ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[DonTallPaul]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but a kind of cool walk through of the Ponce City Market redevelopment. Was put together by a firm who regularly partners with mine, thought I'd help spread it around. The owner of the partner firm is a Poncey-Highlands local so they are very interested in the project.

http://www.explorePCM.com

[DPC]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

Have you seen all the renderings / project land uses for the gulch, multi-modal station, and that whole area? I can dig them up if you'd like, but that area (the gulch and the immediate area surrounding the GWCC & future stadium) has plans to be redeveloped.

Yes, I have read about it but I didn't see and renderings. That is going to be great. With that redevelopment coming, it's even more incentive to move the Dome out of the area and make the redevelopment even larger. Think about the potential of all that land. It would be amazing!

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by DPC

Yes, I have read about it but I didn't see and renderings. That is going to be great. With that redevelopment coming, it's even more incentive to move the Dome out of the area and make the redevelopment even larger. Think about the potential of all that land. It would be amazing!

I think that moving the Dome to the suburbs is a tragic idea...that entire side of downtown is an entertainment/large events area and works well together, so I don't see the need to break it up when there is plenty of other land in other areas (or even surrounding the Dome area) where residential development can be successful and a higher density attained. The Falcons need to be downtown...an NFL team in any downtown is always a major attraction and good for business.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I think that moving the Dome to the suburbs is a tragic idea...that entire side of downtown is an entertainment/large events area and works well together, so I don't see the need to break it up when there is plenty of other land in other areas (or even surrounding the Dome area) where residential development can be successful and a higher density attained. The Falcons need to be downtown...an NFL team in any downtown is always a major attraction and good for business.

Could not agree more.

I have a feeling this guy is MDAllstar from another, lesser site.

[patrick84]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I think that moving the Dome to the suburbs is a tragic idea...that entire side of downtown is an entertainment/large events area and works well together, so I don't see the need to break it up when there is plenty of other land in other areas (or even surrounding the Dome area) where residential development can be successful and a higher density attained. The Falcons need to be downtown...an NFL team in any downtown is always a major attraction and good for business.

Agreed. The hotel, restaurant, business benefits alone of the other stadium events are huge to the city overall.

Additionally, that area is a wildly successful conglomeration of event space that has served the city (and its tax base) well over its life time. The proximity to MARTA and other "cultural" venues of Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park as well as the blighted land to its south and east only make sense to keep it around this area.

[testarossa50]

While I agree with the sentiment that the mix of uses a stadium can generate are good for downtown, their original plan--establishing a brand new stadium in downtown and keeping the Dome in operation--was terrible. The new plan is actually a whole lot better--if you build a new stadium, tear down the Dome afterwards (or maybe we can ship it to Qatar or something).

But still, I'd just prefer to keep the Dome. It's a perfectly fine stadium.

I think the College Football use is actually rivaling the Falcons in terms of importance. Come Memorial Day, four separate fanbases (NC State, Tennessee, Auburn, and Clemson) will be in town for two games. After that, Georgia State (which is joining the FBS) will play its season there. The SEC Championship game speaks for itself, and the Chick Fil A Bowl brings two more out-of-town fanbases for New Years.

Once you tally it all up, with all of this stuff you're bringing at least a couple hundred thousand fans to Atlanta from out of town who wouldn't otherwise have come here most likely. I think it would be pretty hard for the Falcons to match that number; most Falcons fans seem to live in the metro and drive in for the day.

The only other thing you could get me to go for, but which I don't think Blank would go for, would be to build one AWESOME stadium and house Georgia State, the Falcons, other CFB games, and a new MLS franchise all within one stadium. That would have several dozen events every year and avoid feeling like the ghost town that many stadiums feel like. But scheduling all of this would probably be pretty difficult, esp during Sept-Oct.

[micropundit]

"The only other thing you could get me to go for, but which I don't think Blank would go for, would be to build one AWESOME stadium and house Georgia State, the Falcons, other CFB games, and a new MLS franchise all within one stadium. That would have several dozen events every year and avoid feeling like the ghost town that many stadiums feel like. But scheduling all of this would probably be pretty difficult, esp during Sept-Oct."

You are begining to get the picture: a multi use facility that can retain a number of the current events like the SEC championship in a state of the art setting for the next 20 years AND attracr new events like MLS or World Cup in a sophisticated, safe and sustainable premier urban destination.

Hopefully, enough good ideas come together to optimize the transit oriented devlopment potential of the proposed stadium and the adjacent projects both existing and proposed.

[simms3_redux]

Do I remember correctly officials talking about moving the Falcons to Doraville, where city officials there are gung ho about a visionary mixed-use PUD? That project is stalled, but I know that they were talking about building a stadium for one or more of our pro teams.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Do I remember correctly officials talking about moving the Falcons to Doraville, where city officials there are gung ho about a visionary mixed-use PUD? That project is stalled, but I know that they were talking about building a stadium for one or more of our pro teams.

I'm pretty sure the Doraville city council voted unanimously against building a stadium on the former GM site. Dekalb County was in favor, but locals weren't.

[DPC]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I think that moving the Dome to the suburbs is a tragic idea...that entire side of downtown is an entertainment/large events area and works well together, so I don't see the need to break it up when there is plenty of other land in other areas (or even surrounding the Dome area) where residential development can be successful and a higher density attained. The Falcons need to be downtown...an NFL team in any downtown is always a major attraction and good for business.

Well I guess you are right. I just thought it would be a reason to build around downtown instead of just Midtown all the time. The communities downtown have a need for retail in my opinion. This would great for them. Well at least that Walmart is coming down there. Maybe that will start the changes.

[cityenthusiast]

Originally Posted by DPC

Well I guess you are right. I just thought it would be a reason to build around downtown instead of just Midtown all the time. The communities downtown have a need for retail in my opinion. This would great for them. Well at least that Walmart is coming down there. Maybe that will start the changes.

A walmart in a downtown area would completely destroy all the businesses down there since there all minature compared to walmart so a walmart in a downtown area would be a horrible idea i think. But the neighborhood its going into ive heard really needs it and people think it will make a big difference in the area but that walmart is not really downtown.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by micropundit

"The only other thing you could get me to go for, but which I don't think Blank would go for, would be to build one AWESOME stadium and house Georgia State, the Falcons, other CFB games, and a new MLS franchise all within one stadium.

It likely wouldn't happen period, but if an MLS team were to play there, it'd be temporary. MLS heavily favors soccer-specific stadia (to the extent that it has been considered a key point in their development strategy), and a strong proposal would include those plans right off.

While I do think it's borderline absurd that a facility like the dome would so soon be discarded, it's not such a pleasant venue. And if the numbers are accurate, $300mil for that kind of stadium is not such a horrible proposition relatively speaking. ~$1b in construction related activity, a PR opp for the city, a better entertainment experience, etc. Only one opinion of course.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by cityenthusiast

A walmart in a downtown area would completely destroy all the businesses down there since there all minature compared to walmart so a walmart in a downtown area would be a horrible idea i think. But the neighborhood its going into ive heard really needs it and people think it will make a big difference in the area but that walmart is not really downtown.

The new Walmart is going two train stops west of Downtown - about a mile - and will have an impact a specific retail type.

I think the small businesses that will be most hurt are those on Whitehall Street (aka "South Peachtree" just below Five Points). This area serves as a retail center not to Downtown resident, but to the under-served neighborhoods to the west. Having a Walmart closer to home will certainly draw customers.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by DPC

Well I guess you are right. I just thought it would be a reason to build around downtown instead of just Midtown all the time. The communities downtown have a need for retail in my opinion. This would great for them. Well at least that Walmart is coming down there. Maybe that will start the changes.

I don't know of any Wal Mart coming to downtown...maybe you're thinking of the one in SW Atlanta, but that is not downtown.

I understand your desire for additional residential/retail downtown, but not at the expense of an established entertainment area (i.e. the Dome) that is very profitable for the city. There is already a decent population (+-25K) living downtown, which is more than most others in the U.S. and the area could definitely attract more residents with some additional retail (grocery stores etal), but I think they can coexist with the entertainment venues that are already established. It's not like we are running out of land anywhere in Atlanta.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by delarosa

It likely wouldn't happen period, but if an MLS team were to play there, it'd be temporary. MLS heavily favors soccer-specific stadia (to the extent that it has been considered a key point in their development strategy), and a strong proposal would include those plans right off.

That's the impression I've gotten also. Would it be possible to make funding contingent upon a new MLS team playing there? Or pass a law that no funding for an MLS team will be available any other new stadium, forcing the same result?

I just really don't want yet another stadium in downtown. Braves, the Dome/its replacement, and Philips are plenty--they already consume a hefty chunk of downtown's land as it is. If this were the suburbs, I wouldn't care. They can build ten stadiums.

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I think that moving the Dome to the suburbs is a tragic idea...that entire side of downtown is an entertainment/large events area and works well together, so I don't see the need to break it up when there is plenty of other land in other areas (or even surrounding the Dome area) where residential development can be successful and a higher density attained. The Falcons need to be downtown...an NFL team in any downtown is always a major attraction and good for business.

Agree. NFL stadium has to be downtown. I saw our(?) Heels play there in the Peach Bowl. It was very easy with MARTA.

Isn't there more space than downtown will ever need? Look around the gulch and it's just barren.

That said, an indoor stadium in Atlanta is absurd. I wouldn't spend unlimited money on a new stadium but I'd attend Falcons games if they were outdoors. It's depressing to attend a game indoors on a brisk fall day.

I couldn't see sharing a stadium for MLS. Would be nice to see a small, modern soccer stadium near the football stadium.

And Turner field just seems disconnected from everything...

[DPC]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I don't know of any Wal Mart coming to downtown...maybe you're thinking of the one in SW Atlanta, but that is not downtown.

I understand your desire for additional residential/retail downtown, but not at the expense of an established entertainment area (i.e. the Dome) that is very profitable for the city. There is already a decent population (+-25K) living downtown, which is more than most others in the U.S. and the area could definitely attract more residents with some additional retail (grocery stores etal), but I think they can coexist with the entertainment venues that are already established. It's not like we are running out of land anywhere in Atlanta.

I wasn't saying the Walmart was downtown. I was saying people living in the neighborhoods near the Dome need retail and the development proposal I was speaking about would have provided that but at least there is a Walmart coming to that part of the city. Also, I love where the Dome is, I just hate the vacant lots and parking lots. If they could somehow built around the Dome, that would work as well. What do you think about that?

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by DPC

I wasn't saying the Walmart was downtown. I was saying people living in the neighborhoods near the Dome need retail and the development proposal I was speaking about would have provided that but at least there is a Walmart coming to that part of the city. Also, I love where the Dome is, I just hate the vacant lots and parking lots. If they could somehow built around the Dome, that would work as well. What do you think about that?

Oh okay...the Wal Mart is near downtown and will serve that side of the city, much as the one on Howell Mill serves Midtown. Gotcha.

Actually the parking lots around the Dome are minimal in comparison to most other NFL stadiums (i.e. Lincoln Financial Field in Philly or the Meadowlands) because of MARTA access and underground parking decks, but any parking lot in or near downtown is unattractive in my book...so I agree about those. I also agree with wanting added density in the less-than-dense areas on the edges of downtown, but definitely want the Falcons to remain where they are.

The area to the west of the Dome has never been particularly nice, but then again it is on the very edge of downtown and has never been densely built as far as I know and has been sort of depressed for as long as I can remember. I would hope that any new stadium would include some retail/entertainment/restaurant additions alongside, sort of the way new highrises require a retail component...and hopefully any new addition to that side of downtown would spur further residential development, although I'm not all that sure people would want to live in the shadow of a huge stadium. Nearby maybe, like where Centennial Place is located:

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Agree. NFL stadium has to be downtown. I saw our(?) Heels play there in the Peach Bowl. It was very easy with MARTA.

Isn't there more space than downtown will ever need? Look around the gulch and it's just barren.

That said, an indoor stadium in Atlanta is absurd. I wouldn't spend unlimited money on a new stadium but I'd attend Falcons games if they were outdoors. It's depressing to attend a game indoors on a brisk fall day.

I couldn't see sharing a stadium for MLS. Would be nice to see a small, modern soccer stadium near the football stadium.

And Turner field just seems disconnected from everything...

I've seen Carolina beat a couple of SEC teams in the Peach...and East Carolina and NC State in past years too. Always a great time for NC teams in Atlanta!

[AtlantaMustang]

Posted by Matthew in another thread:

Originally Posted by Matthew

Just announced this week! I'm surprised no one posted on this hotel? It's just down the road from me.

Gwinnett Center Marriott (Gwinnett - Duluth)



Nilhan Hospitality
16-17 floors
300 rooms
$57 million
170 jobs
350 indirect jobs

and an article referencing this: http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2012/04/gwinnett-officials-ok-300-room.html

and a render from the Gwinnett Daily Post:

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2012/apr/25/gcvb-gives-first-approval-hotel-terms-for/