ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Or Decatur, EAV, Little 5, Old Fourth Ward, etc. Those areas have a lot more going on than they ever did in the past.

Edgewood around Boulevard has been crazy for the last year or two: Church, Sound Table, Music Room, Noni's, Corner Tavern, etc. This area was a graveyard as recently as 2005

[shivtim]

[warning, slightly off-topic discussion below!]

I can definitely understand the opinion that nightlife isn't what it used to be in Atlanta. But "nightlife" is a vague term. In my view, for people like me, nightlife is better than it's ever been. I don't go out to clubs, I enjoy pubs and neighborhood bars, and good beer.

There has a been a blossoming of beer culture in the Atlanta area, and I love it. Sweetwater and the Brick Store kicked things off, and it slowly built from there before an explosion in the past few years. You can find local beer in most bars in Atlanta now - a huge improvement over just a few years ago. We now have a number of world class beer bars in Atlanta, such as the Porter and Wrecking Bar. And yes, these places are actually in the "world class" category on Beeradvocate.com.

When I moved to Atlanta in 2007, my home town (Kalamazoo, MI, population 72,000) had more breweries and brewpubs than the city of Atlanta. But now there are seven breweries just in the Atlanta city limits, and the metro area has more than a dozen, including the very high quality Wild Heaven.

So, to each his own. I understand the lamenting of loss of club culture and 4AM mornings, but on the other hand I see the burgeoning of a fantastic beer-oriented nightlife centered on delightful neighborhood bars. Decatur, EAV, L5P, Midtown, VaHi, Poncey Highlands, Downtown, Midtown West... this trend is taking hold everywhere around the city.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by ChadK

What drives me crazier than the moniker is the fact that the billboards don't really face anything. The building and concept (original or no) is actually pretty decent.

I appreciate your compliments of the building, it was a friend of mine who designed the look (with help of course).

Right now the billboards don't face anything in particular, but ideally the College Football Hall of Fame would go up across the street which I would assume to be a high traffic area.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by scania

This maybe true, but it doesn't make up for the nightlife Atlanta had when there was once a true nightlife from Underground, to the Backstreet in Midtown, to the Village in Buckhead. Since the early/mid nineties, the nightlife experience in Atlanta has slowly dwindle. To be honest, some of the high-rises have taken away from the nightlife Atlanta had at one time. It would have been better to build new skyscrapers incorporated with existing buildings. That would have created a more urban vibe, and not just a high-rise here with nothing really adjacent to the high-rise. IMO, that would have created density.

How do you know it doesn't make up for the nightlife Atlanta had? As many others had said there's many more areas and many more places with nightlife than ever before. Prior there were a few areas (like Buckhead) that you could drink that were centered around the "nightclub" culture, which you can still find in Atlanta at places like Opera, but just because things have changed doesn't mean there isn't nightlife. In fact, I think most on here would argue there is much more nightlife than ever before.

I think the issue a few of the older posters have is that "their scene" that they used to know has changed, people get older/don't go out as much, and haven't adapted to the changing scenes.

You can still get that club culture at places like Opera, Reign and Crescent Ave., and there's tons of areas to go out in. Like others have said go to Decatur, Buckhead (East Andrews), Crescent Ave., EAV, L5Ps, Virginia-Highlands / Poncey-Highlands, and especially Edgewood which many people have pointed out have exploded with places like Church's, Noni's, and Soundtable. That's not even mentioning all the brewpups, roof top bars, and other unique places scattered around the city.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

In case anyone is interested, Atlanta's January jobs report was released and it is bordering on unbelievable. They massively revised 2011 jobs numbers; instead of us posting zero job growth, the latest numbers are indicating nearly 70,000 jobs added year over year. That would be on par with the boom years. Obviously this would be fantastic news (to the extent you can call revisions to past data "news").

I've started a blog on local economics that explains the release further:

JANUARY LABOR REPORT: ATLANTA POSTS MASSIVE EMPLOYMENT GAINS; BIG REVISIONS TO PAST FIGURES

This could definitely have big implications for metro Atlanta construction. Job growth is ultimately what it's all about.

Just to update on this, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics completely updated their databases on Atlanta's employment activity over the last 18 months. We have tracked at or above the national average, instead of being bottom of the barrel like the initial reports said.

Here is the chart that compares several measures of Atlanta's performance with peer cities, using the revised data:


(I have a cautionary note on the Jan-Jan figure that is second best in the nation in the blog.)

Local media seems loath to acknowledge this, but it's official. The data is all on the BLS website, and will slowly change the tone of news stories about Atlanta moving forward.

This could definitely lead to an uptick in development. My understanding is that payroll employment data is a substantial factor developers and financers think about when deciding whether or not to build spec projects. Any projects we have going on right now are in spite of bad payroll figures. Prior to this revision, we would have been ranked 25 or worse on every single one of the metrics in the chart above, probably vying with Sacramento for worst overall. Hopefully, projects will instead be able to use our middling-at-worst payroll figures to justify projects.

(Also, Detroit managed to have the second strongest employment gain using annual averages, right behind Houston. That's pretty remarkable.)

[simms3_redux]

These numbers generally are GREAT for development. Outside of multifamily (and even relatively speaking here, too), we are still in a point in the cycle where Atlanta will not benefit like some of the gateway markets. Even with superb employment statistics, I think you would be hard-pressed to find institutional capital clamoring to allocate money to Atlanta.

Also, as has been discussed, employment statistics require slightly less than a 30,000 foot view (i.e. we might need to look at this from a 25,000 ft view). For instance, Atlanta may have recovered a whopping 68,000 jobs this past year, making it 4th in the country in terms of sheer numbers. BUT we are still WAYYY below where we were, and your typical class A office user is continuing to downsize, consolidate space, produce shadow inventory, and lay off workers. These are your law firms, your banks, your real estate firms, your insurance firms, and your financial services firms. You will not see another office tower rise in Atlanta without a couple of major leases to the tune of 50% GLA for one lease or perhaps 50-70% GLA for two leases signed. I spoke with a friend today who works for a private equity developer, as do I, and he believes that to sign on such a tenant one must look to companies outside of Atlanta. Atlanta firms who are CBD office tower users in general are not expanding.

On the flip side, there is a boom in 21st century industries in Atlanta, ranging from tech to IT to health services to consulting firms and media firms. These firms are either going for small space in a CBD class A/B tower or they are going for office/industrial, office campus setting, or loft office. The latter is where there is potential growth in Atlanta, and if our employment growth in these 21st century industries continues, then places like the Westside and Ponce City Market and intown areas should benefit from an occupancy/office user standpoint.

Finally, it is my intuition born out of a mere year of experience that allocating capital in the first half of the year is important to companies. Once you start approaching 3Q and of course the 4Q, pocket books are starting to run dry for the year and you end up catching some of those institutions desperate to place some sort of capital (great for sellers, bad for everybody else). If there is a 6 month lag time to get the word out to buyers and developers that Atlanta employment is in fact ramping up and is showing extremely marked strides, it probably won't make a difference until next year anyway.

On the retail front it won't make a difference period. Retailers have long known Atlanta is a bad market and is overbuilt. Employment numbers won't change their perception. Lower vacancy and increased store sales will (so on the vacancy front it is sort of a catch 22 because the retailers you want and the retailers that set the metrics won't come in or expand until our vacancy improves, and our vacancy won't improve without these retailers coming in/expanding). Let's say our occupancy increases by a couple hundred basis points in the city of Atlanta, but all of the new stores are pawn shops and We Buy Gold stores. The real retailers will see the difference and still won't come in (in fact it's probably better to have high vacancy than a bunch of crap stores).

[simms3_redux]

Maynard Jackson International Terminal Tour

Today I had a chance to tour the new terminal with a group, and it was interesting to say the least. First there was an hour and a half long introduction to the terminal and the overall airport master plan. Maria Soporta was present and had quite a bit to say and several questions. She was concerned that there was not a new MARTA stop at the int'l terminal and that there were no high speed rail connections, which generally I totally agree with her and find her points totally on the ball. This time, however, I thought they were lagging. We would all like MARTA to go everywhere, and so would MARTA, but this isn't a question of why didn't we do this, this is a funding question. Also, it literally would not have been feasible to drop MARTA in under the new terminal from a construction standpoint. It still would have had to go to the Crescent Station (buses) in Clayton County and be fed to the terminal via shuttle.

The big takeaways to me were that:

1) This thing is opening May 16, 2012.

2) Current Concourse E will have capacity to service Korean Air's and Air France's A380s (Air France is not yet official).

3) A380s don't actually put a huge load on the runways. The added capacity is on the shoulders so that the engines do not travel over dirt, and it is on the gate, the timing (FAA regulates that no widebodies can be on the taxiways/runways parallel to an A380 at any given time), and the little door thing that you walk through to board (the A380 has 3 entrances and one whole floor is for business class/1st class passengers, and they are not allowed to be comingled with regular passengers).

A) The new terminal was not initially built to handle A380s as all the airlines said that Atlanta would not be a market.

4) Atlanta has roughly 500,000 passengers per gate per annum. This places it in the top 2-3 every year in terms of "at capacity." The international terminal will provide some alleviation, but ultimately Hartsfield is looking at building 38 more gates for domestic travel.

5) Passengers using the Int'l terminal can recheck their bags in the international terminal rather than using Terminal A, which has been a hastle in the past.

6) There will be a roadway coming straight from 75, but if you were to take 85 and park at the wrong terminal (the current terminal), then there is a shuttle that can take you to Terminal F, though when you return you would be parked on the wrong side.

7) The new terminal will be connected via people move. They were testing that out today.

8) The airport is owned and operated by the City of Atlanta, though none of our tax dollars go to support it. It is basically self-financed and financed through bonds. No separate authority operates the airport and Mayor Kasim Reed is ultimately the boss. Any capital expenditures north o $20,000 must be brought forth to the Atlanta City Council and approved.


Now on to the pictures:


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 1 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 2 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 3 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 4 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 5 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 6 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 9 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 8 by city_simmons, on Flickr


Maynard Jackson International Terminal 10 by city_simmons, on Flickr



Warning: Never go on a hard hat tour with a bunch of architects/engineers. I thought we were never going to leave the damn terminal and I was late returning to work. Not only are a zillion questions asked (well that was all Soporta during the talk), engineers and construction people want to see and explore every nook and cranny. I just want to know the basics and zoom through. I just want to know the end results and the benefits of the terminal.

Quite frankly, as you can see from the pictures, the actual architecture and the artwork leaves A LOT to be desired. I was completely underwhelmed. Hartsfield Airport as a whole from an operational standpoint is about as impressive as can be and blows any other airport out of the water, but from an architectural standpoint it sucks. Just saying! About $1,115psf later and the place looks no better than your average convention center or arena. I was hoping for something akin to Raleigh's new terminal, which is literally jaw droppingly gorgeous.

[shivtim]

^Thanks for the pics.

I'm not sure I get what the big deal is with no MARTA stop at the new terminal. The "Plane Train" automated people mover is being extended to have a stop at the new international terminal. So isn't that the MARTA connection? Complaining that the new terminal doesn't have a MARTA stop seems akin to complaining that there is no MARTA stop at the D terminal, or any other terminal for that matter.

Am I confused on this issue? Will people not be able to take MARTA to the existing airport stop, go through security, and take the Plane Train to their international gate?

[ATLonthebrain]

A few thoughts. ATL's new International Terminal may not be overly flashy, but it isn't because there weren't more grand plans for it initially. The airlines underwriting the bonds for its construction, meaning Delta, had a heavy hand in forcing the airport to do some extensive value engineering, to the tune of about $400 Million, in order to gain approval. That meant a lot of the "awesome & impressive" elements were dumbed down or eliminated altogether. Some other airports which have recently or are currently building new International Terminals have a deeper list of carriers utilizing the facility, such as LAX & SFO. But @ ATL, the lion's share of traffic is carried by DL, so it has the final say in any Majority-In-Interest matters.

The new Tom Bradley International Terminal @ LAX may be the most impressive in the U.S. when it is completed late next year, but it's only 18-gates and is a $1.7 Billion project for the airside portion alone. There was an additional $700 Million spent on upgrading the landside terminal portion (check-in, baggage, screening, etc.), so we're talking about $2.4 Billion total, twice the cost of ATL. It ends up being just a hair smaller in total square footage than ATL's, but is much more grand in appearance. It makes a major architectural statement, and that comes with a major price tag.

For the $1.2 Billion spent @ ATL, there's a lot more than meets the eye. It's not simply the 1.2M square foot structure. There was an extension of the people mover system, including a new underground maintenance facility. 10 additional people mover cars were purchased due to the increased demand on the system when the new terminal & concourse are online and operational. There was a new roadway system created to access the terminal from Airport Loop Road, two new parking garages were constructed, an expansive FIS facility stacked beneath the departures level and the corresponding corridors/escalators/elevators from Conc F gates to reach it, a new vertical transportation node constructed at the east end of Conc E to reach the people mover and walkways to Conc F, a sterile walkway for Atlanta-bound international arriving passengers from Conc E to Conc F for FIS processing, a ramp stressed to accommodate widebody aircraft at each of the 12-gates, and the ground (for the aircraft ramp) had to be raised about 40-feet around the terminal footprint to meet the level of the airfield behind Conc E. That's a whole lotta dirt, and it don't come cheap! In all, this terminal creates a 40-gate International complex when combined with Conc E.

The terminal @ RDU was built for about half the cost, but I'd argue it was a far simpler project in scope and physical size, and enough of the carriers (more diversified list at an airport which is not a hub for anyone) now using that facility were willing to underwrite the bonds for its construction. ATL's terminal, when combined with Conc E, will handle nearly 11 million passengers this year, the amount RDU's terminal can accommodate at its peak. And, ATL's facility has room to grow, allowing an expanded schedule of flights beyond the current demand. Yes, RDU Terminal 2 is gorgeous, without a doubt, but cannot be compared to ATL. For the money available for this long-overdue project at the World's Busiest Airport (maybe for another 2-years until Beijing surpasses it), I think the end result is moderately impressive, and much improved over the circa 1980 Midfield Terminal complex it joins, even with its various modernization efforts over the years.

[ATLonthebrain]

If you're arriving from an International point of origin, other than pre-cleared markets, you will not be able to utilize the underground People Mover system because once you clear Customs, you are in the public area of the terminal. Those passengers needing any type of Ground Transportation (aside from taxis, I suppose) will need to take an express shuttle over to the westside Domestic Terminal.

It is certainly the more cost-effective way to get them over there vs any crazy idea of having a different people mover or MARTA make the trek all the way around the airport. That would be sooooo expensive to create! And, it also continues to avoid the whole reason ATL has required terminating international passengers to re-check bags from Conc E to the Main Terminal. There simply isn't enough floor space on the people mover. Imagine if everyone got on with their bags at the east end Conc F station and then the people mover has to make 5-stops before reaching the Baggage Claim/Ground Transportation station. It would be packed by Conc C. So, in fact, there is now more capacity being created because those passengers will no longer be on the people mover at all.

Logistically, it will be short-term confusion for some who are used to the current procedure upon arrival in ATL. But, long-term, it is a good solution. Lastly, for those being met by someone or who have parked in the new long-term garage on the east side, it'll be a quick out-the-door and on your way for them!

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain

If you're arriving from an International point of origin, other than pre-cleared markets, you will not be able to utilize the underground People Mover system because once you clear Customs, you are in the public area of the terminal. Those passengers needing any type of Ground Transportation (aside from taxis, I suppose) will need to take an express shuttle over to the westside Domestic Terminal.

I'm still not following.

Say someone is coming from Paris to LA, and connecting through Atlanta. Once they land and go through customs in ATL, will they then have to go through security again before being able to take the automated people mover to their connecting gate? This would still necessitate that they re-check their luggage, because after clearing customs they wouldn't be able to take their luggage back through security.

Will someone leaving from Atlanta be able to take MARTA to the existing airport station, check their bags, go through security, and ride the automated people mover to the new international terminal? Or are you *required* to check in and go through security at the new terminal?

I guess my question is, what's a scenerio where someone would use the automated people mover to get to and from the new terminal to the old terminals (and thus have access to MARTA)?

[ATLonthebrain]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I'm still not following.

Say someone is coming from Paris to LA, and connecting through Atlanta. Once they land and go through customs in ATL, will they then have to go through security again before being able to take the automated people mover to their connecting gate? This would still necessitate that they re-check their luggage, because after clearing customs they wouldn't be able to take their luggage back through security.

Will someone leaving from Atlanta be able to take MARTA to the existing airport station, check their bags, go through security, and ride the automated people mover to the new international terminal? Or are you *required* to check in and go through security at the new terminal?

I guess my question is, what's a scenerio where someone would use the automated people mover to get to and from the new terminal to the old terminals (and thus have access to MARTA)?

If you're simply connecting from an international to domestic flight, there will be a bag re-check area after clearing Customs and an adjacent screening checkpoint for those passengers to access the people mover and reach the other concourses.

The question you ask about whether a person leaving ATL on an international flight will be able to check-in at the existing terminal is a good one. I suspect, if you are on Delta or any of the carriers in SkyTeam, the answer is yes. Delta will certainly have a presence in both terminals. If you're on, say, British Airways, I'm thinking no. Last I heard, that was still to-be-determined. I'd have to believe it's been decided by now, since opening is roughly 60-days away.

If you are flying domestic, and either can go to a kiosk in the new terminal or already have your boarding passes printed and no bags to check, you could certainly arrive at the new terminal, go through screening, and take the people mover to whichever concourse your flight will depart from.

If you are arriving internationally, and your destination is ATL, you will exit into the International Arrivals hall with your luggage and will not have the option of re-entering the sterile area as you will have no boarding pass for a flight out of ATL. Those passengers will either have to take the express shuttle over to the other terminal for Ground Transportation options or westside parking facilities, have their personal vehicle in the new long-term garage on the east side and take the shuttle to it, or be picked up by someone at the eastside terminal.

[simms3_redux]

Thank you very much ATLonthebrain. When I read your comments, I realized this is exactly what was discussed before my tour yesterdya, but being that I know nothing about airports I could not remember most of the details.

In the context that you put it in, perhaps Terminal F is more impressive than meets the eye.

[micropundit]

Atlanta has scored a $400,000 grant from IBM Corp. that will help the city develop a new economic development strategy, aimed at job creation.Invest Atlanta, the city’s economic development agency, applied for the grant.As part of the IBM Smarter Cities Challenge Grant, Big Blue is awarding $50 million worth of technology and services to 100 municipalities worldwide through 2013.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/atlantech/2012/03/atlanta-wins-ibm-smarter-cities.html

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by trainiac

Here's an alternate view from a few weeks ago atop 999 Peachtree

Here's another from this past weekend

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Anybody know what's being built on Metropolitan Parkway, just south of I-20? Seems to be a decent amount of site work and a building foundation.

Sigh. This unfortunately appears to be a gas station under construction. That little area has potential (historic warehouses, walking distance from MARTA, etc), and now it is going to have a gas station right in the middle of it forevermore.

It isn't even a very good location for a gas station, with no interstate access.

[AtlantaMustang]

Skyhouse is moving pretty quickly:



Taken by me yesterday.

[cityenthusiast]

Wow that seems insanely fast

[g-man435]

Skyhouse:


Homewood Suites/Hilton Garden Inn:

[cityenthusiast]

5 more floors to go on the hotel when is the cladding going to start anyone know?