WINDSOR | Construction - News and Development

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by Symz

On the idea of a trolley, well I agree and disagree. A tracked trolley would cost alot of money to install and maintain, especially for a city like Windsor that is struggling financially. I believe an electric bus type of trolley system could work in the downtown area and possibly shuttle between the university district since the university will be locating 2 satellite campuses downtown in the Windsor Star building on Ferry and in the Armouries. I think it would help tie these campuses together and leave them feeling not soo marooned and out of place from the rest of the university campus.

I also agree the roads are shit and falling apart. I just wrote Eddie Francis a few hours ago complaining about graffiti tags in old Riverside (especially since someone just tagged one of the beautiful murals) I also slipped it in really quickly that Wyandotte between Drouillard and old Riverside is falling apart and everything combined is really bringing down the area in my opinion.

At first I was all for the aquatic centre thinking yay! No more empty parking lots downtown, finally something is going to be built! The more I think about it now the more I think how can we spend this type of money on this development when some of our major roads are shit?

Yes, the trolley would be incredibly expensive. Although it would get a lot of usage, there is a chance that it could become a major financial burden on the city. Rising gas prices however, have caused a massive increase in bus ridership, especially on the 1C route, (i avoid it at all costs because i don't like standing on buses, especially with some of the drivers at Transit.) Back to trolley; i would hate to see the city implement (excuse me language) a half-assed sustainable transit system because electric- trackless trollies DO NOT stimulate economic growth.

Im not talking old-timers Toronto style trolleys either, i am thinking more modern trains like the new vehicles the TTC purchased recently, this would be a great economic tool for the area, made possibly even profitable if people were to completely ditch their cars and use the system (not likely.)

As for the aquatic center, i hear you on this, though i must disagree. I think the Aquatic Center -COULD BE- a great opportunity for the city. More people will be downtown, increasing foot traffic to the area around the complex and possibly stimulating growth for new commercial and potentially even residential development in the general area. It certainly isn't a "cure all" for the slightly run down area south and west of the sight but if implemented correctly and built the way it is supposed to, no more budget cuts, and well advertised, could prove a great recreational tool for the area around it.

concerning connecting U of W to downtown, there is already a bus system in that respect. The system however sees many late buses, missed stops and buses simply not showing up. A more reliable transit system will absolutely benefit the area as well and bring more students into the downtown area and less vehicular traffic.

Graffiti doesn't concern me because it is few and far between in South Windsor . Crumbling roads on the other hand are becoming quite common here and traffic calming is becoming a major issue. On the street i live, the city built a very large speed bump many years ago. This had an opposite effect however, causing people to speed up in an attempt to get air over the giant bump, creating A LOT of noise and safety issues surrounding it. after many requests, the city still refuses to remove it.

Sorry for the long post

[Symz]

Don't be sorry for the long post at all! I think it's great that you've come along and we've got +1 more person talking about Windsor

On the issue of Transit Windsor the biggest problem they have is overall ridership. Sure some routes might be jam packed, but others probably struggle for ridership and over the entire system I think ridership is low if I'm not mistaken.

Their biggest hurdle is Windsor and area's likeness for cars. I think another major hurdle is the region has poor planning when it comes to transportation, and I mean that in the sense that communities such as Tecumseh and Lakeshore and Lasalle which all rub shoulders with Windsor can not take advantage of Transit Windsor due to politics. A few years ago Tecumseh implemented it's own little bus with a route, refusing for whatever reasons to not allow Transit Windsor to offer service in the township even though Lakeshore wants it. The end result is a little bus to nowhere. It may link up with TW now but I would call it a deficient service.

On the aquatic centre I do believe that it will be a positive for downtown, anything beats a prime parcel of land that has sat as bargain rate parking for 16 years (yes since 1986). It is going to cost a huge chunk of money though, what is it up to now? $72 million? What is the city's 2012 budget for road repair? I believe it's a paltry ~$8 million. It just seems like things are a bit out of whack.

Like I said, at first I was like rah! rah! rah! aquatic centre! I have second thoughts though every time I'm driving down a road that feels like a bombed out Afghanni donkey trail.

[Jacob]

"bombed out afghanni donkey trail" - prefect way to describe windsor roads and yes, on routes like the south windsor seven, there is very low ridership, part of the issue however is these buses only run ever half hour at best, seventy minutes on sundays. not much you can do here though because it would cost too much to increase rates at wich the buses travel.

Thinking about poor city planning, i notice there is a major lack of pedmalls in the downtown area. These no vehicle areas can be very good for local businesses and there are a few streets i would like to see this happen on.

As for the tri city thing, i am not happy about this. Lasalle and Tecumseh should be annexed by Windsor. This would solve many political issues as well as allow a unified transit system for the area.

During the transit town hall, i noticed a comment that caught my attention that pointed out how difficult it is to travel in Essex county without a car. There are a lot of towns in this county and there is no municipal transit system between these towns, likely because of the cost and their low practicality.

Any word in the last couple months on "the barn - new windsor city market"?

[Symz]

I agree about the annexation of Lasalle and Tecumseh.

On the subject of The Barn I believe the new owners have posession and have started the process of gutting the place. The place wasn't officially handed over until ~ March 20th I believe? So not much time has passed. These same developers are the ones that just recently bought and plan to renovate the Windsor Ice Park so they are busy bees.

I think The Barn Windsor City market is exciting because it is a private developer (though I'm sure they got the Barn at a good price), but yet at the same time have my concerns because of the existing market on Ottawa & Walker and the fact that it is half empty. Now there will be 2 markets. BUT, I do believe in having a market downtown, just look at London's Covent Market Garden opposite the John Labatt Centre. It's quaint, it has presence and draws in people. Look at that area of London now and you can see it is seeing a resurgence of development.

It's a bit too bad Windsor didn't settle on an arena downtown, but today's Windsor is what it is and we have to roll with what we have, the aquatic centre.

I'm actually very excited about the Windsor Star's move to the Palace. I do understand that downtown has lost a movie theatre and now the only movie theatres are on the outskirts of town, but honestly I never saw a lot of people going in and out of that place. Besides I hated that pink stucco.

I think 2 of the most beneficial developments to downtown in the long term will be the University of Windsor relocating it's school of social work to the current (soon to be former) Windsor Star building, and the relocation of the music and arts school to the armouries. Both of those areas in the core could use refresher and a boost in foot traffic.

[Symz]

I found a little snapshot from a video on the tunnel expansion on Mix 96.7's website.

source: http://mix967.ca/2012/04/construction-starting-in-fall/

[Jacob]

Now if we could just get some real commercial development downtown, not just in the outskirts of the burbs. I just recently found out that a developer has purchased a lot on Cabana near Howard and plans to build a new stip mall. i am not happy about this at all because of the traffic issues the area already has. in fact, a few years ago, a private developer wanted to put up a nice little glass office building (3 stories) right on the corner of Howard and Cabana but they were not allowed to because of traffic issues and the lack of a parking lot in their plans. It was to be called White Oaks office center and was to replace some hideous old buildings and a prime vacant space right on the corner.

This space has great access to transit and other infrastructure, the dougall 6 and south windsor 7 both have stops here, and there is a very wealthy neighbourhood right next to Cabana, it is strange to see such poor development in this area, not that i'm asking for a strip mall there as well.

What the city really needs is some new residential development downtown. Not strip malls or hotels, but offices and apartments/condos. I personally would not mind living in the downtown area, but i am not interested in any of those old ugly concrete buildings. Something with a glass exterior similar to One london Place would be nice.

Incase you haven't noticed, i really care about public transit because i feel the car may soon die as the most mainstream a transit method :/

And how will suburbs work if cars are too expensive to run? Windsor may be doomed in this aspect if you ask me, though this is still far off. Maybe electric cars will be more practical by this time.

[Symz]

I think as gas prices climb, it may help downtown. You would think it would, but people love to hold on to their cars and downtown Windsor still has a negative stigma when you talk to alot of people who either a) don't live within 10 minutes drive of downtown or b) don't live in Windsor.

About the strip malls, ugh, yes I know what you mean, I can't stand them and they're everywhere. It's the one kind of development that this area has done well on, but I think every city suffers to varying degrees with this same problem.

One thing I have noticed in the last few months is there are more plazas going up in existing areas of the city that were either sitting as vacant lots, or were sitting as empty properties. For example the lot at Riverside and Lauzon is now a medical plaza, that lot has sat empty for as long as I can remember and I'm 33.

Also there's supposedly a medical building/plaza that's supposed to go up at Oullette and Giles where the former Tim Horton's was located. That lot has sat empty for a number of years. Then there's the lot at the corner of Dougall and West Grand Marais that has sat empty for years, that is soon to be developed. There's also 2 new plazas going up on Dougall across from Walmart, sort of south Windsor-ish, and there's a new plaza on Walker. Ya they're all strip malls, but these are existing lots so you could consider it infill.

I guess my point is this, hopefully over time if they city is a bit smarter with planning and encourages developers to develop within existing areas instead of promoting sprawl in currently undeveloped areas it'll eventually work it's way into the city from the outskirts.

I'm just trying to be hopeful.

[Symz]

Forgot to add about downtown. The city really does need a boost to commercial in the downtown core and residential. The question is do your try for the commercial or residential first? Will commerce locate there if there aren't enough people living in the core to support their businesses? Will people locate there if there aren't enough ammenities and businesses?

Either way we need both.

I'm really hoping all the city's efforts with the riverfront park will pay off with some sort of new condo development. I mean look at the waterfront park, it's amazing, it's huge, it has a great view, it really is a gem. I live in old riverside and I walk to Reaume Park all the time (peace fountain) and I see the park heavily used and you can see all the new condo development that has spawned there in the last 10 years. The only thing now is that all the land is used up! It proves a point though, that parks attract condos, so why hasn't it happened downtown yet??

[Jacob]

Yes, a new medical building was just completed on Dougall and it has a beautiful glass exterior, and there is supposedly another going up down the street from there, as well as a new plaza at the old abandoned Dougall corner eyesoar. One of the big problems with the small stip malls is, they are sporadic, all over the place. More driving around in the burbs. Shopping is better in malls and along business streets, not all over causing increased traffic. But who needs air? seems frivolous in Windsor...

I feel the urge to write to eddie and beg him to reconsider the new tunnel plaza. What a waste. I go to the U.S. quite often and not once have i thought, "wow! what a wait! we should tear up an entire block and make the custom booth bigger."


All my posts say something about transit so, ELECTRIC BUSES. just read an article about the BYD company that may be locating a plant here. Maybe TW will purchase some of their buses? Just a thought. Could be coolish.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by Symz

Forgot to add about downtown. The city really does need a boost to commercial in the downtown core and residential. The question is do your try for the commercial or residential first? Will commerce locate there if there aren't enough people living in the core to support their businesses? Will people locate there if there aren't enough ammenities and businesses?

Either way we need both.

I'm really hoping all the city's efforts with the riverfront park will pay off with some sort of new condo development. I mean look at the waterfront park, it's amazing, it's huge, it has a great view, it really is a gem. I live in old riverside and I walk to Reaume Park all the time (peace fountain) and I see the park heavily used and you can see all the new condo development that has spawned there in the last 10 years. The only thing now is that all the land is used up! It proves a point though, that parks attract condos, so why hasn't it happened downtown yet??

Well, there is still sort of a negative mindset about our downtown, many people simply don't want to live there because of cime, bars, etc.I have noticed however, that this simply isn't the case. It is actually pretty nice down there now, and as you said, the riverfront parks are gorgeous! many people down there all year enjoying it, a great area all around. and then there are the dirty apartment complexes and little shanty looking houses just west of the super-anchor site. depressing really.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by Jacob

All my posts say something about transit so, ELECTRIC BUSES. just read an article about the BYD company that may be locating a plant here. Maybe TW will purchase some of their buses? Just a thought. Could be coolish.

I do think that could be a cool idea, electric buses, why not one as a shuttle between the University and downtown for the students that have to migrate between campuses?

I voted for Eddie, I put faith in him, but sometimes he seems like he's lots of talk and then we're left waiting for these jobs and companies to happen.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by Symz

I voted for Eddie, I put faith in him, but sometimes he seems like he's lots of talk and then we're left waiting for these jobs and companies to happen.

Eddie is a visionary. He has great ideas for the city but few ever come to fruition. Unfortunately, this often makes him look bad. He is well intentioned and obviously tries hard, but in this city, anything that gets done is done slowly, behind schedule, over budget and with major flaws (the redeveloping of Howard and North Talbot comes to mind - it was paved several times in the slow process.)

Perhaps some time in the near future, Windsor will become a city that is well known in the future-tech industry. We have a great tool and die sector, now we need something for these tool n die businesses to make products for.

As for downtown, i have a feeling that financial business deal is going to be successful, possibly locating a banking office center downtown? If that happens, we will see well to to people making their way into the downtown for business, creating a demand for lodging and housing. This will create even more demand for retail and in turn, offices see that chain reaction? can be hopeful, right?

[Symz]

I'm bouncing around between 2 threads. I'm trying to keep this thread more oriented towards new development while I bicker about other Windsor stuff in the Windsor talk thread.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193569&page=10

For some light reading, feel free to check that thread out too.

Back on topic, you're right about Eddie being a visionary and I like that. I know some people can't stand that aspect of him, but I feel that his compass is pointed in the right direction with wanting to progress the city. For too long this city felt like it was spinning it's wheels and not moving forward. I've seen more things change in this city since Eddie's been mayor than I have in the years leading up to his mayoralship.

I look forward to a possible new museum downtown and I'm really hoping one way or another council can pull it off. Right now there's some politics over the Chimczuk money that was left to the city towards a community museum. My main concern with a new museum is I really hope they do it right. I don't want to see a half assed museum. Windsor has a lot of history to show and I think a nice building is fitting to showcase that, not some popsicle museum room added on to the gallery. I'm all for having a museum close to the art gallery, but I don't know if I want it integrated into the building with it if it compromises it's wow factor. I want it to be special and for it to be a draw for people.

I see that they're moving the downtown library into the art gallery building, I see this as both good and bad. First it's good because I think a library and gallery is sort of a nice combo of culture and higher learning. The bad side is, it's essentially a downsize for both institutions we're seeing.

Lets keep our fingers crossed that when all the moving and shuffling is done, with the library, hopefully a new museum, aquatic centre and the arrival of 2 satallite university campuses downtown that it will spur other growth.

My other conern when it comes to growth is Farhi. I know he owns lots of property in downtown London and I don't think he has built a damned thing yet there.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by Symz

My other conern when it comes to growth is Farhi. I know he owns lots of property in downtown London and I don't think he has built a damned thing yet there.

This absolutely terrifies me. He owns two of the best plots of land in the damn city. if there were anywhere to build a new high rise it would be one of these lots. my fear is he will sit on them so long that they become very valuable and then try to sell them, possibly just too late, leaving us with four empty lots that could have had some nice new building sitting on them. Hopefully this is not allowed to happen and something is done about this. When new buildings go up in downtown Windsor, they are usually plopping on top of historic building, this creates a real issue. These lots he owns however, happen to be empty already, making them very valuable to land developers in this area.

Some residential would be nice in that area, the riverfront gardens along with the new aquatic complex and being right by the transit depot makes this possibly the best place to locate a new residential structure in Downtown. We'll likely see something happen within the next few months if he does plan on building something, no one simply waits until there is no demand to build and right now, demand is increasing quickly. I guess we have to wait and see.

[RoseCityFreePress]

I think the tunnel expansion would sit better with me if they also re-routed the street around it instead of getting rid of it. As for Transit, its shit through and through. they system needs to be blown up and re-built. It was no shocker that the students at the U voted it down 2-1. they know they were being sold a bad system. Something like Bus Rapid Transit would be good for long stretches of road. moving people east and west takes way to long as it is. As for downtown transit a free bus trolly system would be great for moving people around. They use them in other big cities and they work very well. The key to the success of the trolleys is the fact that they dont look like a bus, People who never use busses would be more incline to use something that looks like a street car and is free.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by RoseCityFreePress

I think the tunnel expansion would sit better with me if they also re-routed the street around it instead of getting rid of it. As for Transit, its shit through and through. they system needs to be blown up and re-built. It was no shocker that the students at the U voted it down 2-1. they know they were being sold a bad system. Something like Bus Rapid Transit would be good for long stretches of road. moving people east and west takes way to long as it is. As for downtown transit a free bus trolly system would be great for moving people around. They use them in other big cities and they work very well. The key to the success of the trolleys is the fact that they dont look like a bus, People who never use busses would be more incline to use something that looks like a street car and is free.

I agree completely. If you look at transit Windsor's full system map, there is no bus going into Southwood Lakes. This shuts thousands of people out of the bus system. and if you want to travel east to west, you are looking at endless transfers and hours of wait. A shuttle needs to go from the U to the center and a trolley would be amazing down Oullette and then Dougall, perhaps running into the Walker road area where the Silver city is. With all the new development starting in this area, new plazas and strip malls both on Dougall and walker,many people would use this system. I guess i am a bit of a dreamer here though. How dare i dream of having a real transit system in Windsor? SHAME ON ME

[Symz]

Originally Posted by Jacob

I agree completely. If you look at transit Windsor's full system map, there is no bus going into Southwood Lakes. This shuts thousands of people out of the bus system. and if you want to travel east to west, you are looking at endless transfers and hours of wait. A shuttle needs to go from the U to the center and a trolley would be amazing down Oullette and then Dougall, perhaps running into the Walker road area where the Silver city is. With all the new development starting in this area, new plazas and strip malls both on Dougall and walker,many people would use this system. I guess i am a bit of a dreamer here though. How dare i dream of having a real transit system in Windsor? SHAME ON ME

I think it's going to be a long time before we see a robust public transit system in Windsor. The mindset for this model just doesn't exist in this car-centric region. We were the car capital of Canada for a long time.

I do like the new hybrid buses though (never been in one though).

I'd like to take a minute and point to this recent story recently at CBC Windsor on Tranist Windsor bus route times.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/03/02/wdr-windsor-bus-service.html

A by car vs. by bus comparison is shown. For some destinations on some routes the travel time is nearly 4 times longer than by car. Transit Windsor needs to work on this if they want even more ridership.

[Jacob]

Originally Posted by Symz

I think it's going to be a long time before we see a robust public transit system in Windsor. The mindset for this model just doesn't exist in this car-centric region. We were the car capital of Canada for a long time.

Not as much in the younger generation as the older. I don't think the car will dominate the region much longer, we seem to ne getting a bit of an eco friendly stigma for the city. Hopefully this will change the thoughts of some of those old, ignorent politicians in the near future.

Originally Posted by Symz

do like the new hybrid buses though (never been in one though).

The new Hybrid buses are VERY nice. they are air conditioned, very comfortable, very clean, the LED lighting is comforting and they don't vibrate much.

I know i seem a little obsessed with this whole trolley thing but they are very good at stimulating development as well as getting people out. They change the personalities and moods of the people that live near them! they are quiet, clean and efficient. I don't see why they aren't embraced more. In many cities that have begun building these recently, there has been so much investment in the areas around them that they soon could get their moneys worth on taxes alone. But i will keep dreaming for now, i guess

[RoseCityFreePress]

I agree with the trolleys or some sort of light rail. Yes it cost a lot but the long term benefits should out weigh the sticker shock. Light rail is working in all the cities that it has been placed

[Symz]

Originally Posted by RoseCityFreePress

I agree with the trolleys or some sort of light rail. Yes it cost a lot but the long term benefits should out weigh the sticker shock. Light rail is working in all the cities that it has been placed

It has also been placed in cities with higher populations than Windsor, and most likely higher population densities in their core areas on top of that.

I agree with the move to public transit, but I don't see people in this area giving up their cars. It probably won't happen here in Windsor in my lifetime.