LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[202_Cyclist]

Edluva:

. Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan
Downtown LA, Century City and Glendale alone account for something like 75 million square feet of office space, so ya, they do account for much of the office space in the LA area. you are right though, the scattered 2 story offices do make up a significant amount unfortunately
actually it's more like:

glendale - 6msf
century city-10msf
downtown la- 32msf
total = 48 msf


and just for some perspective:

westside+wilshire (includes century city) - 59msf
los angeles county - 186msf
*source - grub ellis


so 48msf out of 186msf for la county (roughly 300msf for the metro) is relativey minor. so going back to my point about la forumers giving our landmark skyscraper nodes way more psychological importance than is reflected by reality, you can see that the vast majority of la's white collar employees drive to non-descript office parks in random suburbs, and that with "nodes" like century city, downtown glendale, and burbank, even though their mini-skylines appear psychologically significant against the backdrop of the suburban wastelands that surround them, they are peanuts in terms of their actual role as employment centers.

so no matter what happens, LA will never see a skyscraper boom even a fraction of the level seen in tokyo, or even chicago. we have too much office space, and 87 percent of it is scattered across literally thousands of square miles in such a way that we won't ever have a dominant urban employment center. this city has gone awry for so long that nothing, not even a mass transit renaissance, can turn things around. la has been a victim of its own success - of sprawling its way into a generic hell. it is the epitome of the generic city. unimportant locations for unimportant office parks for unimportant people, and a present day struggle to find meaning amongst ubiquity.

our hope is in laying a good framework (a concentrated mass transit infrastructure) to support future inner-city growth. but the question then becomes, how much more will we grow?

I don't think the Southern California region is as bleak as you claim. You dismissively mention Costa Mesa, but the office area around John Wayne Airport/Santa Ana/Costa Mesa had as much office space as downtown San Francisco, according to a 1996 Bank of America report (http://www.radicalurbantheory.com/misc/beyondSprawl.html). Similarly, the LA Times noted in 2002 that the area around SNA/Costa Mesa had more office space than either downtown Dallas or Atlanta (http://articles.latimes.com/2002/nov/05/local/me-scraper5). Yes, much of this is surrounded by wide roads and large surface parking lots, but there is significant density in areas like this.

Just a few miles away, the Fashion Island area of Newport Beach, admittedly entirely suburban, has several million feet of office and hotel space and the largest bond-trader, Pimco, is building a 20-story office building with nearly 400,000 sq feet of space (http://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dpt-0313-pimco-20110313,0,5014970.story).

Both the town of Orange and the city of Santa Ana have dense, walkable, concentrations of office space in some locations.

I also see that you've left Long Beach off of this list. This is just a pure estimate but Long Beach likely adds another 10-20 million sq feet of office and hotel space in an area that is one of the most walkable in Southern California.

Most of the supply of Southern California's office space is likely already built, but I think a fairer and more realistic estimate is that 100M sq feet out of the 300M sq feet is in areas that are already walkable or that can become so with improvements such as road diets, infill development, or a focused effort on limiting the amount parking. Similarly, even though much of the supply of the LA region's office space is already built doesn't mean that new transportation investments shouldn't be made in a way that encourages more infill development at these currently-existing walkable urban nodes.

[OneMetropolis]

found these on LA forum on city data, gives more justice to the finishing results of the new downtown park in LA imo.

[Mojeda101]

I see they finally added the grass. That was fast. I can't wait to go to the grand opening.

[BOYCOTT 90210]

Lots and lots of damn stairs...! Wish there was more grass instead of stairs on the hills.

[yeah215]

It's a real shame they kept those lower round ramps. These photos make it so clear how those ramps cut off the park from the street. Maybe with the new parking ramps open up on Grand, they can think of replacing those ones on Hill.

Also, I think moving the County Courthouse into the old federal courthouse is a great idea. I also wonder how much of the DA's office and Public Defenders will fit in the Hall of Justice or accompanying annexes. Looking on the maps, there is plenty of space to build out the civic center and make the area lot more effective public space. Even without totally relocating the hall of administration, one could imagine a new hall that is more accessible and treats the park as important civic space, not merely an ornamental mall.
There are lots of security concerns of courthouses, city hall, etc. That said, there are many gov. office buildings in the Civic Center that don't require the same types of security measures. I wish the city and county would look at ways to improve the Music Center, DWP, etc. to approach the street and make enliven the neighborhood. A tremendous amount could be done with the ground level of both the Music Center and DWP building.

[Valyrian Steel]

The steps seemed unavoidable given the hills, but they look unnecessarily wide. It's not like there's gonna be thousands of people coming in at once. But that's just one block, the other two blocks of the park should have a lot more "green" space.

[all of the trash]

Meh. Getting Pershing Square vibes from it but ultimately the biggest hurdle for the park is its out at the edge of downtown, in a definitively 9-5 space where there are no shops/residences, sealed off from the street by the county buildings. Even though these are county buildings and the park is public, the way its oriented feels like its more of a private plaza.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

however, the airline has been hit by a series of economic losses.

Airlines are notorious for losing money......even in good times. However, Korean Air has an important positive......it is the flagship for S. Korea. So it has the gov't behind it. Consequently their LA bldg has a better chance of getting built.

[Muji]

The Civic Center park does look nice, but it really is an enormous waste of money given how oversaturated the district already is with parks and plazas, most of which are highly underused as it is. I'm sure it would benefit far more Angelenos to build smaller spaces in some of central LA's more park-starved neighborhoods.

[alki]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist and bobcat

alki:

This seems like an entirely reasonable schedule to me. Here in DC, it takes 1 1/2 - 2 years to build a ten-story box of a building. Five years to build a 70-story building, when it involves site work and more building design seems like an acceptable time.

I figure 2 years for construction; six months more for demolition. I could be wrong........but it looks to me like they are hoping the local market will firm up before completion. Hence they are dragging out the schedule.

Because Korean Air is backed by the S. Korean gov't, it has deep pockets........it can sit on a vacant piece of property for as long as it needs.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

thanks for those links, bobcat, but if you or anyone else has the 2nd article in its entirety, it would be nice to see it posted here, or at least more excerpts from it. However, its opening sentence does make it sound like the situation between dt & other hoods to the west still hasn't changed much for the better...

I see LA stats all the time and DTLA is still weak when it comes to office absorption. I am hoping that the new restaurants, commerical activity and all the new apts/condos will draw more companies to DT.

[JDRCRASH]

sorry guys i was really busy this past week i'm updating page 1 tonite tho.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ On the east side of Figueroa, just south of the 4-story apartment building on the corner of Figueroa and Pico, directly across from the Convention Center. There will be 3 buildings that will eventually fill most of that parking, as well as a parking lot immediately adjacent fronting Flower Street.

Well...walking distance to the Pico station so more possible passengers for the Metro rail system!

[alki]

[QUOTE=citywatch;5711489]some of the major walkways look wider than necessary, with more hard space in the park than required, unless the designers are expecting huge crowds of ppl on most days strolling around in their sunday best. but it's still an improvement over the dated mall from the past.[QUOTE]


I have to agree with you. I like the overall design but where's the grass. Grass = park. The Civic Park looks like an overgrown plaza.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I do agree, though, that, in many respects, L.A. was a victim of its own success. When it matured, in the 60s, and 70s, L.A simply followed the current urban trends. In a way, it is a perfect example of a mid-century city, and I'm sure, at the time, L.A. was considered one of the most perfect cities anywhere. Now, of course, trends have changed, and we as a society value urbanity more then suburbanity. L.A. simply needs to catch up. Luckily, I think it will.

Illithid, understand this was not an urban trend that LA was following. LA was creating the trend. They were the brave new world of urbanism..........sprawl was in; concentrated density was out. And many SW cities followed the trend created by LA.

I really believe that sprawl dissipates the strength of an urban area......sucking out its vitality. And I don't think developing an extensive transit system alone will do the trick. Dallas has one of the most extensive LR systems in the country and its not making the metro area more urban and dense nor is it attracting riders.

What's working in LA's favor is that its a large urban area with millions of people; still is the metro area with the largest manufacturing employment in the country and continues to be a major port.

What has to happen is for Angelenos to stop thinking Westside and start thinking DT.

[alki]

[QUOTE=Illithid Dude;5712369]Curbed posted another one of the ideas for the South Park hotel, this time by Teiger Architects. This is not the winning proposal. That goes to Sam Marshall Architects in Florida (which is weird because, according to their site, they have done literally nothing- just a high school and a jail). Anyways, here are the pictures.



I like the other design better. When will the winning design be posted? Does anyone know?

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by alki

What has to happen is for Angelenos to stop thinking Westside and start thinking DT.

That isn't it, though. LA is so large, disjointed, and fractured, that people will think of not only the Westside, but the SFV, SGV, South Bay, the OC, IE, Ventura County, etc. Very few other cities LA's size and caliber have this wide of a well-established nodal variety to compete with. Unless something drastic happens (i.e, a huge, unprecedented, multi-generational shift and transformation), it is going to take more than a few light-rail lines, loft conversions, pocket parks, and restaurants - hell, even skyscrapers - to shake this kind of thinking, despite how much we would like for it to happen. Until that does happen, DTLA will merely continue to exist as but one of the many nodes and activity centers in Los Angeles, but never the preeminent one.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Well...walking distance to the Pico station so more possible passengers for the Metro rail system!

there's an overhead image of the proj published yesterday in the LA Times that I've never seen before...


GMP Architects / latimes.com

the article that goes with that pic repeats what has already been in the media about the apt proj, except it mentions a 2nd phase at 1500 south fig, which has never been mentioned before, or at least I've never known about....

By Roger Vincent

May 27, 2012, 1:19 p.m.

Construction began last week on the Avant, a $170-million luxury apartment complex near the Los Angeles Convention Center. The Avant will have 440 units in three buildings on Figueroa and Flower streets between Pico and Venice boulevards. Downtown’s South Park neighborhood, which includes Staples Center and the LA Live entertainment complex, is among the region’s more robust rental housing markets.

“There is a huge demand for attractive and well-appointed residential units,” developer Randy Fifield said. “While 500,000 people work downtown, the market-rate housing inventory comprises only 17,706 units.”

The first phase of the Avant consists of two seven-story buildings at 1340 S. Figueroa and 1355 S. Flower. Joined by an elevated walkway, the two buildings will house 247 apartments above ground-floor restaurants and shops. Those buildings are set to be completed by November 2013, when work will begin on another seven-story tower with 194 units at 1500 S. Figueroa that would be finished by the end of 2014.

another online article about the proj

Los Angeles’s South Park neighborhood, a booming sector of the city’s downtown area, will get its first new construction project since 2008 with Century West Partners’ commencement of Avant, a 440-unit luxury apartment complex. The residential development entity, a joint venture between Fifield Cos. and Cypress Equity Investments, will break ground on the initial phase of the three-building project on May 22, 2012.

The first phase of Avant will consist of two buildings carrying the addresses of 1340 S. Figueroa St. and 1355 S. Flower St., atop a combined 11,000 square feet of ground level retail space. The seven-story towers will be linked via an elevated walkway and will share 252-space parking facility.

With contractor C.W. Driver at the helm, the buildings are on track to deliver in the city’s hungry apartment market in November 2013. But Century West will not wait for the 247 units to come online before it commences construction of phase two of Avant. The joint venture will kick off construction of the second segment in early 2013. The complex’s final building will sprout up at 1500 S. Figueroa and will provide an additional 194 residences.

Indeed, there is no need to delay apartment development activity in downtown Los Angeles, despite the fact that 2,700 units were under construction and 3,900 were in the planning phase in the first quarter of the year, according to a report by Marcus & Millichap Real Estate Investment Services Inc. The call for new rental accommodations is growing louder, but the gap between supply and demand remains significant. The downtown vacancy rate declined 60 basis points in the first quarter to a mere 3.2 percent. And while 1,300 units are scheduled to hit the market this year, the vacancy rate is forecasted to drop to 2.7 percent in 2012.

I was so curious about how much space the proj will cover that I did a google birds eye view of the area. the red areas are the 1st phase of the avant proj, & I believe the blue area is where the 2nd phase will go....


maps.google.com

^ I'm surprised by how non continuous the proj's site is, with a gap between the 1st phase bldgs & 2nd phase one. Not to mention that the 1st phase will sit on 2 different streets. the aerial view also shows just how many parking lots are in the hood today & how many will still be there even when the new apt proj is completed.

btw, the green area is where the old masonry bldg containing a hooters restaurant & some other restaurant themed to knights in armor (or whatever) is located. That's the bldg that was remodeled not long ago, covered in stucco & painted a solid blue. If ppl want to complain about the looks of a bldg in that part of dt, the blue stucco eyesore deserves a good....

[alki]

Originally Posted by edluva

^change will not come that fast. this real estate stagnation will last at least another 5-10 years, so your prediction that some magical housing boom will cause a flurry of skyscraper condo construction rendering ours an "amazing skyline" in 20 years is highly unlikely. and who cares about skylines anyway? that's a juvenile preoccupation. we care more about quality urbanism throughout the city, and that requires money and improved land use intensity (it requires white collar employment density) which brings me to the following point....

I think you are too negative even as I agree with much of what you say. Its true that LA will never be a NYC or Chicago........its gone too far in a different direction from those cities. However, it can be considerably more urbane than it is today, and DTLA can be more of an economic center than it has been. However, it will take a concerted effort to make it happen.

And I think that increasing residential construction DT will make a difference if for no other reason than its drawing creative types who could cause the next Groupon or Facebook or Tumblr to happen. One of those companies in DTLA could turn around the city virtually overnite. That is what happened in DT Seattle. When WAMU collapsed and got bought out, millions of sq feet were released into the DT market. The vacancy rate was well over 20%. Then Amazon decided to move from a neighborhood to DT Seattle. In the past two years, Amazon has absorbed over 2 million sq feet of space and almost single handedly moved the vacancy rate close to 10%.

I also do agree with you that growing the skyline is DTLA's least concern. Filling up all the parking lots/vacant spaces with real bldgs........no matter the height.......should be the top priority. And given how many vacant spaces exist in DTLA, shorter is better than taller because it will mean one or two tall bldgs can't eat up all the demand for space needed in the next 5 years in one fell swoop.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis

found these on LA forum on city data, gives more justice to the finishing results of the new downtown park in LA imo.

thanks for posting those pics. I've been wanting to see an aerial shot of the revamped mall for quite awhile. however, the new area has so many features that look so similar to what was there in the past, that I just did a search to find a pic of the mall as it originally was designed to figure out what has now been changed.....



^ If ppl haven't read about what the planners purposefully wanted to change about the old mall, they might look at the before & after pics of it & not notice any obvious difference. but the areas around the fountain are now accessible to visitors. in the past, the entire backside of the large fountain was blocked off by the ramps to the underground parking lot.

btw, since most of the mall is on top of a large parking area, that requires much of the landscaping to sit in planters. so I would think planners have been constrained in the number of large trees & big plants they could install.

Originally Posted by alki

I have to agree with you. I like the overall design but where's the grass. Grass = park. The Civic Park looks like an overgrown plaza.

the biggest improvement will be the removal of the parking lot that used to be directly across the street from city hall. I've long that deadzone, esp since it was such a fugly foreground to one of the most well known bldgs in LA. as for the mall area farther west, I guess if one looks closely at the pic taken a few decades ago & the one shot recently, some of the walkways are a slight bit narrower, & there appears to be a bit more green space. Of course, even that was better than what used to sit there over 45 yrs ago....a big parking lot, & before that----from before the 1950s-----a lot of slummy bummy bldgs.