Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[jlousa]

They will probably reinstate the limit on Hastings to 50km/h and state that capacity has been increased 66% on an alternate route. Not to mention by removing the Jazz Festival from Gastown they've increased capacity there as well due to removal of road closures.

I don't hate the concept, I hate the economics of it, such a waste of precious resources that could've been so much better spent elsewhere.
No one here would argue against removing the Granville loops but they don't seem to be in as big of a rush to do that. Heck they could probably even make a easy case for removing the remaining loop at the south end of the Granville bridge. It's a shame when ideology takes over.

[Metro-One]

Again, I wish all this hype, resources and media attention was instead focussed on getting the tram network off the ground, or removing the dumpsters from downtown and re-purposing several of our allies into social spaces (akin to those in Victoria) or cleaning up all the garbage in our city now.

These would all be far more beneficial to a greater number of people in our city......but sadly no, these are al back burner issues now...

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I don't hate the concept, I hate the economics of it, such a waste of precious resources that could've been so much better spent elsewhere.
No one here would argue against removing the Granville loops but they don't seem to be in as big of a rush to do that. Heck they could probably even make a easy case for removing the remaining loop at the south end of the Granville bridge. It's a shame when ideology takes over.

or building phase 1 of the Street Car line.

or building the Malkin Connector

so many other projects should be higher up the list.


also as I started before seeing the "vision" and still think is ... this will only make Traffic in the Citygate area and Crosstown that much worse both on regular days and majorly so on special event days. I'm interested in seeing the traffic projections ... even if they are rigged will be good to see them.

[Stingray2004]

Well this is a new one... "Georgia Street Option" - "On-Street Dedicated Bike Lanes"

That's the main traffic artery in downtown Vancouver!

Again, BOTH Georgia Street AND the Georgia Street Viaduct are part of Translink's MRN and it AIN'T gonna happen.

The CoV cannot either remove the Georgia Viaduct OR reduce the vehicle carrying capacity of Georgia St.

Translink will NEVER let them. Time to put this whole mess to rest and ask the CoV about the MRN designation and its consequences. Bet folks will just hear crickets.

[officedweller]

Initial comments on the slide show:

At least the "wall" of resort-like slabs is gone.

I'm sure the residents of Strathcona will LOVE how the new Pacific Street funnels combined Pacific Blvd and viaduct traffic their way (versus just viaduct traffic before).

How will the new Pacific Street connect to Smithe Street if Expo Blvd is closed up? The casino proposal had Terry Fox Way becoming a dead end and there's an elevation gap between the Cambie Bridge and Pacific Blvd where they cross.

Bizarre how a benefit (to the public?) is to "make Concord whole".

The entire concept of "restoring the grid" yet creating a giant curving blvd and massive park that, in turn destroys the grid on adjacent lands, is at odds with itself. The park will create a "barrier" between the NEFC Concord lands and the areas near Main Street. Unless that east-west separation is the underlying intent? With Expo and Pacific Blvds in place, lowrise street walls could be built to enliven the area (like being done under Granville Bridge by BIG). With a massive park in place - it becomes an impenetrable barrier - especially at night.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by biketrouble

The City's viaducts proposal is up: http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/fcflats/

Well, on one hand, the proposal is pretty much what most people here expected, which is too bad. OTOH, people voted for Vision knowing this is what they were going to do, so maybe this is what we deserve. Sadly.

Still, I very much hope Stingray is correct, and Vision does not have the legal power to do what they seem so every intent on doing.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by officedweller

How will the new Pacific Street connect to Smithe Street if Expo Blvd is closed up? The casino proposal had Terry Fox Way becoming a dead end and there's an elevation gap between the Cambie Bridge and Pacific Blvd where they cross.

Bizarre how a benefit (to the public?) is to "make Concord whole".

These two points jumped out at me as well.

Perhaps the City simply doesn't care about a Smithe Street connection (ie. traffic could connect West at Nelson). Hopefully this isn't a precursor to conversion of the more heavily used one-way streets to two-way streets as has been hinted at in the Downtown Transportation Plan.

I laughed when I saw one of the main "features" was to make Concord whole. Clearly this is directed at council as opposed to the public but bizarre to have included it in the public open house material.

[Zassk]

It's not clear to me what the fate of Dunsmuir will be. Is it going to have an (even steeper) hill down to the new Pacific? Or will it start at Beatty?

[WarrenC12]

One thing I noticed the other day while on the viaducts is the parking space underneath is routinely used for big shows that come into both BC Place and Rogers Arena. Roger Waters' show had at least a dozen big rigs. Where would these park in the future?

Bottom line is that the land there can be a little better utilized, but taking down one viaduct is a poor use of money.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

So, basically, Beasley retires from CoV, city hosts ideas fair, Beasley suggests international design competition, Beasley's team enters and wins competition, and the city almost wholesale adopts their concept as a "Bold and New". Damn, I need to get this guy's business model.

You hit the nail right on the head. Larry Beasley has retired although in addition to rigging this entire sham of a "competition" he also hand-picked his successor ( BrentToderian). Maybe he should re-apply for Toderian's job since he was his puppet anyways. I think he stands a good chance at getting the job. Also, I see the "peer panel" or whatever it was called, was filled with the usual birkenstock wearing hacks who think Portland Oregon is the ultimate city. (frankly I was shocked that ole Gordo Price didn't make the esteemed panel )

But really, constructing and then winning your own competition passing it off as a city inspired initiative is incredibly lame

[st7860]

Originally Posted by Echowinds

Not saying I advocate building a freeway on the waterfront, but building one would guarantee that industrial harbour area will stay industrial. The dwindling of industries in Vancouver can be a concern, and certainly not every part of Vancouver's lengthy coastline needs to be lined with condos.

if there was demand for that industrial land then there wouldn't be so many condos being build on it.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by st7860

if there was demand for that industrial land then there wouldn't be so many condos being build on it.

There is overwhelming demand for industrial land, it's just that the demand for residential surpasses it in many cases resulting in greater values for residential development. This is why we have zoning and policy protecting industrial lands.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It's not clear to me what the fate of Dunsmuir will be. Is it going to have an (even steeper) hill down to the new Pacific? Or will it start at Beatty?

I think they're turning it into a stub and only reconnecting the bike lane to it.

[huenthar]

Open house dates are:

Tuesday June 5th
4-7pm
Woodwards Atrium (111 W Hastings)

Thursday June 7th
3:30-6:30pm
Creekside Community Centre (1 Athlete's Way)

Saturday June 9th
10am-2pm
Central Library Promenade (350 W Georgia Street)


Everybody please attend and make your opinions known!


(ain't it neat how there's no open house in Strathcona/Grandview etc - you know, the communities that would be the most affected by this sham? )

[Hed Kandi]

..

[mezzanine]

Now that there is a plan, it looks great. I really can visualize the area without viaducts, and IMO it will be a net benefit.

A few points:

-I think ppl are forgetting the importance of being connected to a grid of roads or bikeways. Traffic flow to pacific will be attenuate IMO by the grid. If you are stuck in car traffic on the viaduct, you lack a grid to detour. The bikewy at carrell will be better utilized
-if people do think that the viaducts should be taken down eventually, we should plan for that now when the whole site is relatively undeveloped. I see more downside and a missed opportunity if we made the land use plan now with the viaducts only to go back 30 yr later to "fill in the space".

[Zassk]

The amount of traffic on Pacific and Georgia is going to be enormous. That intersection where they meet will be one of the busiest in the region.

[wrenegade]

I love how it mentions how much the viaducts cost to maintain and shows on a nice very scientific graph how the costs will spike to infinity as they get older, but never even broach the subject of how much they might cost to remove. Or to build a new Georgia Street ramp or a new Dunsmuir bike bridge or re-aligning Pacific street and the Skytrain guideway.

This is easily the worst thing Vision and the city have done. I can't believe how much effort, time and money they are putting towards this while there are so many other much more important things that should be addressed first. As Jlousa mentioned, the Granville Loops immediately come to mind. I don't necessarily mind the discussion so much as the process. It isn't even considered to leave the Viaducts as is or just have them end at Main Street.

[Spikester]

Their plan (for lack of a better word) notes a 5% grade for the new Georgia Street ramp. Forget about what a nightmare that would be on a snowy day for a moment. Does anyone know the elevation change from Pacific up to Georgia, and how far west a 5% grade would extend? Is that comparable to the Main Street ramps on the viaducts today?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Zassk

It's not clear to me what the fate of Dunsmuir will be. Is it going to have an (even steeper) hill down to the new Pacific? Or will it start at Beatty?

Er, that's kinda what I was wondering, too. Anyone else?