Downtown Ottawa Casino

Ottawan · #1 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 2:41 PM**

Following yesterday's announcement by OLG, it is now a distinct possibility that a casino could be built reasonably soon in the core of Ottawa (see article below).

Where do people think it should be built? I've mentioned before my opinion that a casino could do alot to revitalize Sparks Street were it to be located there, but there are plenty of other good options.

Quote:

Ottawa could see downtown casino if OLG has its way

By lee greenberg, The Ottawa Citizen March 13, 2012 7:06 AM

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...#ixzz1p0YqocyA

TORONTO — Downtown Ottawa could soon host a casino as a result of a major overhaul of the province’s gaming assets announced Monday.

“Ottawa’s an important city in our overall plan,” said Paul Godfrey, chair of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming corporation (OLG). The government will seek private sector bids in the reopening or relocation of a gaming facility in Ottawa.

The overhaul announced Monday will bring an end to a funding agreement that allowed slot facilities at 17 racetracks across the province, including at Rideau Carleton Raceway on March 31, 2013.

Some slot facilities and charity casinos will be closed forever. However, the Citizen has learned Rideau Carleton’s ownership will have an opportunity to bid on a relocated gaming facility in the city. The Raceway is roughly 20 kilometres from downtown Ottawa, further even than the Ottawa airport. The OLG would like a facility closer to the city centre.

A spokesman for Rideau Carleton ignored multiple requests for comment on Monday. Currently Rideau Carleton operates 1,250 slot machines and is reportedly on the verge of receiving 21 table games.

“From my knowledge of the situation a lot of people go to Hull because it’s more convenient than to drive out to Rideau,” Godfrey, who is also CEO of Postmedia Inc., the company that owns the Citizen, said. “We want to put the facilities where the people happen to be. And that’s a discussion we will undertake probably starting in the next few days.”

The change of venue could also include a real overhaul of the gaming mix. Godfrey said the prospective new facilities in Ottawa and elsewhere could look more like real casinos, with an array of popular table games, including blackjack and poker.

However, any new Ottawa casino will need to have the full support of City Hall. Without municipal backing, it’s possible OLG will be forced to extend its deal with Rideau Carleton.

Mayor Jim Watson declined a request for an interview on the issue on Monday.

“We will be looking at the whole range of issues in the coming weeks and offering a comment in due course,” said his spokesman, Bruce Graham.

Opened in February 2000, Rideau Carleton’s slots facility employs 274 people and sees roughly 1.7 million patrons per year. Its owners, Robert Fasken and Warren Armstrong, are entitled to 10 per cent of slot revenue as part of its deal, as is the horse industry. In 2009-10, that cut was worth $28,854,000, according to the OLG’s annual report. The City of Ottawa received a much smaller remittance, $4.44 million.

For many in Ottawa, news of a possible new downtown casino will come as vindication. The city missed out on an opportunity when the first casinos were allowed in the province in 1993. Quebec beat Ontario to the punch by quickly approving and building the Casino de Lac Leamy, which opened its doors in 1996.

Since then, the catchment area of Ottawa has nearly doubled in population. Nevertheless, the Lac Leamy casino is still the only legal venue for table games in the region.

“I think we need to compete,” Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan said Monday. “A lot of Ontarians cross the border.”

For others, an expansion of gaming in the province is far from welcome. The OLG announcement Monday included news that the Greater Toronto Area will get its own casino. And while some outlets will close, the number of gaming facilities in the province will rise to 29 from 27. The province has maintained a moratorium on new gaming facilities since 2005.

OLG is also planning to expand the sale of lottery tickets, moving into big box retail stores and expanding within supermarkets from just the customer service desk to each cash register.

The province is also set to launch an online gaming service in 2013.

The government says the changes will stem the tide of losses at its border casinos, which, in the past decade, have dropped from $800 million profit to $100 million. Net gaming revenues to the province will increase by $1.3 billion annually (OLG currently generates $2 billion in net revenue for the province), according to the agency.

“The finance minister and the premier are gambling addicts,” said New Democrat MPP Rosario Marchese. “In my view, the majority of families will lose.”

But Duncan said the new revenue will help the province dig its way out of a $16-billion deficit.

“People are gambling and prohibition doesn’t work,” he said. “And what we’re suggesting is that we’re in this, we want to make sure we’re running it well and that the return to taxpayers is solid.”

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...#ixzz1p0YeJu6W

Ottawan · #2 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:27 PM**

OBJ Article: http://www.obj.ca/Local/Sports%20and...sino-reports/1

adam-machiavelli · #3 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:29 PM**

Oh heeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllll noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

This is how a casino works: steal money from the poor and desperate. Return money through anti-gambling addiction programs.

Casinos only make neighbourhoods sketchy and depressing.

eemy · #4 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:31 PM**

Count me in as someone opposed to this idea.

Jamaican-Phoenix · #5 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:32 PM**

If the Casino is going to be similar to the one in Hull, then I have a potentially radical idea; put it on one of the islands where the old mills used to be. I believe a building was recently demolished on one of the islands, so there's an option that could give great views of the city. Another (and more likely) option would be to put it somewhere along Rideau.

I'll be honest, but I find the idea of a casino on Sparks Street offensive. Not only is it a stone's throw from Parliament Hill, but I feel very strongly that Sparks Street's heritage buildings should be preserved as much as possible, and filled with more high-end retail, restaurants, etc. I'm not opposed to an Ottawa-based casino, but I'm not enthusiastic about the idea either.

reidjr · #6 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Oh heeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllll noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

This is how a casino works: steal money from the poor and desperate. Return money through anti-gambling addiction programs.

Casinos only make neighbourhoods sketchy and depressing.

The thing is if there is not a casino in Ottawa people will go to Gatineau or the many around the area.

reidjr · #7 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 3:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

If the Casino is going to be similar to the one in Hull, then I have a potentially radical idea; put it on one of the islands where the old mills used to be. I believe a building was recently demolished on one of the islands, so there's an option that could give great views of the city. Another (and more likely) option would be to put it somewhere along Rideau.

I'll be honest, but I find the idea of a casino on Sparks Street offensive. Not only is it a stone's throw from Parliament Hill, but I feel very strongly that Sparks Street's heritage buildings should be preserved as much as possible, and filled with more high-end retail, restaurants, etc. I'm not opposed to an Ottawa-based casino, but I'm not enthusiastic about the idea either.

There are some casino's that are high end.

Ottawan · #8 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I'll be honest, but I find the idea of a casino on Sparks Street offensive. Not only is it a stone's throw from Parliament Hill, but I feel very strongly that Sparks Street's heritage buildings should be preserved as much as possible, and filled with more high-end retail, restaurants, etc. I'm not opposed to an Ottawa-based casino, but I'm not enthusiastic about the idea either.

Fair enough. I was thinking of something tasteful (James Bond-esque casino, not Las Vegas Casino), and certainly not replacing any of the heritage buildings. It could be constructed as part of the replacement tower for the Place de Ville podium, for example.

Maybe Rideau Street is more appropriate and a more likely location, however.

ajldub · #9 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 5:14 PM**

I wouldn't put it near Rideau. The whole market/lowertown area is only 10 or so years away from being a rough area; a casino could bring back some bad habits. There are enough small nondescript buildings with surface parking in the downtown core that could be levelled for a casino. It would give the core the nighttime draw it needs, too. Alternatively a casino could be used to kickstart development around Lebreton/Bayview/Tunney's. But more importantly, what has happened in the province to bring us to looking at gambling revenues to balance our books?

lrt's friend · #10 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 5:23 PM**

A downtown casino needs to be on Sparks Street to bring life and new business there. I always wonder how well utilized all those old heritage buildings are. Surely, a few could be renovated to make them suitable. I could easily see new restaurants appearing and that could start a snowball affect of other new retailers returning to Sparks Street.

reidjr · #11 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajldub

I wouldn't put it near Rideau. The whole market/lowertown area is only 10 or so years away from being a rough area; a casino could bring back some bad habits. There are enough small nondescript buildings with surface parking in the downtown core that could be levelled for a casino. It would give the core the nighttime draw it needs, too. Alternatively a casino could be used to kickstart development around Lebreton/Bayview/Tunney's. But more importantly, what has happened in the province to bring us to looking at gambling revenues to balance our books?

Part of the issue is many want every thing under the sun but don't want to pay for it from free education to free day care the list is endless what people want.

Ottawan · #12 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajldub

But more importantly, what has happened in the province to bring us to looking at gambling revenues to balance our books?

Good question. The next logical step of course will be for the provincial government to lobby the feds to legalize marijuana and allow the provinces to regulate and tax it. They could argue that it would pay for full-day kindergarten.

The new LCBO: The Liquor and Canabis Board of Ontario?

Admiral Nelson · #13 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 7:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

A downtown casino needs to be on Sparks Street to bring life and new business there. I always wonder how well utilized all those old heritage buildings are. Surely, a few could be renovated to make them suitable. I could easily see new restaurants appearing and that could start a snowball affect of other new retailers returning to Sparks Street.

I kind of agree with this - if it was on the western end of Sparks, which is dead.

Kitchissippi · #14 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 7:48 PM**

A downtown casino is a bad idea — easy access to gambling near workplaces is inappropriate and can cause a lot of problems. We've already had a clergyman squander his church's money gambling, do we really want to dangle a carrot in front of people working for the public service on their lunch hour? The Lac Leamy casino was built in a relatively hard to access area for a reason, otherwise why wasn't it built in downtown Hull if it were truly good for urban renewal?

The casino in Windsor ON is an example, it is fricken gawdawful, a casino eating the city. In as much as people get addicted to gambling, casinos get addicted to expansion. They need to be placed in areas where they can spread out in all their tacky glory. My vote? Put it right beside Scotiabank Place provided it fully pays for the LRT extension all the way out there.

reidjr · #15 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 8:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

A downtown casino is a bad idea — easy access to gambling near workplaces is inappropriate and can cause a lot of problems. We've already had a clergyman squander his church's money gambling, do we really want to dangle a carrot in front of people working for the public service on their lunch hour? The Lac Leamy casino was built in a relatively hard to access area for a reason, otherwise why wasn't it built in downtown Hull if it were truly good for urban renewal?

The casino in Windsor ON is an example, it is fricken gawdawful, a casino eating the city. In as much as people get addicted to gambling, casinos get addicted to expansion. They need to be placed in areas where they can spread out in all their tacky glory. My vote? Put it right beside Scotiabank Place provided it fully pays for the LRT extension all the way out there.

I don't think it really matters you put it downtown its near office buildings you put it by the bank its near office buildings.

phil235 · #16 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

A downtown casino is a bad idea — easy access to gambling near workplaces is inappropriate and can cause a lot of problems. We've already had a clergyman squander his church's money gambling, do we really want to dangle a carrot in front of people working for the public service on their lunch hour? The Lac Leamy casino was built in a relatively hard to access area for a reason, otherwise why wasn't it built in downtown Hull if it were truly good for urban renewal?

The casino in Windsor ON is an example, it is fricken gawdawful, a casino eating the city. In as much as people get addicted to gambling, casinos get addicted to expansion. They need to be placed in areas where they can spread out in all their tacky glory. My vote? Put it right beside Scotiabank Place provided it fully pays for the LRT extension all the way out there.

I'm also pretty uncomfortable with the idea of a casino downtown. I don't think that is the right way to revitalize a street like Sparks. The arrival of Target, Les 3 Brasseurs and a less rigid landlord on the north side of the street may be enough to do that.

If there has t be a casino, I agree, near Scotiabank Place is the best spot. Maybe they can get some more use out of those parking lots.

reidjr · #17 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil235

I'm also pretty uncomfortable with the idea of a casino downtown. I don't think that is the right way to revitalize a street like Sparks. The arrival of Target, Les 3 Brasseurs and a less rigid landlord on the north side of the street may be enough to do that.

If there has t be a casino, I agree, near Scotiabank Place is the best spot. Maybe they can get some more use out of those parking lots.

Why do you think it would be better out there?

Kitchissippi · #18 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 9:28 PM**

I hate casinos but it this way: if you are going to build a casino in Ottawa, it has to compete and out-do the casino in Lac Leamy in some way, otherwise don't bother. Its a go big or go home thing. There just isn't room in downtown Ottawa to do that. A dinky little place to play cards, roll dice and pull levers on Sparks Street will look pathetic when they have 50 foot ceilings, live theatre and concerts, a five-star restaurant and a place to dock you mini-yacht across the river. Build it out by SBP, you could pretty well do anything, heck you can bring in the circus if you like.

reidjr · #19 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 9:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I hate casinos but it this way: if you are going to build a casino in Ottawa, it has to compete and out-do the casino in Lac Leamy in some way, otherwise don't bother. Its a go big or go home thing. There just isn't room in downtown Ottawa to do that. A dinky little place to play cards, roll dice and pull levers on Sparks Street will look pathetic when they have 50 foot ceilings, live theatre and concerts, a five-star restaurant and a place to dock you mini-yacht across the river. Build it out by SBP, you could pretty well do anything, heck you can bring in the circus if you like.

There really is not that much room out be the arena.

Ottawan · #20 Posted **Mar 13, 2012, 9:50 PM**

It's been interesting reading this debate so far. I sympathize strongly with the concerns about problem gambling, but this hasn't factored too much into my thoughts on a potential casino, which I feel may be a good thing for Ottawa.

This is because in the year 2012, the problem gaming is already occurring online, whether at home or at work (of course, Ontario is getting in on that as well). I don't think people go to casinos as much on compulsive trips as they may have in the past. I think casino patronage is more driven by tourism, conferences, businessmen, and people going occasionally for a night on the town.

In terms of larger sites near the core, the following may work: Bayview, Tunney's, Dow's Lake (the land under and in front of the Sir John Carling building is not actually a protected part of the experimental farm), Hurdman, etc.

Ultimately, the location is going to largely be driven by market forces as OLG is not looking to develop a casino itself, but to have a private party bid on the right to do so. It is possible that private interests will decide that the appropriate location is out by Scotiabank Place, or attached to the Rideau Carleton Raceway rather than downtown. It will be interesting to see what (if any) proposals come forward.