DENVER | Transportation Thread

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I'm copying this just for buntie:

Classic. What that should have said was:

Solving disagreements in the American way, apparently, means making sure that anyone who makes a loud enough stink gets a piece of an expanding pie. Even if the pie isn’t expanding.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Classic. What that should have said was:

Solving disagreements in the American way, apparently, means making sure that anyone who makes a loud enough stink gets a piece of an expanding pie. Even if the pie isn’t expanding.

LOL. The eternal quest of local governments to increase their tax base, or what developments they hope might increase their tax base, or what money they might attract for their compaigns...

[bobg]

RTD board nixes FasTracks tax vote this year
- The Denver Post

So all that BRT talk and countless meetings for nothing. I was kind of hoping once Fastracks II got defeated we could move on to getting some sort of transit infrastructure mill levy started in Denver. But RTD saw defeat coming so Fastracks II will probably loom over our heads another year or two.

On the bright side in case you missed it in February we saw some more movement on the East Colfax front. The East Colfax Transit Alternatives Analysis has the consultants selected and we are at least making baby steps on intra-Denver transit: Presentation to Land Use and transportation committee two months ago

Additionally, through an SB1 grant CCD, CDOT and RTD are also studying how to implement things like queue jumps, signal priority, station improvements etc. on Colfax. This parallel study is being done in order to speed up and make the 15/15L faster and more reliable.

[Cirrus]

Several years ago I recall that someone on the forum posted a map that showed where RTD's bus riders come from. There was a little red dot for every rider (or maybe every 10 riders or something like that). It clearly showed the major clusters along Colfax and in Boulder.

Does anyone have that? Or know where I can get it?

I think it was originally posted by J Church or DenverTrans, neither of whom post regularly anymore.

Alternatively, is there a list of bus routes with frequent service (say 15 minutes or less)?

[bcp]

as much as i support rail of some kind on colfax...good god, did they pay somebody to come up with that .ppt presentation? no decisions, soft-pedal, no new ideas i'm afraid...

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bcp

as much as i support rail of some kind on colfax...good god, did they pay somebody to come up with that .ppt presentation? no decisions, soft-pedal, no new ideas i'm afraid...

This isn't the stage for decisions or new ideas. This is the very first step of a long process.

[bcp]

i know i know...but this .ppt deck has been passed around for a few years now...

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Several years ago I recall that someone on the forum posted a map that showed where RTD's bus riders come from. There was a little red dot for every rider (or maybe every 10 riders or something like that). It clearly showed the major clusters along Colfax and in Boulder.

Does anyone have that? Or know where I can get it?

I think it was originally posted by J Church or DenverTrans, neither of whom post regularly anymore.

Alternatively, is there a list of bus routes with frequent service (say 15 minutes or less)?

Here's RTD's last service performance study for 2010. It will give you the annual boardings and boardings per hour for all of the routes:

http://www.rtd-denver.com/Documents/Performance_2010_Complete.pdf

You'll have to do a cross comparison with the system map (RTD System Map) to see which routes have frequent service. With a fair degree of confidence I will say that the Colfax and Broadway corridors along with Boulder are going to pop out as the ideal places for streetcars if the criteria is going to be frequent service coupled with a high number of hourly boardings.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by bcp

as much as i support rail of some kind on colfax...good god, did they pay somebody to come up with that .ppt presentation? no decisions, soft-pedal, no new ideas i'm afraid...

Why is anyone at RTD planning on what should be next when they don't have the money on hand to do what they had promised to do at the last referendum?
With the postponement of another referendum this year, RTD will not complete the NW and N rail lines until 2040, 28 to 30 years from now. Which means, by default, RTD will not have any money on the table for any new rail projects in Denver, Colfax being just one, until after 2040. Planning for transit more than 30 years in the future should be banned by common sense and as a complete waste of taxpayers dollars..........because in 20 years you might want to build something entirely different.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by electricron

Why is anyone at RTD planning on what should be next when they don't have the money on hand to do what they had promised to do at the last referendum?
With the postponement of another referendum this year, RTD will not complete the NW and N rail lines until 2040, 28 to 30 years from now. Which means, by default, RTD will not have any money on the table for any new rail projects in Denver, Colfax being just one, until after 2040. Planning for transit more than 30 years in the future should be banned by common sense and as a complete waste of taxpayers dollars..........because in 20 years you might want to build something entirely different.

It's the City of Denver that's planning for this streetcar and finding funding outside of RTD. RTD would be a partner, but not the primary driver in getting this corridor transformed into a streetcar one.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bcp

i know i know...but this .ppt deck has been passed around for a few years now...

That's because the city started with the feasibility study. But the feasibility study doesn't really count for the federal environmental/funding process; the alternatives analysis they're doing now is the first step. Hence all the talk about "no predetermined anything"... even though the city already did a streetcar feasibility study (to gin up interest mostly), they cannot technically say it should be streetcar without first doing the official AA.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here's RTD's last service performance study for 2010. It will give you the annual boardings and boardings per hour for all of the routes.... will say that the Colfax and Broadway corridors along with Boulder are going to pop out as the ideal places for streetcars...

Thanks. I'll look. I'm not actually thinking about streetcars right now. I'm thinking about what can come first. What could we do in maybe a 2 year timeframe, with minimal capital expense?

The logical and affordable first step would be to produce in Denver something like Boulder's Community Transit Network - a network of specially-branded buses operating on frequent headways, possibly with limited stops. We copied the idea in DC to produce the Circulator, and it has been very popular. LA's MetroRapid is another similar example. But really Boulder started it.

So here's what I want to do: Design a overlay bus network for Denver consisting of no more than 5-10 routes, with the idea being that each route would operate on approximately 10-minute headways. The system would be branded together, but would have a different name and color-scheme from normal RTD buses. These routes do not have to follow existing RTD routes (in fact it's a little better if they don't), but they should be located in places that can support 10-minute frequencies, which means RTD's busiest corridors are the most likely places to start.

So where would we put those routes? Colfax and Broadway are no-brainers. Getting to Cherry Creek somehow is a no-brainer. But where else?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Thanks. I'll look. I'm not actually thinking about streetcars right now. I'm thinking about what can come first. What could we do in maybe a 2 year timeframe, with minimal capital expense?

The logical and affordable first step would be to produce in Denver something like Boulder's Community Transit Network - a network of specially-branded buses operating on frequent headways, possibly with limited stops. We copied the idea in DC to produce the Circulator, and it has been very popular. LA's MetroRapid is another similar example. But really Boulder started it.

So here's what I want to do: Design a overlay bus network for Denver consisting of no more than 5-10 routes, with the idea being that each route would operate on approximately 10-minute headways. The system would be branded together, but would have a different name and color-scheme from normal RTD buses. These routes do not have to follow existing RTD routes (in fact it's a little better if they don't), but they should be located in places that can support 10-minute frequencies, which means RTD's busiest corridors are the most likely places to start.

So where would we put those routes? Colfax and Broadway are no-brainers. Getting to Cherry Creek somehow is a no-brainer. But where else?

I can send you stop by stop ridership data for all RTD routes if you want.

Or, I suppose I could be motivated and just flip through and send you the top dozen or so weekday ridership routes. That wouldn't take me long. I'd just want to look at loads at an intermediate point inside Denver, though, not full route ridership.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Thanks. I'll look. I'm not actually thinking about streetcars right now. I'm thinking about what can come first. What could we do in maybe a 2 year timeframe, with minimal capital expense?

The logical and affordable first step would be to produce in Denver something like Boulder's Community Transit Network - a network of specially-branded buses operating on frequent headways, possibly with limited stops. We copied the idea in DC to produce the Circulator, and it has been very popular. LA's MetroRapid is another similar example. But really Boulder started it.

So here's what I want to do: Design a overlay bus network for Denver consisting of no more than 5-10 routes, with the idea being that each route would operate on approximately 10-minute headways. The system would be branded together, but would have a different name and color-scheme from normal RTD buses. These routes do not have to follow existing RTD routes (in fact it's a little better if they don't), but they should be located in places that can support 10-minute frequencies, which means RTD's busiest corridors are the most likely places to start.

So where would we put those routes? Colfax and Broadway are no-brainers. Getting to Cherry Creek somehow is a no-brainer. But where else?

How about Federal and Colorado? Perhaps Alameda or Evans?

Aaron (Glowrock)

[The Dirt]

A Highlands circulator would probably be the logical 4th one on that list but, it probably wouldn't do as well as the other 3. Ballpark would be a good one in a decade.

[Cirrus]

All right, now we're cooking. This data wong sent me is pretty good.

Here are all RTD's routes, in order of boardings per hour:

Route 	Standards Class 	Boardings per Hour 
MALL 	Mall 	208.6
86X 	Express 	84.9
303	Suburban Local 	81.6
15L 	CBD Local 	71.4
122X 	Express 	71
0L 	CBD Local 	56.2
16L 	CBD Local 	53.5
120X 	Express 	53.1
15	CBD Local 	50.4
30	CBD Local 	47.7
29/36/36L 	CBD Local 	47.1
SKIP 	Urban Local 	46.7
16	CBD Local 	45.9
30L 	CBD Local 	44.4
83L 	CBD Local 	43.6
STMP 	Urban Local 	40.1
38	CBD Local 	39.5
105	Urban Local 	37.6
3L 	CBD Local 	37.2
5X 	Express 	36.9
121	Urban Local 	36.4
31	CBD Local 	36.2
55X 	Express 	36
40	Urban Local 	35.7
P 	Regional 	35.2
21	Urban Local 	34.3
40X 	Express 	34.1
BOND 	Urban Local 	33.9
87X 	Express 	33
0	CBD Local 	32.9
HX 	Regional 	32.7
DASH 	Urban Local 	32.3
3	Urban Local 	31.6
43	Urban Local 	31.2
B 	Regional 	31
130	Suburban Local 	30.9
169L 	Suburban Local 	30.9
203	Urban Local 	30.7
4	Urban Local 	30.1
100X 	Express 	29.6
7	CBD Local 	28.9
133	Suburban Local 	28.3
9	CBD Local 	28
65	Urban Local 	28
51	Urban Local 	27.8
73	Urban Local 	27.8
153	Urban Local 	27.6
2X 	Express 	27.5
CV 	Regional 	27.5
139	Suburban Local 	27.4
72X 	Express 	27.4
11	Urban Local 	27.2
76	Urban Local 	27.1
20	CBD Local 	26.7
116X 	Express 	26.6
10	CBD Local 	26.5
6	CBD Local 	26.1
52	CBD Local 	25.7
14	Urban Local 	25.6
AT 	skyRide 	25.2
44L 	CBD Local 	24.8
80X 	Express 	24.2
121L 	Urban Local 	24.1
209	Urban Local 	23.8
135	Suburban Local 	23.7
44	CBD Local 	23.4
48	CBD Local 	23.3
31X 	Express 	22.9
204	Urban Local 	22.8
208	Urban Local 	22.8
225	Urban Local 	22.3
48X 	Express 	22.3
12	CBD Local 	22
1	CBD Local 	21.4
28	CBD Local 	21.2
205	Urban Local 	21
35	Urban Local 	20.4
66	Suburban Local 	20.4
8	CBD Local 	20.3
32	CBD Local 	20.1
24	Urban Local 	20.1
47X 	Express 	20.1
93X 	Express 	19.6
DM 	Regional 	19.6
S 	Regional 	19.6
BOLT 	Regional 	19
JUMP 	Urban Local 	18.9
AS 	skyRide 	18.8
131	Suburban Local 	18.5
EV 	Regional 	18.5
L 	Regional 	18.5
58X 	Express 	18.4
88	Suburban Local 	18.3
GS 	Regional 	18.2
AB 	skyRide 	18.1
J 	Regional 	17.6
R 	Regional 	17.6
302	Suburban Local 	17.2
27	Urban Local 	17.1
92	Suburban Local 	16.8
206	Urban Local 	16.5
100	Suburban Local 	16.3
79	Urban Local 	15.9
17	Suburban Local 	15.8
N 	Regional 	15.7
Y 	Regional 	15.7
AF 	skyRide 	15.6
145X 	Express 	15.3
72	Suburban Local 	15.1
45	Urban Local 	15
AA 	skyRide 	15
112	Suburban Local 	14.5
2	CBD Local 	14
46	Urban Local 	13.9
80	Suburban Local 	13.3
120	Suburban Local 	12.7
6X 	Express 	12.2
54	Urban Local 	12
T 	Regional 	12
128	Suburban Local 	11.5
228	Suburban Local 	10.8
59	Suburban Local 	10.7
410	Suburban Local 	10.7
DD 	Regional 	10.4
BroncoRide 	Special Services 	10.4
104	Suburban Local 	9.5
324	Suburban Local 	9.5
402L 	Suburban Local 	9.5
GOOD 	CBD Local CBD Local 	9.3
327	Suburban Local 	9.3
77	Suburban Local 	9
60	Suburban Local 	8.9
326	Suburban Local 	8.9
401	Suburban Local 	8.9
34	Urban Local 	8.8
323	Suburban Local 	8.6
301	Suburban Local 	8.3
67	Suburban Local 	7.4
Orchard 	call-n-Ride 	7.1
N. Inverness 	call-n-Ride 	6.4
S. Inverness 	call-n-Ride 	6.3
403	Suburban Local 	6
LYNX 	Suburban Local 	5.7
Meridian 	call-n-Ride 	5.6
Interlocken 	call-n-Ride 	5.4
RockiesRide 	Special Services 	5.2
63X 	Express 	4.8
VanPool 	VanPool* 	4.8
Arapahoe 	call-n-Ride 	4.6
Brighton 	call-n-Ride 	4.1
Broomfield 	call-n-Ride 	3.9
Dry Creek 	call-n-Ride 	3.7
Evergreen 	call-n-Ride 	3.7
Longmont 	call-n-Ride 	3.6
Louisville 	call-n-Ride 	3.6
Thornton 	call-n-Ride 	3.3
Lone Tree 	call-n-Ride 	3.2
Aurora 	call-n-Ride 	3.1
S. Thornton 	call-n-Ride 	3
Parker 	call-n-Ride 	2.9
Superior 	call-n-Ride 	2.8
50	CBD Local 	2.7
Highlands Ranch 	call-n-Ride 	2.2
SeniorRide 	Special Services 	1.9
SHOP 	Shopper Special 	1.8
access-a-Ride 	ADA 	1.3

More coming...

[EngiNerd]

What's the 303 route (#3 on the list)? I can't seem to find that one.

[bobg]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

What's the 303 route (#3 on the list)? I can't seem to find that one.

It was a Longmont route that got discontinued. Longmont had three routes in that city that effectively served as public school buses: 301, 302, and 303. All three routes got discontinued in 2010 or 2011.

If you look at the service hours in the link Wong provided the 303 bus barely ran and I think service hours and total ridership should also be taken into account when doing analysis for high frequency branded routes. If you look at just boardings per hour you are bound to get some outliers like the 303.

[Cirrus]

All right, now it's not quite as simple as just reading off that list, because sometimes there's more than one route serving the same corridor, and we're interested in the best corridors, not so much in how RTD serves them operationally (at least not yet). So let's go back to the full list, and add the L and X routes together with their local routes, to get a single number for each trunk line.

Once we've done that, let's establish a cut-off. That same pdf says RTD's standard for 10-minute frequency is 40 boardings per hour, so let's eliminate everything that doesn't meet that threshold. 40 boardings per hour is a pretty low threshold for such frequent service, so I'm not worried about losing any routes that might be close. Really, we're going to want corridors that are better than 40.

Let's also eliminate the Mall Shuttle, anything in Boulder, and the regional/airport/sports routes (since we're looking at urban circulation here).

Finally, let's add the names for the routes, so we know what we're talking about.

That gives us these 18 corridors:

Route 	Boardings per Hour 	Name
15+15L	121.8	East Colfax
16+16L	99.4	West Colfax
30+30L	92.1	South Federal
0+0L	86.4	South Broadway
86X 	84.9	Westminster Express
303	81.6	Longmont school bus
122X 	71	Wagon Rd Express
40+40X	69.8	Colorado Blvd
3+3L	68.8	Alameda
120+120X	65.8	120th Ave (Broomfield to Brighton)
31+31X	59.1	Federal
44+44L	48.2	44th Ave (crosstown Wheat Ridge to Montbello via downtown)
29/36/36L 	47.1	South Federal
100+100X	45.9	Kipling (Westminster to Littleton)
48+48X	45.6	48th Ave (Commerce City to downtown)
83L 	43.6	North Broadway
72+72X	42.5	72nd Ave (Westminster-Arvada-Commerce City)
2+2X	41.5	Morrison Express

Now let's remove the suburban routes (including 44th, although that one is debatable). And let's combine the various Federal routes into a single corridor. That leaves us these corridors:

• East Colfax
• West Colfax
• Federal
• South Broadway
• Colorado
• Alameda

Glowy just about had it right (you have no idea how much it pains me to say that).

Next step: Mapping.

[bcp]

this is making way too much sense...what about parking?