Highways in Canada

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Wharn

That's not really much of an excuse considering Harris based his entire political mantra on making cuts. He reduced spending and had nothing to show for it, whereas McGuinty has been completely out of control and has nothing to show for it.

The most critical Northern connections are not finished. Highway 400 is still not finished to Sudbury. There are still gaps in Highway 11 to North Bay. The 417 has been proceeding at an agonizingly slow pace. Then in the south, we have jokes like the stalling 424 and the graded but unfinished Collingwood Bypass:

Hwy 26 is a case of McGuinty killing a highway ... I do agree with that.

But for the others, the 417 has been built at a snails pace for years, in fact Stirling (then Conservative Transportation Minister) said that the 417 through Arnprior wouldn't be started until Hwy 7 was built to Carleton Place -- obviously that hasn't been the case.

The twinning of Hwy 11 and 69 is about where it should be. Twinning contracts have been coming with about the same frequency under the liberals as they were under the Conservatives.

HOV lane implementation was undertaken by the Liberals. Some serious reconstruction of the 417 has taken place or is currently underway.

The Windsor Essex Parkway is underway, which I see as a pretty big deal.

Objectively, I don't see how you can think that the Liberals are doing much of a different job then the Conservatives did before them when it comes to our highways.

Originally Posted by Tibor420

the proposed highway 424 from Cambridge to Hamilton (combined CMA pop of 1.2 million)... anywhere else in Canada these would be a given...

There is some pretty serious local opposition to the 424. A study was underway a couple of years ago, if it isn't still. Same goes for the widening of Highway 7/8 between New Hamburg and Stratford. Ever since the freeway revolts of the 1970s the public has to buy into new road construction, which is has become increasingly difficult in some parts of the province.


(Photo from 2009).

[haljackey]

Yup there are some freeways Ontario needs right now to handle the volumes exploding population centres are creating.

-Highway 424 - makes a lot of sense... Was a route ever slected though?
-Halton-Peel Freeway... not sure of the '400' number
-Bradford bypass - don't think it has a 400 number yet
-Mid-pen highway (408?) - It should also be built with enough right of way to support a high-speed rail line.

Other good but less important freeways Ontario could see:
-Ottawa Ring Road
-London Ring Road (includes upgrading Veterans Memorial Parkway)
-Halon Freeway (upgrading the Halon Parkway)
-Highway 3 / St. Thomas Expressway - converting it to a freeway with extensions
-Highway 448? (Running through the Gatneau Hydro corridor between the DVP and 401 in Toronto)
-Highway 400 extension (take strain off 401 and 427)
-Making Highway 35/115 a freeway to Peterborough
-Highway 17 twinning between Sault St. Marie and Sudbury (Highway 400) or North Bay

Nationally, Making Highway 2 in Alberta a freeway all the way from Edmonton to the US Border would be cool. Additional freeway sections on the Trans-Canada between Vancouver and Calgary would also do a lot for traffic flow.

What else? (Wishlist)

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Wharn

That's not really much of an excuse considering Harris based his entire political mantra on making cuts. He reduced spending and had nothing to show for it, whereas McGuinty has been completely out of control and has nothing to show for it.

The Harris administration spent themselves into a deficit when the economy was booming. McGuinty turned that deficit into a surplus that he maintained for years until the global economy crashed in 2008. Harris and Eves were out of control, McGuinty ran a deficit when it was impossible not not.

Originally Posted by Tibor420

The Cons outweigh the Pros tho in Transportation... I mean look at the highway 7 debacle between Kitchener and Guelph... in talks for how many decades and still 2 CMA's w/ a combined Pop of near 650,000 are connected primarily by a single 2 lane road... i mean seriously??? or the proposed highway 424 from Cambridge to Hamilton (combined CMA pop of 1.2 million)... anywhere else in Canada these would be a given...

True, and I'll add to that. Anywhere else outside North America those cities would be linked to each other by frequent regional trains. I'd support new highways like the 424, but only if they're built along with passenger rail and strict land use controls so they don't cause more sprawl.

-Highway 448? (Running through the Gatneau Hydro corridor between the DVP and 401 in Toronto)
-Highway 400 extension (take strain off 401 and 427)
-Making Highway 35/115 a freeway to Peterborough

Mid-pen isn't needed, that corridor is perfect for high speed rail. Central Toronto doesn't need more freeways, they'd just cause bigger traffic problems. What's needed there is more subways and upgrading the GO lines to real regional rail. The 115 is already a full freeway except for the part closest to the 401. That part will be bypassed when the 407 is extended to the 115.

[eemy]

I don't think anything will happen with a Hwy 424 until the Mid-Peninsula Highway alignment is sorted out. I also am not convinced that emphasizing alternate modes of transportation will adequately address the issue with the QEW through the Niagara Peninsula. There is really no room to expand the existing freeway since it runs through very valuable agricultural land. I am unconvinced that high-speed rail would be a sufficient response in the long term - a new corridor is going to have to be considered eventually.

I am most concerned about how they address the MPH corridor between Toronto and Hamilton since there is a lot of environmentally sensitive land between Cambridge and Hamilton and it will be almost impossible to avoid it. Funnelling traffic onto the 403 isn't really a long term solution either since it is physically constrained already as well.

I've had an absolutely mad idea of a bridge between the 406 and 403 in Oakville for a little while now. It almost makes sense to me. 50 km... longest bridge in the world!

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I don't think anything will happen with a Hwy 424 until the Mid-Peninsula Highway alignment is sorted out. I also am not convinced that emphasizing alternate modes of transportation will adequately address the issue with the QEW through the Niagara Peninsula. There is really no room to expand the existing freeway since it runs through very valuable agricultural land. I am unconvinced that high-speed rail would be a sufficient response in the long term - a new corridor is going to have to be considered eventually.

I find it such a common misconception that the QEW cannot be widened between Hamilton and St. Catharines. Take a look at the google map image below:

http://g.co/maps/7qb67

Notice how far the outside footing for the overhead sign truss is away from the outside median barrier. Further, notice how far the ditch is away from the current outside lane. The QEW is already designed to be an eight lane roadway between Hamilton and St. Catharines. It could be widened as such with effective zero effect on the surrounding landscape.

Should the MTO elect to go with the addition of an HOV lane in lieu of general purpose lanes between St. Catharines and Hamilton, technically to meet standards, all of the existing overhead signs, which were designed for an eight lane cross-section, would need to be replaced.

[Blitz]

Kitchener, Guelph, Cambridge, and Brantford all need to be connected better through 400-series highways. If this was the US, there would be highways all over the place in that region.

[Symz]

source:http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/02/17/first-of-14-parkway-diversion-roads-opens/

First of 14 parkway diversion roads opens


Let the detours begin.
MPP Teresa Piruzza was the first member of the public to drive down Diversion 1 on Friday, the first of 14 temporary roads being built to keep traffic flowing during construction of the $1.4-billion Windsor-Essex Parkway.
The 600-metre roadway, complete with street lights, is the parkway’s first real completed construction project, officials said at a ceremony held immediately after Piruzza (L — Windsor West) completed her slow ceremonial drive in a black Chrysler minivan. Linking Lambton Road to Spring Garden Road, it’s intended to keep people living in the Spring Garden area from being landlocked once Bethlehem Avenue is closed for about a year at Huron Church Road. It opens to the public on Tuesday.
It’s taken months to build at a cost of roughly $200,000 and will be used for about a year before it’s ripped out, project director Michael Hatchell said. Next to come are diversions 2 and 3 on the other side of Huron Church at Labelle Street, while an extension of Highway 401 (seven metres below grade) to a new downriver bridge is built, along with an adjacent road for local traffic, 300 acres of parkland, 20 kilometres of bike paths and 12 park-like tunnel tops over the truck route.
“The whole purpose of these diversions is to maintain traffic during construction, to make sure people have access to get to work, get their kids to school and get to businesses,” Hatchell said.
It’s not unusual to build temporary roads when you have such a massive project in an area with existing homes and roadways, he said. Most of the 14 diversion roads should be open within the next year. The entire project is on schedule for completion in 2014.
Hatchell said the project had some early delays, but the mild winter has allowed crews to catch up.
Piruzza marvelled at the enormity of the project.
“I drive this (Huron Church) road every day, driving my kids back and forth to activities, and I’m just amazed by the progress that’s occurring,” she said.
All the activity underlines that the project is creating jobs, she said. “People are working here.”
So far, 2,500 people have completed the training required to work on the project, she said. “And the numbers will only grow.”
The Ontario government estimates the parkway project will result in 12,000 jobs when all the spinoffs are included.

There is also a small video at the link provided.


Here is a link to a large gallery of aerial photos the Windsor Star showcased the other day on the project so far. I will throw most of the photos up, but visit the link to see the full gallery.

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/Gallery+Aerial+view+Windsor+Essex+Parkway/6172124/story.html







Here you can see 2 bridges that have already been built offsite, but nearby.


Working on the Grande Marais Drain


















You can see the beginnings of some of the trenching here.














Former neighbourhood was ripped out here






Site of the proposed, and yet to be passed in Michigan, bridge.


In some of the photos you can also notice the black plastic tarp fencing. This was put up all along the WE Parkway corridor to protect a few species of snake.

Alot of the photos look very barren but that is because alot of businesses have been torn down and alot of bush and trees in some areas ripped out as well.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I understand they're actually very close to finishing the Highway 26 bypass and Highway 11 to North Bay (probably both will be complete this year). The Highway 400 extension is also progressing very well.

All those projects have been continuing at the same pace for years, with the exception of Highway 26. I'm not sure how you can say they're close to finishing it when there hasn't been any work on it since at least 2006. Either way, massive increase in spending, little to no impact on progress.

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

They opened a divided Highway 7 extension to Carleton Place and an extension to Arnprior and are working on expanding 417 through Ottawa. They are almost complete a very large reconstruction of Highway 8 in Kitchener addressing serious bottlenecks and have significantly rebuilt Highway 401 in south-western Ontario addressing safety concerns. They are taking steps to extend Highway 407, have improved Highway 410 in the Toronto area.

The Highway 7 & 8 reconstruction was much-needed. But twinning Highway 7 to Carleton Place took 6 years, and was likely done at the expense of Highway 26. Moreover, why is the province not getting 407 ETR to do the extension out to the 35/115?

Originally Posted by Mister F

The Harris administration spent themselves into a deficit when the economy was booming. McGuinty turned that deficit into a surplus that he maintained for years until the global economy crashed in 2008. Harris and Eves were out of control, McGuinty ran a deficit when it was impossible not not.

Do you have any figures to back that up? I find it very hard to believe that they "spent themselves into a deficit" when spending was actually cut by 3%. Remember when the public sector unions were wailing and screaming about the death of our services? Are you sure this "deficit" was not just a continuation of the Bob Ray Legacy?

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Hwy 26 is a case of McGuinty killing a highway ... I do agree with that.

But for the others, the 417 has been built at a snails pace for years, in fact Stirling (then Conservative Transportation Minister) said that the 417 through Arnprior wouldn't be started until Hwy 7 was built to Carleton Place -- obviously that hasn't been the case.

The twinning of Hwy 11 and 69 is about where it should be. Twinning contracts have been coming with about the same frequency under the liberals as they were under the Conservatives.

HOV lane implementation was undertaken by the Liberals. Some serious reconstruction of the 417 has taken place or is currently underway.

The Windsor Essex Parkway is underway, which I see as a pretty big deal.

Objectively, I don't see how you can think that the Liberals are doing much of a different job then the Conservatives did before them when it comes to our highways.

It's not that they're doing a shittier job. Harris, though probably well-intentioned, was the worst thing that happened to our Provincial Highway system. The point is that McGuinty has spent way more than the previous Conservative government at all levels, with little or no change in highway construction.

Originally Posted by sonysnob

There is some pretty serious local opposition to the 424. A study was underway a couple of years ago, if it isn't still. Same goes for the widening of Highway 7/8 between New Hamburg and Stratford. Ever since the freeway revolts of the 1970s the public has to buy into new road construction, which is has become increasingly difficult in some parts of the province.

Just more NIMBYism. I remember reading about a guy who ended up becoming the driving force behind an anti-424 group simply because he never bothered checking for provincial project plans when he bought his farm. Highway 24 between Cambridge and Brantford is one of the most over-burdened, dangerous 2-lane highways in Ontario, and an upgrade to either full freeway or even a super-two would solve practically all the problems with the current alignment. As an added bonus, Brantford will be better integrated with the three-headed monster, which would be a huge boost for the city.

[eemy]

It's my understanding that the new Hwy 26 will be open this coming fall (assuming it remains on schedule) and that work has been continuing on it since 2010. I could be mistaken, but that's the info I have.

There has been lots of investment in highway infrastructure. You may think it is insufficient, but if you fail to see the progress that has been made, it's because you don't want to.

That region of Ontario has a number of very busy two-lane highways. Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener and Highway 6 south of the 401 are both busier two-lane highways then 24, and there are a multitude of 4-lane highways that are considerably busier that the government hasn't even begun to discuss twinning. Highway 424 simply isn't a priority and even if it were, it would be foolish to move ahead on it until a route for the Mid-Peninsula Highway is determined.

[Dwils01]

Highway 404 from Sheppard Avenue East looking north.


Highway 404 from Sheppard Avenue East looking south to Highway 401 and the Don Valley Parkway.


pics by me from today.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

It's my understanding that the new Hwy 26 will be open this coming fall (assuming it remains on schedule) and that work has been continuing on it since 2010. I could be mistaken, but that's the info I have.

There has been lots of investment in highway infrastructure. You may think it is insufficient, but if you fail to see the progress that has been made, it's because you don't want to.

That region of Ontario has a number of very busy two-lane highways. Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener and Highway 6 south of the 401 are both busier two-lane highways then 24, and there are a multitude of 4-lane highways that are considerably busier that the government hasn't even begun to discuss twinning. Highway 424 simply isn't a priority and even if it were, it would be foolish to move ahead on it until a route for the Mid-Peninsula Highway is determined.

I'm actually going to be up near Collingwood this week, so I can check on construction and report back. Last time I went, however, the Highway 26 right-of-way was nothing more than an open field with no workers or construction equipment in sight.

I'm also not denying that the government has made progress. I want to make this absolutely clear. What I am claiming is that, given the massive increase in total spending, infrastructure progress has been comparatively small.

I would actually agree on the 424 as far as priority is concerned (Highway 69, for example, is way worse and needs to go), but I would still say it needs to be built in the medium term. It would be smart to align it in such a way that it can be extended past Brantford, but I still think the mid-peninsular highway is irrelevant to the decision. Not sure what we would do with Highway 7 between Kitchener and Guelph, because on either end it is an arterial road that would require extensive demolition to bring it up to freeway standards. It might just get twinned a la Hanlon Parkway.

[sonysnob]

^ it's hard to see the full progress along Hwy 26 with all of the snow, but the new highway will definitely be open next year. You can already drive around the new roundabout at Poplar Sideroad. Not sure about the one at Hwy 92. Take some pics!

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Do you have any figures to back that up? I find it very hard to believe that they "spent themselves into a deficit" when spending was actually cut by 3%. Remember when the public sector unions were wailing and screaming about the death of our services? Are you sure this "deficit" was not just a continuation of the Bob Ray Legacy?

How quickly people forget. "Although the provincial budget was indeed balanced for the last several years of Harris's own time in office, his successor and former deputy Ernie Eves left office with a $5 billion deficit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_Revolution#cite_note-2

Eves ran a $5+ billion deficit when times were good. McGuinty only ran a deficit when the worldwide economy tanked.

[eemy]

The proposal for Highway 7 would have seen it connect somewhere between Victoria Street and Wellington (or slight north of Wellington; I forget exactly) cross the Grand River and continue parallel to Bridge a short distance north of Highway 7's present alignment all the way to Guelph. It would have connected directly to the northern terminus of the Hanlon using an existing protected ROW. There were plans posted online at one time, perhaps when the EA was done, but I can't track them down anymore. In any case, that project is on the shelf at the moment.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Mister F

How quickly people forget. "Although the provincial budget was indeed balanced for the last several years of Harris's own time in office, his successor and former deputy Ernie Eves left office with a $5 billion deficit."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_Revolution#cite_note-2

Eves ran a $5+ billion deficit when times were good. McGuinty only ran a deficit when the worldwide economy tanked.

But you originally said the "Harris Administration" ran a deficit, and I correctly pointed out they didn't. His flappy, indecisive successor was the one running the deficit.

While McGuinty's government managed to run a modest surplus in a few years, this was also coupled with a massive increase in spending and taxation. The real problem is not so much deficits but the debt brought on by continuous spending. Despite running so many surpluses, the Provincial debt has increased by about $110 billion during McGuinty's term in office, and we're paying about $10.3 billion a year to service it despite very low interest rates.

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

The proposal for Highway 7 would have seen it connect somewhere between Victoria Street and Wellington (or slight north of Wellington; I forget exactly) cross the Grand River and continue parallel to Bridge a short distance north of Highway 7's present alignment all the way to Guelph. It would have connected directly to the northern terminus of the Hanlon using an existing protected ROW. There were plans posted online at one time, perhaps when the EA was done, but I can't track them down anymore. In any case, that project is on the shelf at the moment.

That doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence. Technically, the Scarborough Expressway in Toronto was never officially canceled, and was "shelved" by Metro until its dissolution in 1998. Not even sure what the current situation on that project is, whether it has been officially killed or continues to lie dormant.

[eemy]

What Harris did was completely unsustainable. He deserves no admiration for a balanced budget in light of the costs the province took on to achieve it.

[vid]

Eves was a shitty premier. I wonder what things would have been like if Laugherty had won.

At least with Eves we got to keep socialized hydro. Up here in Soviet Northistan, that's the most important thing.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by Wharn

But you originally said the "Harris Administration" ran a deficit, and I correctly pointed out they didn't. His flappy, indecisive successor was the one running the deficit.

While McGuinty's government managed to run a modest surplus in a few years, this was also coupled with a massive increase in spending and taxation. The real problem is not so much deficits but the debt brought on by continuous spending. Despite running so many surpluses, the Provincial debt has increased by about $110 billion during McGuinty's term in office, and we're paying about $10.3 billion a year to service it despite very low interest rates.

Well Eves was a big part of the Harris administration so my point remains. As for the debt increase, almost all of that has been after the economy tanked when everybody has been taking on debt, or immediately after taking office when they had to deal with Eves' deficit. And a "massive" increase in taxation and spending is a pretty big overstatement.

[vid]

With the HST, the sales tax on almost everything went from 5+8% to 13%. That's a HUGE increase. 5+8 < 13.

[Dwils01]

There is a plan to make the QEW 8 lanes from Hamilton to St. Catharines.
The two additional lanes are suppose to be HOV.

Last time I heard anything was that it won't start until after they improve highway 403 through Hamilton.
They are currently working on the overpasses at Main Street and King Street right now.