LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[alki]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Do we want downtown to stay economically diverse and affordable to artists? Or "upscale" and comparable to the most notorious parts of the inequity-drenched westside?

On a personal note I think i'm going to have to leave downtown for a while (will probably sublet my place if I'm hopefully allowed to), due to expenses and the financial state of the film projects I'm working on (I have to save $). For what I'm paying for a studio apartment on Spring Street, I could be getting a one bedroom in Los Feliz. This doesn't even account for the expensive factor of downtown parking!

Unfortunately, that's what happens when a neighborhood becomes more popular. The only way to counteract that trend is to get gov't and non profit involvement early on when building prices are still affordable. Unfortunately, no one has a crystal ball that guarantees a neighborhood will get more prosperous...........and even if they had such a crystal ball, by their very nature, gov't agencies can't move fast enough to take full advantage of a trend.

[alki]

Originally Posted by pesto

alki: no chance for DT to supplant CC, BC or the Grove. Their location is too good, near the wealthy and well-to-do and near other amenities (restaurants, media and professional employers, etc.)

Oh I don't know.........LA is all about change. I think it could happen for a number of reasons.

First of all, there are a lot of affluent people in the Hollywood Hills, Silverlake, and Los Feliz where getting DT is much easier than the westside. Then there are the well off who live in Mt. Washington, S. Pas and Pasadena. They mostly got to Glendale now but they could just as easily go to DTLA. And then there are all the students at USC.......nearly 40K strong.......who have considerable disposable income.

Secondly, DTLA is expected to grow as a residential neighborhood. Its not unreasonable to expect it could grow to 75K strong.......mostly middle income and affluent.....in the next 15 years. And if DT is done up correctly, I could easily see DT poaching customers from the BC and the Grove.

I mean.....look how fickle Angelenos are.......when I first got to LA you went to Westwood to see a film open. A few years later it was SM. And then a few more years later, it was everywhere. I don't think its a stretch to believe that retail loyalties could change just as easily.

Originally Posted by citywatch

alki, the article on the proj was posted to latimes.com 2 days ago & it details how the interior of the bldg is quite a mess. It's so bad the owners imply they'll have to pretty much gut everything on the inside, leaving only the shell remaining. whether they do that or not, I wonder if it's more risky for them to convert it into a hotel instead of apts? then again, I remember a time before the bottega louie restaurant opened that I thought its owners were being too ambitious. but I would think the demand for boutique type hotels already will be greatly covered when the old UA theater bldg on broadway a few blocks away becomes a hotel.

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it makes more sense to tear down and build a bigger bldg given its surroundings.

[bobcat]

I don't see DTLA ever "supplanting" the Westside as a retail destation, but rather becoming a kind of counterpoint to that showbiz dominated neck of the woods. Believe it or not, there are a lot of affluent folks in LA who have nothing to do with showbiz and who don't particularly care to hobnob with that group. DTLA could very well become the retail destination for that group of individuals. Retailers who set up in DTLA would cater to a different type of consumer and carry a different mix of goods than those stores found in SM, BH, etc.

[Kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Four of my friends also just moved out of downtown in the past 3 months, due to the impending gentrification many here seem to be cheerleading.

The musician/composer moved to Echo Park, the documentary filmmaker to Long Beach, the photographer back to Florida.

The fourth had to leave the city altogether due to a health crisis. But it's a sobering fact: downtown is not going to stay accessible to the very crowd that helped kickstart this revival, but few outside the arts community seems to care about that. Despite naming medicore new restaurants "artisan house"

Very interesting observations. DTLA, for better or worse, certainly is moving away from the artist-heavy vibe and presence that helped put it on the map. It definitely is becoming much more yuppie/DINK, as seen with by the rapidly-growing number of $$$ establishments that cater to them. Same with the pricey lofts, too.

It is unfortunate that the very people who re-established DTLA might not be around to enjoy and reap the full benefits of its revitalization, but that is almost always what happens in gentrification and redevelopment cycles. That said, the need for cheap rent and larger spaces is paramount for artists/musicians/writers/"creative types", and many have heeded the call for such by moving to Boyle Heights/Lincoln Heights. Cities are constantly in flux, with new places evolving and coming online. Still, though, I think the spirit and legacy of the said groups will linger around for quite some time, as will their numbers. Overall, though, it will trend more mainstream/professional - I mean, who else is going to be able to afford those restaurants and lofts?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

They have installed a bridge on the roof connected the two legs of the building and have made other improvements on the roof. its weird how there isnt much info on this project.

thanks for that bit of info! But it's not just the embassy but also their clark hotel proj that is being worked on in almost total secrecy. It's a bit worrisome cuz I sometimes wonder if their slow pace & lack of formal publicity means they're underfunded & are the type of owners who end up with such a cash flow problem that they may be forced to walk away from a proj at the last minute. I hope not!

I think this thread needs a pic right about now, so here's the current parking lot where the only totally new proj is supposed to break ground next----either that one or the new hotel on Olympic across from LA Live. The 7 story apt bldg across from the convention ctr on Fig is supposed to begin work in April & will replace this gap....


maps.google.com

^ So when construction crews finally move in there, I'll.....

Originally Posted by alki

That's me.......I am weird that way. And for me DTLA would do it, not Laguna Niguel. My only complaint........very few of my friends shared my preferences.

None of the really great major cities in the US or throughout the world have lots of ppl, both those who live in those cities or who are visiting them, so standoffish about a major part of such cities. iow, far more ppl in those places share a common POV about their preferences. so burbanites in a city like NYC or London, or smaller cities like SF or boston, aren't as polarized about the burbs vs the non burbs of their respective cities. An example of what I mean is that I can see ppl in laguna being more positive about visiting SF than dtla, or visiting NYC, berlin, tokyo instead of dtla.

When it comes to LA's west side vs east side, I've read that ppl in parts of LA are more likely to travel to european cities or other cities in the US than visit dtla. that's the price the city is paying for taking so long to clean up & improve dt.

as for ppl on modest budgets being able to afford to live in dtla? I thought the huge apt proj across from the sci-arc school is supposed to include housing for struggling----or at least semi struggling----artists? btw, some forumers several wks ago were wondering whether work finally has begun on that proj. So what's up with that?

[colemonkee]

I deleted a lot of off topic posts. Anyone's definition of "westside" or "eastside," whether objective or subjective, has nothing - NOTHING - to do with Downtown projects and developments, which is the topic of this forum. Please keep posts in this forum on that very subject.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by alki

Brigham, re. the La Cañada freeway park cap that you show on your blog, do you know how much it cost to build and how many blocks is it? In addition, was it necessary to build a significant ventilation system to get rid of car fumes? Seattle is building a freeway tunnel under its DT and ventilating fumes was a big issue.

I always invisioned building parks over the 101[?] between DT and the MacArthur side of DT and building retail along the existing overpasses that opens to both the street as well as to the park side. I thought development of the retail could offset the cost of building the parks.

It's only about a two-block tunnel, so I doubt there is any sort of substantial ventilation system. I've never noticed any sort of conspicuous ventilation shafts when I've been at the park.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Four of my friends also just moved out of downtown in the past 3 months, due to the impending gentrification many here seem to be cheerleading.

The musician/composer moved to Echo Park, the documentary filmmaker to Long Beach, the photographer back to Florida.

The fourth had to leave the city altogether due to a health crisis. But it's a sobering fact: downtown is not going to stay accessible to the very crowd that helped kickstart this revival, but few outside the arts community seems to care about that. Despite naming medicore new restaurants "artisan house"

It's unfortunate that happens, but that's gentrifiction. Would we rather have a downtown today that has people walking the streets at midnight on 7th street and Spring street going to bars/restaurants or go back to a downtown that was dead after 8 pm with cheaper rents? Sorry, but as downtown becomes more interesting, some people will be forced out. We can't continue to be a welfare environment...it's just progression.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Four of my friends also just moved out of downtown in the past 3 months, due to the impending gentrification many here seem to be cheerleading.

The musician/composer moved to Echo Park, the documentary filmmaker to Long Beach, the photographer back to Florida.

The fourth had to leave the city altogether due to a health crisis. But it's a sobering fact: downtown is not going to stay accessible to the very crowd that helped kickstart this revival, but few outside the arts community seems to care about that. Despite naming medicore new restaurants "artisan house"

This is fairly common. But the artists didn't start anything; they were simply taking advantage of prices for large spaces that hit rock bottom (typically derelicts or abandoned). Sometimes they stay forever, but if the city is lucky enough to become desirable, they get priced out and find some other low priced area. In NY, this is almost a march, from the center of Manhattan to the fringes to nearby Brooklyn, to central Brooklyn, etc. SF used to be artists in Media Gulch, then SoMa, now "outer SoMa" to coin a phrase. And who can afford Soho in London or the Left Bank in Paris or Mitte in Berlin, etc.?

[BrandonJXN]

Weee!! I live downtown!! Well..Westlake..but I'm a 10 minute walk away. Joy!

[pesto]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Weee!! I live downtown!! Well..Westlake..but I'm a 10 minute walk away. Joy!

Better get ready to move, you're about the be priced out! May want to buy some older sfh's and resell to the developers in a few years. How fortunes are started.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by pesto

Better get ready to move, you're about the be priced out! May want to buy some older sfh's and resell to the developers in a few years. How fortunes are started.

I was hoping for a 'congrats on the move' or something along those lines but I suppose this will do.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Weee!! I live downtown!! Well..Westlake..but I'm a 10 minute walk away. Joy!

Congrats! I'm curious, how many... umm... hipsters, I guess would be the word (connotations that come with it or not) are in your area in Westlake? I'm curious since I've always expected that area to start gentrifying, but it always seems to be a holdout from that process. You're young, and hip, and by moving into an older, poorer area, that makes you a gentrifier, and one of the first, at that. Is their a community of gentrifiers in the area, or are you sort of alone in that regard?

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Congrats! I'm curious, how many... umm... hipsters, I guess would be the word (connotations that come with it or not) are in your area in Westlake? I'm curious since I've always expected that area to start gentrifying, but it always seems to be a holdout from that process. You're young, and hip, and by moving into an older, poorer area, that makes you a gentrifier, and one of the first, at that. Is their a community of gentrifiers in the area, or are you sort of alone in that regard?

Well..as far as I can tell, the area hasn't gentrified much. Which isn't to say it won't as I found a large studio for $650. I supposed I'm one of the first to help gentrify Westlake because I haven't seen any other gay 6'6 black guys walking down Alvarado. Although I feel as though this area, while having tons of potential of becoming an area like Silverlake, it has too much of a neighborhood presence I think.

[Easy]

I drove by the Lorenzo today. I didn't have time to park and take pictures, but was blown away by how large it is. It's huge!

There's also some site prep for something at Grand and 23rd on the other side of Grand from the Lorenzo. It's right across the street from the Lorenzo, but not sure what it is.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Do we want downtown to stay economically diverse and affordable to artists? Or "upscale" and comparable to the most notorious parts of the inequity-drenched westside?

On a personal note I think i'm going to have to leave downtown for a while (will probably sublet my place if I'm hopefully allowed to), due to expenses and the financial state of the film projects I'm working on (I have to save $). For what I'm paying for a studio apartment on Spring Street, I could be getting a one bedroom in Los Feliz. This doesn't even account for the expensive factor of downtown parking!

Honestly, it was the shit that you get for your $$$ in Los Feliz that drove me to look for a place in DTLA. If anything, I felt like DTLA was at least comparable (if not cheaper) than Los Feliz. Most of what you find in that area is old, not well taken care of, and several blocks away from anything of interest on Hillhurst or Vermont.

[travanx]

Like I said myself and my fiance will be leaving at the end of May as well. Too expensive, too dangerous, and just plain nasty. Been hearing a lot of people trying to fight other people over the last few days, even trying to fight with our security. We just got a warning from LAPD that there has been a major increase in car crimes too.

We are looking at buying a 2 bedroom condo near LA, in a much nicer City, which would be cheaper and 500+ sq. ft. larger than where we are currently. I hear people talking in our elevators about knowing others who are moving out too with rent becoming too expensive.

To add another thing about why so many projects are just hanging around with no updates. We are working on a job in Culver City that the developer had some unrealistic timelines, but generally all of the consultants somehow met them. There is a lot of jumping through hoops on even medium sized projects that just pop up and you have to roll with the punches. We can turn our plans around pretty quickly just like the other private consultants, but certain govt. and sort of govt. agencies take forever. Forever is probably being too nice. And then everything needs to line up. Rinse and repeat and a project that was possibly able to break ground in 4 months turns into something more like 7-8 months if everything goes smoothly.

They stopped calling one of the buildings a newer grocery store name coming to the States as they are not going to hit the target date of being done, which might have killed the lease agreement. Now its just called Building B. I know that City of LA is even more difficult to get certain parts of a project through planning. Not to mention all of the financial issues still going on.

A lot of the projects that will get done, will be using a lot of magic as no sensible person would go through all the mess to build something right now.

Originally Posted by Vangelist

Four of my friends also just moved out of downtown in the past 3 months, due to the impending gentrification many here seem to be cheerleading.

The musician/composer moved to Echo Park, the documentary filmmaker to Long Beach, the photographer back to Florida.

The fourth had to leave the city altogether due to a health crisis. But it's a sobering fact: downtown is not going to stay accessible to the very crowd that helped kickstart this revival, but few outside the arts community seems to care about that. Despite naming medicore new restaurants "artisan house"

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by travanx

Like I said myself and my fiance will be leaving at the end of May as well. Too expensive, too dangerous, and just plain nasty. Been hearing a lot of people trying to fight other people over the last few days, even trying to fight with our security. We just got a warning from LAPD that there has been a major increase in car crimes too.

We are looking at buying a 2 bedroom condo near LA, in a much nicer City, which would be cheaper and 500+ sq. ft. larger than where we are currently. I hear people talking in our elevators about knowing others who are moving out too with rent becoming too expensive.

To add another thing about why so many projects are just hanging around with no updates. We are working on a job in Culver City that the developer had some unrealistic timelines, but generally all of the consultants somehow met them. There is a lot of jumping through hoops on even medium sized projects that just pop up and you have to roll with the punches. We can turn our plans around pretty quickly just like the other private consultants, but certain govt. and sort of govt. agencies take forever. Forever is probably being too nice. And then everything needs to line up. Rinse and repeat and a project that was possibly able to break ground in 4 months turns into something more like 7-8 months if everything goes smoothly.

They stopped calling one of the buildings a newer grocery store name coming to the States as they are not going to hit the target date of being done, which might have killed the lease agreement. Now its just called Building B. I know that City of LA is even more difficult to get certain parts of a project through planning. Not to mention all of the financial issues still going on.

A lot of the projects that will get done, will be using a lot of magic as no sensible person would go through all the mess to build something right now.

You sound very bitter. Look, downtown LA has immense demand today than it did 10 years ago. Look at Spring street and 7th street after 7 pm at night.......it's literally night/day in terms of nightlife than 10 years ago. So to say its "going to s***s" is just more emotional than truth. Also, there is still plenty of new restaurants/buildings/development happening in downtown LA than in a lot of other parts of LA. So there is demand people. But maybe for you, it's just not there. Sorry, I haven't heard the mass exodus of rumors in my building and we're so happy to get a brand new Starbucks downstairs and the cafe opening up catty-corner from us....here at 9th/Flower.

There's a reason rents are high here........because people want to be here.

[Lovetowers]

Can someone do a future simulation of the LA skyline like with most of the future projects? or does anyone know where I can find a pic or simulation like that ?

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by travanx

Like I said myself and my fiance will be leaving at the end of May as well. Too expensive, too dangerous, and just plain nasty. Been hearing a lot of people trying to fight other people over the last few days, even trying to fight with our security. We just got a warning from LAPD that there has been a major increase in car crimes too.

We are looking at buying a 2 bedroom condo near LA, in a much nicer City, which would be cheaper and 500+ sq. ft. larger than where we are currently. I hear people talking in our elevators about knowing others who are moving out too with rent becoming too expensive.

Frankly, you sounds like something has happened to give you this view of DTLA. Really, what you say concerning the crime and the grit, doesn't really have any bearings on reality (unless you live on Skid Row). I mean, I haven't heard of one murder outside of Skid Row over the past two years, and I wasn't part of the DT Movement before that. So, I don't know what you mean about it being dangerous. Of course, what you say about DT being 'nasty' is completely subjective, but from my experiences it is no worse then any other major urban city.

Anyways, as others have said, if these problems you speak about are really an issue, then why would rents be rising so much? And why, despite the rising rents, would downtown have only a vacancy rate of 3%?