because of the lawsuit with the Sierra Club and/or similar organizations, Legacy Highway as it was going to be called, had to be renamed Legacy Parkway with a speed limit of 55 and no large vehicles. I am unaware of whether that is permanent or if it is only agreed upon for a set number of years. Everything about that highway is fully up to freeway standards and built with the ability to add lanes without replacing/modifying any overhead bridges.

I agree that SR 201 (21st South Freeway) should be I-180.

Here's my proposal of how some state roads should be numbered with the goal for them to receive the "I" designation. As such, the state should avoid numbering roads that have no hopes of becoming a freeway using 15, 80, 84, or any leading number before those numbers. If they never reach "I" status, then there's no harm no foul.

• SR 180 instead of SR 201—21st South Freeway
• SR 315 instead of SR 154—Bangerter Highway
• SR 415 instead of SR 85—Mountain View Corridor
• SR 615 instead of SR 67—Legacy Parkway (including the proposed West Davis/Weber freeway)
• SR 815 instead of SR 7—Southern Parkway (Bloomington to Hurricane)
• US 89 from Farmington to I-84 will eventually become a freeway and "I-515" could be applied at that time (since it is a US highway).

I know that larger cities have freeways that don't use the "I" designation, but at the very least they call them freeways. Maybe UDOT should use a similar naming convention to this.

• West Valley Freeway instead of 21st South Freeway
• Lake Shore Freeway instead of Legacy Parkway (when the northern extension is added)
• Valley View Freeway (when US 89 from Farmington to So. Ogden is fully upgraded)
• CountyLemonade's (May 29, 10:30pm) proposed connection between I-215 and MVC could become Bennion Freeway as it replaces most of Bennion Blvd. (6200 S).
• and as others become freeways, they are labeled such (maybe that's already the plan).

My point is to help visitors and new residents/drivers know what roads are not "surface roads" and likely the quickest routes.

To me, the term "Highway" indicates possible limited access, and/or high capacity but contains some traffic lights. "Parkway" conjures the thought of limited access, slower speeds, and tree lined shoulders and medians. But I would never guess that a road with either name has only freeway interchanges.

Sorry for the lengthy posts. I just feel that we should be forward thinking in every decision we make so less adjustment is necessary later.

[stayinginformed]

The red to orange poles at the Fairpark/Euclid TRAX Station.

[Future Mayor]

Just a note on the interstate three digit numbering system. Even numbers such as 215, 415, etc are highways that circumvent the main artery, while odd numbers such as 180, or 315, are highways that bring traffic directly into the city core.

I would estimate that 201, if every fully converted to a freeway, could potentially be a 180 or 380, but Bangerter and MVC would definetly be even number freeways.

A nearby examply of this is Las Vegas. The freeway from Henderson directly into downtown Vegas is, is the I-515, closest to downtown. While the belt loop that avoids downtown is 215.

[arkhitektor]

I noticed the other day the MVC shows up on google maps now:



....sort of a 'road to nowhere' for the time being. It will be interesting to see how useful the new highway will be until it connects to I-15 or I-80 in the future.

[tygr]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I noticed the other day the MVC shows up on google maps now:

....sort of a 'road to nowhere' for the time being. It will be interesting to see how useful the new highway will be until it connects to I-15 or I-80 in the future.

Kind of premature if you think about it. Most of what is on the map is incomplete or nonexistent; definitely not useable by the public.

[RC14]

Tygr, I love your idea for the freedway numbering system. The only thing I would add is, I think Legacy parkway should be a continuation of I-215, although I don't know what they would call I-215 between legacy and I-15.

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by tygr

Kind of premature if you think about it. Most of what is on the map is incomplete or nonexistent; definitely not useable by the public.

I'm guessing that it is a mistake that has something to do with the small section in Herriman that opens tomorrow....

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Just a note on the interstate three digit numbering system. Even numbers such as 215, 415, etc are highways that circumvent the main artery, while odd numbers such as 180, or 315, are highways that bring traffic directly into the city core.

Not exactly. Basically, three-digit Interstates that spur off of the main Interstate and do not reconnect to a freeway begin with an odd number (and most of those spurs do go to the city center, like I-184, but I-540 in Arkansas is an example of one that does not). Three-digit Interstates that begin and end at a freeway begin with an even number. If SR-201 were upgraded to freeway standards all the way through, and it were converted from a state route to an Interstate, then it would be an even-numbered three-digit Interstate because it begins at I-15/I-80 and ends at I-80.

As for making SR-85/SR-67 Interstate highways, this discussion took place on the AARoads forum about the reasons why Interstate designations may not be pursued. Essentially, there are fewer regulations to go through when building a state route freeway as compared to building an Interstate freeway.

[Reachforthesky]

I posted this over on the SLC main developement page. I thought i'd bring it over here since It has a lot to do with transportation too.

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

On another note,

Do you guys want to see what Downtown Salt Lake City looked like back in 1953? Or maybe 1965?

http://www.historicaerials.com/

What an AWESOME site! Thanks for sharing!! I've honestly been on for hours now looking all over SLC. Downtown sadly lost many great structures just so ugly parking lots could be built over the years I had no idea how many houses were demolished just for I-15 to be built. I guess I always thought that that land west of Downtown/train tracks, was undeveloped in 1958 but after looking at this site I can see that's not the case. Same for the east segment of I-80.

There were so many neighborhoods torn up for 1-15 and It makes you wonder why they chose the route they did in western SLC? I would've tried to put I-15 as close as I could to the Union Pacific building as possible.

I also wonder why I-15 and I-80 are elevated freeways or " Eastside Westside barricades" in the valley. Anyone know why UDOT decided to use a bunch of fill and build the freeway up on high land? It seems like much of I-15 and I-80 through the Salt Lake Valley is raised above ground like a wall spliting the valley in half. Any idea why this was done? You'd think it would be easier to build a freeway on the flat land that was already there... Then looking at the I-215 eastern base, it looks like the land was flat there in the beginning but eventually carved out for a sunken freeway.

This site does a great job showcasing what the valley looked like for us folks who weren't alive for much of the development of SLC. After looking at the multiple years on the site its easy to see how the SLC proper's population declined. Sprawl took over the Valley like wildfire. Suburban subdivisions popped up all over the county! No wonder SLC proper has never reached more than its 1960 pop. of 189,454. There are so many dang suburbs in Salt Lake county that they steal much of the population away from the City. I mean SLC's population was doubling,sometimes quadrupling every 10 years! Then came the 60's and all the Sprawl, and we've had a rollercoaster population ever since. Its like SLC had a mini Detroit situation on its hands with all the urban decay.

It bothers me that there is a judgement made by retailers and others who don't know our unique population ordeal, and look at the city propers population and say " this place is too small for us" when in fact 2.5 million live in the Urban area and over 1 million live in the county alone. Salt Lake City's numbers are very deceiving to the unfamiliar.

Luckily, the mid 90's-early 2000's put a dent in the sprawl (in addition to the valley running low on development space), and SLC'S population has risen from its grave. 50 or so years later, here we are in 2012 and we are yet to reach the highest population SLC's ever had (circa 1960) but we are real close! Thank goodness for Downtown housing development, CCC, Trax, renewed intrest in Downtown living, and the economy, people are being lured back to the city. I think SLC's finally fixed their flat tire and we can begin going freeway speeds again!


Another thing I noticed was that today the viaducts into SLC have been shortened down to where they were in 1958. I had no idea they stretched into town as much as they did in the 70's. Just look at 4th south, that viaduct went all the way to 3rd west, right next to pioneer park. Its a good thing thats changed today. I think that would've only added to the shady business and drug deals happening in the park. I would love to see ground level pictures of the 4th, 5th, and 6th South neighborhoods in the 1970's if anyone has any?

[DCRes]

If i remember right, the 55MPH, only two lanes each way, and no truck restrictions on Legacy were to be in place for at least 15 years. I'm pulling that straight from memory so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[StevenF]

deleted

[skyguy414]

TRAX ridership up 34% in 2012, second largest increase in nation

ksl.com

SALT LAKE CITY — Coast to coast, more and more Americans are ditching their car keys in favor of a light rail pass, and Salt Lake City is on board.

The Utah Transit Authority reports Salt Lake City had the nation's second biggest increase in ridership for light rail in the country in the first three months of 2012. Comparing the first quarter of this year to the same time frame a year ago, TRAX ridership was up 34.1 percent, second only to Memphis at 45.7 percent. The increase in Frontrunner ridership was in the top ten nationwide for commuter rail, at 8.5 percent, ninth in the country.

Full article: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=20697431...largest-increase-in-nation&s_cid=queue-6

[chad.farnes]

Originally Posted by skyguy414

TRAX ridership up 34% in 2012, second largest increase in nation

ksl.com

SALT LAKE CITY — Coast to coast, more and more Americans are ditching their car keys in favor of a light rail pass, and Salt Lake City is on board.

The Utah Transit Authority reports Salt Lake City had the nation's second biggest increase in ridership for light rail in the country in the first three months of 2012. Comparing the first quarter of this year to the same time frame a year ago, TRAX ridership was up 34.1 percent, second only to Memphis at 45.7 percent. The increase in Frontrunner ridership was in the top ten nationwide for commuter rail, at 8.5 percent, ninth in the country.

Full article: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=20697431...largest-increase-in-nation&s_cid=queue-6

So I could be wrong, but I think that TRAX may have actually decreased in ridership, at least compared to Q4 of 2011. If you look at the 2012 Q1 report, http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2012-q1-ridership-APTA.pdf, TRAX has about 57,200 boardings a day. If you look on page 209, it stated that TRAX had 59,100 in Q4 of 2011. Sorry for throwing a negative light on it. I think that the big increase compared to last year is due to the opening of the two new lines. Lets just hope that the new airport line will add as dramatic of an increase for next year, if not bigger!

[StevenF]

I wonder if the numbers from the street car line will added in with the LRT numbers when its finished?

[chad.farnes]

Although on a good note after my gloomy post, if you look at the graph on pg 209 it looks like the ridership in Q1 always decreased after Q4. So I guess this last quarter doesn't stray too far from the previous trends.

[CountyLemonade]

Yeah, when I saw the 34% figure I thought, "Whoa! TRAX is up to 77,000 a day? Cause for celebration." But no.

I messaged the UTA about it on Facebook earlier today; I had also noticed that ridership had declined slightly this quarter, compared with last quarter. Apparently, the percent increase compares Q1 2011 with Q1 2012. According to the UTA's social media rep, ridership typically decreases slightly during this time. But I was hoping we could have seen an increase now that the Red and Green lines had been firmly established.

But I hope to goodness that it didn't decrease because of all the incidents involving TRAX. I really, really, really hope it didn't.

Here's hoping that we can hit 100,000 on TRAX and 20,000 on FrontRunner by 2020.