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  #3761  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeHundred View Post
^ Or at least stop posting pictures of power lines and comparing them to the downfall of urban society.
But, but! That is the downfall of urban society to citywatch!!
     
     
  #3762  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 4:09 PM
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I get what citywatch is talking about though. Most of my friends were indifferent about LA too. Its so weird though, we could go to Vegas and they all love it, but LA they like to critize everything. Vegas probally has the same flaws, or worse, yet they get over looked, because Vegas has something LA dosen't I guess. Or they're just not that interested, or hate the city, like alki suggests.
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  #3763  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by alki View Post
You consistently set up this dynamic where you play devil's advocate when it comes to LA's lovability. Its surprising because I don't think you are new to the city but you seem oblivious to the notion that LA has never been universally loved like a SF or Vancouver or Portland or Paris or Prague.
alki, by saying "devil's advocate" you make it sound like I rarely or never encounter ppl's comments that run counter to my own. I wish that were the case. I'm not creating a false discontent towards LA. It's other ppl who I've encountered who express a pov. For instance, I see some snotty povs about LA----esp from a person in baltimore, of all places ----in the letters sections in this webpage.....

NY Times forum on LA

Ppl may not have the same negative reaction to portland or vancouver, or where you live right now, as they do to LA, but I find LA to be a far more interesting, complete city. I'll take it any day over a boutique city. but ymmv.

However, there are certain cities like some of the best ones in europe that are both interesting, complete AND attractive. So are american cities like LA always going to have to make do with only 1 of those 3 options or only 2 of them, at best? I guess we can't have our cake & eat it too?

I don't want this post to seem too OT, so I'll relate all of this to the question of why do so many businesses still not want to move to dtla. It's 2012 & the amt of empty office space in the hood remains quite high, as high as it was yrs & yrs ago. Is that possibly cuz ppl who own companies----& choose where their offices will be located----also have a impression of LA, cuz when they drive towards dt, they see so much that looks to them?

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At times it seems very facile and shallow......without substance. And that makes sense......its most famous industry is all about glitter and surface beauty. It takes a while to overcome that image and drill down to what is real..........to learn that the city is more substantive than its image. And it looks to me like its always going to be that way.
the irony is that hollywood----the actual hood in LA, & both the symbol & original physical heart of showbiz----has long been known to be unattractive & anything but glamorous. So a lack of enough superficial gloss ironically enough has made visitors go or when trying to take in the real city. but maybe it's impossible for any city to live up to hollywood hype? btw, I think Hollywood----the place----is better today than it was during its really dark moments several yrs ago. But there still is lots of room for improvement. for instance, getting rid of the big deadzone where the 6200blvd proj is supposed to go up near Hollywood & vine.


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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
It doesn't necessitate you posting Google Street View photos to illustrate the obvious over, and over, and over...p
fwiw, the pic I posted was not from google but from sopas ej. It was from a posting he keyed in here several wks ago, but that I don't think I ever responded to. He said he took pics of LA that purposefully featured sightlines that he thinks don't make the city look all that bad to him. After dealing with the friends I described in my last posting----& being forced again to realize something ain't right in dodge city----I went hmmmm, & thought I'd review sopas's pics.

I've wondered through the yrs why it takes so long to clean up LA. a lack of enough $$? Lack of interest? Lack of time? maybe too many ppl responding to criticism like this....



^ Do ppl react that way when this thread, for the 1 millionth time, is talking about how too many ppl in LA prefer cars to transit? Or would rather drive than walk? Or that our transit lines still aren't very good. Or that some new devlpt doesn't have pritzker prize winning architecture. Or that some new proj has too much parking. or some new proj has stucco instead of granite. Or some new proj doesn't have retail space on the first level. or some new devlpt is more burban than urban?
     
     
  #3764  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post

^ Do ppl react that way when this thread, for the 1 millionth time, is talking about how too many ppl in LA prefer cars to transit? Or would rather drive than walk? Or that our transit lines still aren't very good. Or that some new devlpt doesn't have pritzker prize winning architecture. Or that some new proj has too much parking. or some new proj has stucco instead of granite. Or some new proj doesn't have retail space on the first level. or some new devlpt is more burban than urban?
Yeah but for the most part, that has something to do with the development of DTLA. No one gives 2 and a half damns about powerlines. I mean if someone I know comes to DTLA, I'll show them around and never once will I mention powerlines and how ugly they are. Number one, they're not all that bad and number 2, I don't pay attention to them. Something you should try. It'll help remove that huge powerline burden off of your back.

Off topic a bit but I managed to take a picture of the rarely seen LA Prime Matter art piece actually on fire.
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  #3765  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OneMetropolis View Post
I get what citywatch is talking about though. Most of my friends were indifferent about LA too. Its so weird though, we could go to Vegas and they all love it, but LA they like to critize everything. Vegas probally has the same flaws, or worse, yet they get over looked, because Vegas has something LA dosen't I guess. Or they're just not that interested, or hate the city, like alki suggests.

I've worked in Vegas...........people in Vegas, hate Vegas. They love LA and miss it (esp one's who had to move there b/c of job opportunities).

It's a perception......"grass is greener on the other side". It's easy to criticize your own city than another. I've met people who live in Philly, Baltimore, etc... and most of them say they're jealous that I live in a city with year-round beautiful weather, easy access to the ocean and some amazing nightlife destinations with world-reknowned restaurants. Especially for the fact that they have to watch the "LA lifestyle" in plenty of entertainment media.

People are jealous of our lifestyle............be proud in where you live. Yes, we can always make it better...but LA IS one of the greatest cities in the world. And it will only get better if we continue with electing visionaries (i.e. Villariagosa for Measure R or Mayor Hahn with Adaptive Reuse, etc...).
     
     
  #3766  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2012, 9:59 PM
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Power lines are a problem in other parts of LA, like the westside...but not really Downtown. That pic of the bridge is very misleading. I hope all of you take your bikes to Downtown on Sunday for CicLAvia. You will see a very different view of our ever emerging Downtown. I have ridden on two so far and have yet to see power lines.

What is happening Downtown is that Angelenos are finally seeing what most people have hoped for....entertainment, culture, architecture and the center of public transportation. When I thought I was tired of Los Angeles I tried to find a place with a great urban center, great historic buildings and fantastic weather. You know what? I saw Downtown's beautiful buildings come back to life, one by one. I found the weather better than any other city in the US...and sure, San Diego is nice but it is cool by their bay and there are basically NO historic lofts in all of their Downtown.

Downtown's renewal is really the talk of Los Angeles. Perfect? No. But getting better over time. I think too many people judge Los Angeles by our ugly and filthy freeways. Coming from Orange County...I never will understand why Angelenos put up with that grit....but then again, try taking public transportation in OC....it is a joke.
     
     
  #3767  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
fwiw, the pic I posted was not from google but from sopas ej. It was from a posting he keyed in here several wks ago, but that I don't think I ever responded to. He said he took pics of LA that purposefully featured sightlines that he thinks don't make the city look all that bad to him. After dealing with the friends I described in my last posting----& being forced again to realize something ain't right in dodge city----I went hmmmm, & thought I'd review sopas's pics.
I did post that pic in this thread some time ago, commenting on power lines, but it was actually part of a series of pics I did on some of LA's bridges: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=196780

I didn't take that picture for the power lines, but for the bridge.

Everyone I know who's visited LA has very subjective feelings about it, and often very different feelings about it. Right away, I can think of a number of people who actually found LA to be STERILE--and I took **that** as more of an insult. No surprise, that these people who thought that LA was sterile, visited and hung out mostly on the Westside (visiting family).

So, not every visitor to LA will think that it's .
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  #3768  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 12:49 AM
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I like the power lines. They give L.A. a sort of hyper-dense cluttered, vertical look, a la Tokyo.
     
     
  #3769  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 6:43 AM
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Don't worry about the powerlines. I have a feeling they'll start to disappear as the revitalization continues East into the Arts District.
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  #3770  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 3:36 PM
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Yeah but for the most part, that has something to do with the development of DTLA. No one gives 2 and a half damns about powerlines. I mean if someone I know comes to DTLA, I'll show them around and never once will I mention powerlines and how ugly they are. Number one, they're not all that bad and number 2, I don't pay attention to them. Something you should try. It'll help remove that huge powerline burden off of your back.

Off topic a bit but I managed to take a picture of the rarely seen LA Prime Matter art piece actually on fire.
Wow, that is amazing! I've never noticed that before. Such a small thing really does a lot to improve our interaction to that area. I would have been freaked and probably tried to put out the fire!
     
     
  #3771  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 4:05 PM
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Yeah but for the most part, that has something to do with the development of DTLA.
but not so much more relevant than any other variety of things & issues. Even more so when I recall thinking that the improvement of transit----which definitely has occurred since the devlpt of the red, blue & gold lines----would have made dt not just more accessible to more ppl, but would have lured in lots of new businesses. but here it's 2012 & I'm still reading, over & over again, about companies like google moving their offices to hoods far away from dt.

It's 2012 & the hood still has bldgs with lots of empty space, & with a vacancy rate that is one of the few in all of the US that's remained quite high since 2000. And that's in spite of some of those bldgs being converted from offices to housing over the past 10 or 15 yrs.

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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
I like the power lines. They give L.A. a sort of hyper-dense cluttered, vertical look, a la Tokyo.
that makes me think of all the ppl who say that LA is a car centric city & we should accept our history, learn to live with it, & be happy the way that we are. That if ppl want bldgs full of parking spaces & a format that is more burban than urban, deal with it.

btw, there is a major blog site (laobserved) I read on occasion devoted to news & stories about LA run by a person who pretty much feels that exact way about the city, cars & transit. He is opposed to the subway being built further to the west.
     
     
  #3772  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
that makes me think of all the ppl who say that LA is a car centric city & we should accept our history, learn to live with it, & be happy the way that we are. That if ppl want bldgs full of parking spaces & a format that is more burban than urban, deal with it.

I honestly see no correlation.
     
     
  #3773  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 1:01 AM
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I like the power lines. They give L.A. a sort of hyper-dense cluttered, vertical look, a la Tokyo.
I've always wanted Los Angeles to be the "Tokyo of The West"

i mean we have multiple centers, freeways and transit, dense, more than one light and sign districts all over the city... One of the things i LOVE about Tokyo is how they have skyscrapers built around their freeways / freeways actually cutting through a concrete jungle... it makes freeways look urban.. whereas in la the freeways are surrounded by suburbs and it gives of a bad impression..
     
     
  #3774  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeHundred View Post
Yeah but for the most part, that has something to do with the development of DTLA. No one gives 2 and a half damns about powerlines. I mean if someone I know comes to DTLA, I'll show them around and never once will I mention powerlines and how ugly they are. Number one, they're not all that bad and number 2, I don't pay attention to them. Something you should try. It'll help remove that huge powerline burden off of your back.

Off topic a bit but I managed to take a picture of the rarely seen LA Prime Matter art piece actually on fire.
Not entirely true. Power lines are frequently mentioned by visitors I know, who tend to live in nice suburban areas where they are underground. And a friend who just bought in SM specifically selected a 'hood that had no visible power lines. I think this is a pretty standard preference among people buying houses.
     
     
  #3775  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 8:11 PM
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Not entirely true. Power lines are frequently mentioned by visitors I know, who tend to live in nice suburban areas where they are underground. And a friend who just bought in SM specifically selected a 'hood that had no visible power lines. I think this is a pretty standard preference among people buying houses.
But downtown LA isn't Santa Monica or Diamond Bar or Puente Hills or any other pretty place where the grass is green and the SUV's massive. Downtown is almost supposed to have a bit of grit and worn in them. Powerlines add a bit of a lived in feel to a downtown. Could they be buried? Sure. Does it matter in the overall scheme of things in terms of downtown becoming livable? Not really.
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  #3776  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Not entirely true. Power lines are frequently mentioned by visitors I know, who tend to live in nice suburban areas where they are underground. And a friend who just bought in SM specifically selected a 'hood that had no visible power lines. I think this is a pretty standard preference among people buying houses.

as a Realtor i can definitely vouch for this. People (me included) just dont like exposed power lines.

The sad thing is that with proper planning, the city could have undergrounded all of the wires while they are replacing the sewer system. i even emailed the mayor and councilmembers numerous times about this with no response back. Its such a worthwhile investment for the city. Once the poles are gone, plant native trees in their place.
     
     
  #3777  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 4:50 AM
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who tend to live in nice suburban areas where they are underground.

It's not just old vs new, or urban vs burban.

you'll get this view from near a bridge going over a river called the thames, which is in an old, old CITY & not in a new, new burb......


maps.google.com

you'll get this view from near a bridge going over a river called LA, which is in a city that's much, much younger than London...


maps.google.com

^ And ppl who own big companies----not to mention their staffers & workers----see things like that & aren't just a bit less about relocating their offices to dt?

btw, commuting times from home to work, & work to home, are shorter in LA than in NYC. That's in spite of our crowded fwys, & in spite of NY having a much better transit system than we do. So we in LA should therefore appreciate a culture build around cars & fwys? well, if our fugliness can be excused, I guess our car culture can be excused too.
     
     
  #3778  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 4:52 AM
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dude, stop it.
     
     
  #3779  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:07 AM
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London is a prettier city then L.A.? Stop the presses!
     
     
  #3780  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:46 AM
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This is some very exciting news:

According to various sources on twitter, Forever 21 is opening a store in dtla at 6'th and grand (next to Industiel? not sure which exact space)


Twitter

Maybe this will be the start of more retail coming into the area. It's something downtown desperately needs. I'm for sure keeping my fingers crossed.
     
     
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