Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[SpongeG]

this is another dumb question I am trying to save some money - if i buy a one zone bus pass but i need to travel two zones can i do an add-fare thing? and if so how do i do it?

i need to travel two zones to work in the morning but since i finish at 8 pm when its only a one zone cost i don't wanna pay the extra for a two zone bus pass... currently just buying two zone fare saver tickets and using cash to get home but i think a pass would be better

[nname]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this is another dumb question I am trying to save some money - if i buy a one zone bus pass but i need to travel two zones can i do an add-fare thing? and if so how do i do it?

i need to travel two zones to work in the morning but since i finish at 8 pm when its only a one zone cost i don't wanna pay the extra for a two zone bus pass... currently just buying two zone fare saver tickets and using cash to get home but i think a pass would be better

On a bus, you just have to tell the driver and pay the $1.25 add-fare. I think most driver would override the machine and give you a full 2 zones ticket instead of just the add-fare (not sure about this). On a SkyTrain station, just select the add-fare without a magnet strip option. This will actually produce an invalid ticket for some reason, but you'll be fine when you show your fare card to the driver after the machine beeps.

Note that the add-fare would have the same 90 minutes expiry time as regular tickets.

[usog]

So the building next to the Edmonds OMC has been cleared out for a while, any reason for that?

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by nname

On a bus, you just have to tell the driver and pay the $1.25 add-fare. I think most driver would override the machine and give you a full 2 zones ticket instead of just the add-fare (not sure about this). On a SkyTrain station, just select the add-fare without a magnet strip option. This will actually produce an invalid ticket for some reason, but you'll be fine when you show your fare card to the driver after the machine beeps.

Note that the add-fare would have the same 90 minutes expiry time as regular tickets.

As far as I know the bus fareboxes can't print AddFares, which is why you get issued a 2 zone ticket for 90 minutes on paying. Also why the bus farebox doesn't recognise an AddFare purchased at a SkyTrain TVM.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by st7860

You didn't know that UBC and SFU have lots of market housing?

But by far they don't make up the majority of users, now do they? The point I was making is that the U-PASS costs a lot of money for supposed lifetime loyalty from University students, the idea that they're investing in mindshare.

I'd cut a program like that before I disenfranchised the ones that need help most. What does this program cost? If it costed a lot of money, it likely would've made the newspapers. This sudden cancellation of this service is poorly planned and executed.

Even cutting some unprofitable suburban bus routes would be a better option, it would seem.

I agree with mezzanine though that it's not translink's job. However, the BC government doesn't seem to want anything to do with transit in Vancouver at all. It seems they like to wash their hands of it.

@SpongeG. Perhaps a stupid suggestion... but why not look into buying books of 1-zone tickets and books of two-zone tickets. Use the appropriate one each way on your trip. If you don't use transit outside of commuting, this is your most flexible and best option.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

That sounds good in theory, but much harder in practice. Its easy to say it just by looking at Craigslist but even if such a place exists, no guarantee you (or Mac Write) will get it, otherwise we would have done so already.

So can you actually link me to such places near Joyce Station? Or set me up with such a place because I'd love to avail of such rents right now near Skytrain (long story but Dylan knows... )

Sounds like st would love to hook you up with a place.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

But by far they don't make up the majority of users, now do they? The point I was making is that the U-PASS costs a lot of money for supposed lifetime loyalty from University students, the idea that they're investing in mindshare.

I'd cut a program like that before I disenfranchised the ones that need help most. What does this program cost? If it costed a lot of money, it likely would've made the newspapers. This sudden cancellation of this service is poorly planned and executed.

Even cutting some unprofitable suburban bus routes would be a better option, it would seem.

I agree with mezzanine though that it's not translink's job. However, the BC government doesn't seem to want anything to do with transit in Vancouver at all. It seems they like to wash their hands of it.

@SpongeG. Perhaps a stupid suggestion... but why not look into buying books of 1-zone tickets and books of two-zone tickets. Use the appropriate one each way on your trip. If you don't use transit outside of commuting, this is your most flexible and best option.

if i bought the books of tickets it would cost more than a one zone bus pass - plus i am trapped at home on days off since i don't wanna waste a ticket top go anywhere - my new job is like less than 1/2 what i used to make before - i switched careers but eek how do people live on minimum wage

[st7860]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

But by far they don't make up the majority of users, now do they? The point I was making is that the U-PASS costs a lot of money for supposed lifetime loyalty from University students, the idea that they're investing in mindshare.

I'd cut a program like that before I disenfranchised the ones that need help most. What does this program cost? If it costed a lot of money, it likely would've made the newspapers. This sudden cancellation of this service is poorly planned and executed.

Even cutting some unprofitable suburban bus routes would be a better option, it would seem.

I agree with mezzanine though that it's not translink's job. However, the BC government doesn't seem to want anything to do with transit in Vancouver at all. It seems they like to wash their hands of it.

@SpongeG. Perhaps a stupid suggestion... but why not look into buying books of 1-zone tickets and books of two-zone tickets. Use the appropriate one each way on your trip. If you don't use transit outside of commuting, this is your most flexible and best option.

Supposedly the reason why the UPASS is mandatory is so that they can nail everyone with the upass 'tax' , even people who never ride the buses contribute revenue and so its supposed to work out in the end.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

That sounds good in theory, but much harder in practice. Its easy to say it just by looking at Craigslist but even if such a place exists, no guarantee you (or Mac Write) will get it, otherwise we would have done so already.

So can you actually link me to such places near Joyce Station? Or set me up with such a place because I'd love to avail of such rents right now near Skytrain (long story but Dylan knows... )

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/3027063019.html
$600/mo - 1 bedroom not shared
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/2959224824.html
$700/mo - 1 bedroom not shared

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by st7860

Supposedly the reason why the UPASS is mandatory is so that they can nail everyone with the upass 'tax' , even people who never ride the buses contribute revenue and so its supposed to work out in the end.

That's true however Translink has stated that it was revenue neutral. So whatever the collective student body was paying before is calculated to be the same after. In response, Translink increases service because of the additional students now using the service. So in the end, Translink earns the same as before the Upass but mist increase service. A net loss. It isn't about money though... They are building transit loyalty and creating predicteeable stable revenue streams.

It is supposed to be a win win.

You could say it is small scale socialism. The heavy transit users subsidize the light users. However, a university setting usually is pretty friendly to these egalitarian models and optimistic views of society.

I'm actually a fan of the Upass, however I think the price is a little low.

[Meraki]

The UPass also plants the seed to raise users who view transit on equal footing as a car.

By giving them the pass early, they learn the system and become comfortable with it.

I started school the first year SFU got the UPass and now that these people are starting to graduate, lots have no intention of buying a vehicle even though they're no longer eligible, opting for normal monthly passes instead. I'm one of the people who doesn't plan to buy a car. I'm content with the service I get.

I think if you look at UPass as a way to raise a generation of people not reliant on cars, it's successful and benefits everyone.

[AverageJoe]

It looks like, because of strong opposition, a new round of consultations will be held and TransLink may back off on scrapping the TaxiSavers...

Critics spur TransLink to reconsider scrapping TaxiSavers
http://www.surreyleader.com/news/155847035.html

Originally Posted by Mac Write

At a secret board meeting Translink has decided to axe the TaxiSaver program for the disabled and seniors. This will take effect in July and coupons will not be accepted after June 2013.

What Bull****. I depend on TaxiSavers as the hill from the bus stop to my house is steep and hard for me to walk up. and if it's raining forget it. ALso bus service were I live is 30 minutes daytime hourly after 6:45PM. Translink just says walk the 700m to the station. Uh I can't hence why I am calling to get the time for the bus.

This has produced allot of stress in me since I just found out and now I have to take out of my savings $150 over the next 2 months to purchase the maximum TaxiSavers books allowed per month (2). I am so furious right now!!!

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by AverageJoe

It looks like, because of strong opposition, a new round of consultations will be held and TransLink may back off on scrapping the TaxiSavers...

Critics spur TransLink to reconsider scrapping TaxiSavers
http://www.surreyleader.com/news/155847035.html

The more i think about it, the more i think the current taxi-saver service is flawed.

from the above article:

The coupons for half-price taxi rides were being stockpiled by users, resulting in a growing liability for TransLink, and officials said there was no way to prevent reselling to unauthorized users.

If they are being stockpiled, that would be a natural reflex by users, i would do that too if i was in the program and didn't need the service immediately. but that would suggest that its use by some is less of a necessity but discretionary. one would have to clarify what public good is created by this - originally, taxi-savers were to be used when handi-dart stopped running at 6pm and the general system was far less accessible.

At the very least, taxi savers should be tied in with a personalized compass card (tap in/out with your taxi), with a time limit to use them. We should also clarify eligibility standards.

I would prefer general TL money focused on building the FTN, adding capacity and enhanced handi-dart service.

If we as a society thought we should maintain the taxi-saver program due to special health and disability considerations, that funding should be dedicated from other agencies. (ministry of health? local heath authorities? victoria? a new taxi-tax?)

[Millennium2002]

Agreed with the above. However, very few taxi companies around the world have signed up to any transport card of late it seems... it may be easier with us though and our company-based taxi network, rather than the many individual owners like in some other cities. And indeed, the program should really be run by the province and it's ministry of health aka U-Pass style.

[SpongeG]

i recently finished school and no longer have a u-pass - but a few of my classmates were really not transit users who got the u-pass and used it and said they were surprised how good the transit in vancouver was and would continue to use it for trips even when they no longer have the pass

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Meraki

The UPass also plants the seed to raise users who view transit on equal footing as a car.

I think this is one of the most important reasons to have the UPass program, and it's why you can't judge it solely on it's short-term cost/benefit.

[Zassk]

Regardless of increased service to accommodate U-Pass riders, the U-Pass is designed to be revenue neutral. Increased service doesn't necessarily mean that the program is a financial failure. Any route that needs additional buses to mitigate pass-ups due to U-Pass is probably a profitable route. And any route that has the capacity to absorb U-Pass riders was probably subsidized without them.

[andasen]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Regardless of increased service to accommodate U-Pass riders, the U-Pass is designed to be revenue neutral. Increased service doesn't necessarily mean that the program is a financial failure. Any route that needs additional buses to mitigate pass-ups due to U-Pass is probably a profitable route. And any route that has the capacity to absorb U-Pass riders was probably subsidized without them.

Anyone have the numbers on the 145? I'd suspect that its growth from introduction of the Upass would be where to find the smoke should there be a fire.

[DKaz]

If 60 students on $25/mo UPasses fill up a bus 20 minutes each way 22 days a month and they pay $25 a month, it's basically break even with the operating costs of that bus, assuming $100/hour.

However, a majority of riders are full paying passengers. You're basically helping to utilize more of the space. And rememeber, $25/mo regardless of whether one uses the service or not. For every 100 students paying into the UPass program, 75 may actually use the service regularly or occasionally.

For all these reasons, I have absolutely no problem with the UPass program.

[andasen]

Originally Posted by DKaz

If 60 students on $25/mo UPasses fill up a bus 20 minutes each way 22 days a month and they pay $25 a month, it's basically break even with the operating costs of that bus, assuming $100/hour.

However, a majority of riders are full paying passengers. You're basically helping to utilize more of the space. And rememeber, $25/mo regardless of whether one uses the service or not. For every 100 students paying into the UPass program, 75 may actually use the service regularly or occasionally.

For all these reasons, I have absolutely no problem with the UPass program.

But with the exception of mid day the bus will only be relatively full for half its trip then be barren when if shuttles back up/down the mountain to get the next group. And then it is running an articulated bus until it stops running around 12:30 when all it really needs after 7 is a normal bus.