[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed - Page 142

someone123 · #**2821** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 7:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolmillion

I really dislike the Grafton Street atrium component of the design. I think it has the potential to be an absolute no-man's land. I think it also disrupts the street pattern (although the developer would say it doesn't) and encroaches upon public space. Will this space be "public" in the same way as a street?
The convention centre in Seattle has a similar canopy across Pike Street and the space underneath it is completely dead and feels unsafe at night. The intent with the Nova Centre is to create a shopping and pedestrian area under the canopy, but this vibe is not easy to artificially produce. It already exists on Argyle Street.

Yeah, the design immediately reminded me of the Seattle convention centre too. I think it is a little different because Pike Street has more traffic, including buses. It's also got a parkade entrance under the canopy and adjacent to the canopy is I-5 and onramps. It is more analogous to what you'd get if you put the Nova Centre right next to Cogswell.

If they keep out traffic and make the canopy inviting with good lighting and patios I think it could be successful, and it'll be a convenient spot during Halifax's (many) rainy days.

Phalanx · #**2822** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 8:47 PM**

I also think it's something that could work with the right kind of anchor businesses, lighting and atmosphere. I don't think it has to be seen as being in competition with Argyle, but an extension to it. With the existing foot traffic in the area and the hotel/residential component, it should do okay.

As for whether or not it will remain public, again, given the hotel/residential element of the complex, I don't see how it could be anything but a public space, and while far from reliable, all the renderings seem to depict it as such.

JustinMacD · #**2823** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 9:37 PM**

Renderings are gorgeous.

halifaxboyns · #**2824** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 11:10 PM**

Hey folks - long time no post; been really busy with work! I always thought that the concept over Grafton street might be an interesting opportunity to look at replicating the Fremont Street experience in Halifax.

Depending on how its done, you could have a block long series of digital displaces that could then act as a tourism attraction. If it's done right - the LED displays would simply focus the 'movie' onto the street (which apparently will be pedestrian only??) and then draw people down. Then could be an attraction for the types of uses along the street. The the screens wouldn't reflect light back up to any potential hotel rooms and or residential uses. Plus considering the close proximity, it likely wouldn't operate past 10 or 11pm anyway.

Then you could create an experience that might then draw people there and make it a more active street. If you use Fremont Street as a guide - it could really do some interesting things, especially around holidays like Canada Day or New Years. You could have the regular fireworks at Parade Square and then have something going on here using the digital display over the street...

RyeJay · #**2825** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 11:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolmillion

I really dislike the Grafton Street atrium component of the design. I think it has the potential to be an absolute no-man's land. I think it also disrupts the street pattern (although the developer would say it doesn't) and encroaches upon public space. Will this space be "public" in the same way as a street?
The convention centre in Seattle has a similar canopy across Pike Street and the space underneath it is completely dead and feels unsafe at night. The intent with the Nova Centre is to create a shopping and pedestrian area under the canopy, but this vibe is not easy to artificially produce. It already exists on Argyle Street.

I believe the empty lots disrupt the street pattern slightly more.
The Prince George is also on Grafton Street, so there is now a short stretch of hotels with the addition of the Nova Centre. As for Seattle's convention 'center', what are its immediate surroundings? Are there walkable streets with lots of ground-level stores and restaurants, or is this a sprawled context?

Keith P. · #**2826** Posted **Mar 23, 2012, 11:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyeJay

As for Seattle's convention 'center', what are its immediate surroundings? Are there walkable streets with lots of ground-level stores and restaurants, or is this a sprawled context?

Yes. While I-5 cuts through the downtown in Seattle, the CC is virtually next to it so one side is somewhat limited, but the rest of it is just off the center of downtown and it is surrounded by hotels, the Paramount Theater, and actual downtown shopping, along with office buildings. Seattle's downtown is just wonderful.

RyeJay · #**2827** Posted **Mar 24, 2012, 12:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

If they keep out traffic and make the canopy inviting with good lighting and patios I think it could be successful, and it'll be a convenient spot during Halifax's (many) rainy days.

I agree. If they keep the traffic out.

resetcbu1 · #**2828** Posted **Mar 24, 2012, 1:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

Which BMO tower are you talking about? The one downtown is still being used...

There were plans released sometime ago, that included the redevelopment of the bank of Montreal building, the royal bank building and theTD tower.

The plans looked as though a complete overhaul of the bank of Montreal and the royal bank building turning them into a glass towers. Along with the expansion of the TD building which is awaiting approval.

I thought maybe, the reason BMO might consider movng would be to accommodate the future work?

Link here to renderings:
http://www.allnovascotia.com/story_img/20100930_vladi2.JPG

that would be one sweet block!

coolmillion · #**2829** Posted **Mar 24, 2012, 7:19 AM**

The plans are not detailed enough to know exactly how the atrium space will look and what the mix of retail, F and B, and other uses will be. I agree that with the right tenants it could work. I still question whether it will function as the developer intends: a lively street cannot be created out of thin air. Why would someone go hang out under a canopy when they could walk along the waterfront, go to an indoor mall or Spring Garden Road? If it's raining and warm, maybe. Otherwise, likely not.
As for interrupting the street pattern, there are planning by-laws that the closure of streets and consolidation of neighbouring blocks. These policies prevent what happened with Scotia Square from happening again. The Nova Centre proposal is different because Grafton Street is still there, but if it is closed to traffic one could argue that this interrupts the street pattern. Still, more details are needed from Rank.
I think my biggest problem with it is the canopy. Even if it is glass it will block light and get dirty. I think it would be better with awnings on either side, or even a retractable canopy.
I will be very surprised if the businesses in this block attract anyone besides convention visitors. I do like other aspects of the design (still think a waterfront location would have been better), but wish there were more detail.

hfxtradesman · #**2830** Posted **May 4, 2012, 10:09 PM**

In the next week or two there will be an update on this project and it's good news

someone123 · #**2831** Posted **May 4, 2012, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

In the next week or two there will be an update on this project and it's good news

I am hoping they bring in a major new tenant to occupy their office building.

It's nice to see at least that downtown Halifax will have a decent number of modern buildings in a couple of years. I don't think it's healthy to have an office district of aging buildings and inflated rents.

fenwick16 · #**2832** Posted **May 4, 2012, 11:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

In the next week or two there will be an update on this project and it's good news

Hopefully they will be announcing that excavation will start this summer (or sooner).

BravoZulu · #**2833** Posted **May 4, 2012, 11:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

In the next week or two there will be an update on this project and it's good news

Awesome, can't wait to hear that this hole in the downtown will finally be filled

someone123 · #**2834** Posted **May 5, 2012, 12:36 AM**

It will be sad to see these go, but at least people can marvel at the permanent lighthouse display a few blocks away.

source

CorbeauNoir · #**2835** Posted **May 5, 2012, 3:51 AM**

They were already gone a few weeks ago, weren't they?

Haliguy · #**2836** Posted **May 5, 2012, 12:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

They were already gone a few weeks ago, weren't they?

Yeah they have been gone for a few weeks now.

sdm · #**2837** Posted **May 5, 2012, 1:29 PM**

the rumour i heard as of late is that the original plan isn't happening, and that plan b is coming forward and won't incorporate a lot of the original.

fenwick16 · #**2838** Posted **May 5, 2012, 1:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdm

the rumour i heard as of late is that the original plan isn't happening, and that plan b is coming forward and won't incorporate a lot of the original....

That might be for the best. It could still have an attached hotel and maybe instead of 100's of thousands of square feet of office space it could contain a residential tower. However a residential tower might have to be rental since I think that a condo tower would have to be built on dedicated land owned by the condo tower (I know that a condo tower can't be built on leased land in Nova Scotia - a good rule in my opinion). I think that residential units at that location would be popular.

In my opinion, the most important part of the Nova Centre is the new convention centre. I don't think that part of the development can be made smaller without approval from the three levels of government. Whatever the final plan is, it will be great to see that vacant site developed.

RyeJay · #**2839** Posted **May 5, 2012, 2:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

In the next week or two there will be an update on this project and it's good news

Care to share more?...

RyeJay · #**2840** Posted **May 5, 2012, 2:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenwick16

That might be for the best. It could still have an attached hotel and maybe instead of 100's of thousands of square feet of office space it could contain a residential tower. However a residential tower might have to be rental since I think that a condo tower would have to be built on dedicated land owned by the condo tower (I know that a condo tower can't be built on leased land in Nova Scotia - a good rule in my opinion). I think that residential units at that location would be popular.

In my opinion, the most important part of the Nova Centre is the new convention centre. I don't think that part of the development can be made smaller without approval from the three levels of government. Whatever the final plan is, it will be great to see that vacant site developed.

Absolutely nothing wrong with more residential for the downtown. Eventually, I hope, the increased density will stimulate the possibility of a grocery store in a central location, perhaps around/inside Scotia Square Mall of which may be getting its own renovations and additions.