Denver - Historic Five Points Neighborhood Part I

[stepper77]

The colors in your photos are incredible and the buildings you photographed are just as stunning. I'm glad this neighborhood has rebounded and these buildings are being restored. Denver is a great city from what I saw and this exemplifies that. Thanks!

[Cirrus]

Great pictures. It's a crime that Five Points is so overshadowed in Denver by LoDo and Highlands. For my money it's the city's best urban neighborhood. Or at the very least, it's the one with the best bones, if you want to argue that it's under-occupied relative to the others and therefore doesn't have as many services.

If I were going to live in Denver, Five Points would be the first place I would look for a home. I might not end up there, but it would be at the top of my list.

[kool maudit]

it really is an older, more established city than you'd think.

[LAsam]

Looks like a very comfortable part of town. Looking forward to part 2!

[The Dirt]

Very cool! I love driving into downtown down MLK as it turns into Champa. There's really a sense of place and history in this neighborhood.

[dktshb]

Great shots and a beautiful thread.

It is amazing how much Denver has grown up and got it together since I left in 1994. It really is an entirely different city. I am so glad the historic neighborhoods have cleaned up and the city invested in preserving its abundant stock of historic structures and neighborhoods. The 50's thru the 80's was not kind to Denver... I am glad its citizens woke up and preserved its history.

Thanks for sharing!

[Dogpatch]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Having been to Denver recently, I find that these pictures aren't very representative of Five Points. This photo thread really seems to focus on the gentrified areas. There are parks and playgrounds that are filled with homeless, prostitutes, and drug addicts, a good number of homes are run down, and the amount of litter is astounding.

I know the purpose of this thread was probably to help propel Denver's image; however, representing this neighborhood as some complete yuppie haven is to spit on Denver's history and reality.

Some people just LOOOOOOVE to complain. (Get a grip dude.)

This is an amazing thread. you clearly put alot of work into it! Thank you so much for sharing the Five Points renaissance with those of us who aren't in Denver.

I grew up in Denver, and Five points was always considered the grittiest neighborhood in town. it is so wonderful to see that it is finally receiving a little love.

[Double L]

Great city!!!

[CPVLIVE]

Thanks everyone - Part two is coming up.

Originally Posted by blm3034L!fe

Awesome photo tour! Thank you, looking forward to more, my only concern I have is the history and people from it will eventually be pushed out. Which I find depressing, if I were a wealthy black investor five points would be a top priority. But I'm Latin! Federal blvd is ours for 10 miles or so! LOL

Yeah - I would hope the area is able to maintain some of its identity. The exodus has been ongoing for some time, but it would be disingenuous to claim that all of the African American residents were forced out. Many left of their own volition when the area declined in the 60's and 70's. Keep in mind that historically the area was African American by de-facto segregation and not by choice. The Five Points Business Association is restoring the Rossonian with the help of some state funds and hopes to reopen in 2012 so there is some momentum. There is some wonderful history that shouldn't be lost.

[mSeattle]

Amazing hdr(?) photo work and even opens up conversations about social/economic issues past and present.

[OneForOne]

Really nice tour - thanks for the info as well.

[DenverInfill]

CPVLIVE, once again, an exceptional series of photos that captures the depth and quality of one of Denver's many historic neighborhoods. Well done.

I've been watching the transformation of Five Points/Curtis Park for many years and one way I've describe it is this: Twenty years ago, 2 in 10 homes were renovated gems, the remaining 8 were in various states of disrepair. Today, 8 in 10 are renovated gems, and the remaining 2 are in various states of disrepair. Add in the dozens of new construction projects, of which there were essentially none from about 1920 to 2000, and you have yourself one heckuva sweet historic neighborhood.

I can't wait for Part 2!

[bunt_q]

CPVLIVE - great stuff!

I think you came down a little hard, maybe, on a couple of the critics in here. I think Ken's right on, it's about 80% turned around. And maybe you did gloss over some of the rougher stuff. I don't think it's changed that much since I lived in Curtis Park (2004-2008), and I know we were broken into more than once in that time frame, and had two dead bodies on our block, so there is still some grittiness, we shouldn't deny that.

That said, the photos are fantastic. And the neighborhood is fantastic. (and boy am I kicking myself for not investing in ~2003 when a good number of people still told me I was insane for wanting to move into that area - it's gotten more out of reach every year since.)

On the gentrification re: the African-American community. I don't know the details, but I always assumed that a lot of it was "black-flight" to the "suburbs", including and especially Montbello. I imagine Montbello looked quite appealing when it was being built in the 70s/80s and Five Points looked, as somebody said, like Beirut.

[CPVLIVE]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

think you came down a little hard, maybe, on a couple of the critics in here. I think Ken's right on, it's about 80% turned around. And maybe you did gloss over some of the rougher stuff. I don't think it's changed that much since I lived in Curtis Park (2004-2008), and I know we were broken into more than once in that time frame, and had two dead bodies on our block, so there is still some grittiness, we shouldn't deny that.

You're probably right bunt - what I at first perceived as thinly veiled racism was probably just someone completely out of his element. I suspect he was simply parroting the same tired stereotypes and myths the area has suffered for over forty years, which, if we are honest are in some part racially motivated. I do appreciate comments - I simply thought I was dealing with something else entirely besides my photos or thread. I can take criticism as posting here is simply another oulet. I like to share with other urbanist/architectural types. I'm really not trying to do a documentary here and I cannot portray the neighborhood as someone else perceives it to be. I can only show a very limited view of it as seen by myself on that particular day and I don't deny that I concentrate on the positive.

I have since realized that I should have broken this thread down further as it is obviously a confusing jumble of converging neighborhoods. After thinking about it a little more I would combine Ballpark/Curtis Park/Five Points/Welton Corridor into a thread and Whittier/Cole into another. Whittier and Cole really deserved their own thread - they're tremendous neighborhoods.

[DenverInfill]

CPVLIVE, your photo threads represent a huge amount of labor, as well as a substantial artistic effort. Don't over-think it. Be true to your gut instinct in how you want to portray the district. Some people are going to be critical regardless of what you do.

I think your representation of Curtis Park/Five Points was spot on. What you portrayed not only reflects the vast majority of the district's existing conditions, but it also is indicative of the district's upward trend as well. Five years from now, it will probably be pretty tough finding any blighted photo opportunities in Curtis Park/Five Points.

I'm looking forward to the upcoming Part 2!

[BG918]

Very nice. Lots of history and some awesome older homes, yet there are still plenty of vacant lots/infill opportunities between downtown and this neighborhood. The houses are more rundown the further north and east you go, and further west is the rapidly gentrifying but still industrial area north of the ballpark along Blake. Most of the crime is also confined more to the north and east, and those areas are still some of Denver's higher crime neighborhoods.

[mr1138]

A recent blog post on denverurbanism.com made me think of this thread again.
The map from the blog post, which shows the locations of the remaining homes built in the 1880's in Denver, struck me because of the density of such structures remaining in the Five Points neighborhood.

[novaCJ]

Gotta love Denver!

[poconoboy61]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

I KIND OF agree with you, BUT there this is Part 1 of his tour, so maybe he'll show more of that stuff in Part 2. With that said, 5 Points isn't nearly as bad as you just made it out to be. I have a feeling that you're mainly talking about Lawson Park, which is bad, but it's also filled with normal neighborhood people playing baseball, kickball, etc., all the time. My first apartment when I moved to Denver (3 years ago) was in 5 Points, so I have personal experience that involves more than a single trip.

It is a slum. I have a friend who lives near the 38th and Downing light rail stop, so I not only got to witness the neighborhood in action, but talk to someone who has lived in the areas for years. We passed by lovely Lawson Park which was literally covered with people drinking handles of assorted liquors, littering, crackheads contorting on the playset, people clearly selling drugs out in the open, and not a cop or child in sight. This was a beautiful Saturday afternoon mind you. There are plenty of areas of 5 Points, outside of Lawson Park, that are rundown that are not depicted here. 5 Points is also one the historically black neighborhoods in Denver, and there is absolutely no sign of that in these pictures. There are several plaques and landmarks on Welton Street depicting this history that were clearly ignored by some guy trying to again paint Denver is some glossy, touristy light. If you are going to create a pictorial of a gentrified neighborhood, the least you can do is takes some photos of the very people you're clearly running out of their own neighborhood. Get real.

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

Notice the "Part 1" in the thread title... that possibly means that he purposefully only covered the gentrified side of 5 points in this thread. And even more than that, it's the photographer's choice to cover what he wants... if you feel that the neighborhood hasn't been accurately portrayed then provide your own counter-perspective via a photo thread. And while this might not be the most holistic portrait of Five Points, many (myself included) had no idea this kind of area existed in it. There's nothing wrong with focusing on the gentrified side of the neighborhood, and especially when it's as amazingly beautiful as it is. I would say I know where you're coming from, but your "having been to Denver recently" comment makes me wonder how familiar you are with Five Points or Denver in general. Are you from there?

Oh. I didn't know that the term "Part 1" implied all of that. I am sure people would much rather get an actual flavor of the neighborhood rather than some fake depiction through some hipster's square glass frames. I guess one could traverse through Bed-Stuy or Williamsburg in Brooklyn conveniently snapping photos of all the gentrified buildings, blatantly fawning for positive comments about "their" neighborhood."

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

Thanks for your expertise concerning Five Points and my tour through it. I was portraying the neighborhood as it is - undergoing a transformation - very successfully I might add. I wasn’t trying to gloss over the areas image - it is common knowledge that this neighborhood resembled war-torn Beirut in the 70’s and 80’s. I saw it with my own eyes. I was trying to portray the remarkable transformation that has occurred that even long time locals might be unaware of. I’m absolutely sure that after walking these neighborhoods that even many locals have no idea of the amount, extent, and amazing condition of the historic housing contained within. Keep in mind that it isn’t just the Points represented here -there are many neighborhoods within the Five Points district -
Curtis Park, Whittier, Cole, Clayton San Rafael, and Ballpark neighborhoods.

I didn't travel to 5 Points in the 70s or 80s, I was there in 2011. There is still plenty of grit that was avoided due to your bias.

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

Your agenda however is far more difficult to discern. I suspect you spent a minimal amount of time in Denver and don’t know the first thing about its history. If you would like to return I could show you around. If you’re insinuating that I’ve somehow cherry-picked photos to misrepresent this hood than your clueless. Everything I shot is there and far more - I could easily post another couple thousand shots of historic architecture in these neighborhoods alone. There is some good and some bad surrounded by non-gentrified perfectly functioning tracts of historic neighborhood with big chunks of it in amazing condition considering its age. Is there crime and homeless? - sure - this isn’t South Park. I live a quarter mile away and walk the streets weekly. I talked with a multitude of residents - I spoke with them about their homes and any history they could share and we often laughed about the perception of Five Points. I’m sorry you were frightened by the homeless, living in Tuscon obviously colors your perception of urban areas and I know it is hard to shake the suburban mind-set. Nothing like these historic inner-city urban hoods there that‘s for sure. Your perception of trash I can’t explain - it’s rather bizarre, but make no mistake this is a large area I‘ve attempted to cover and you apparently spent all your time around Sonny Lawson. Anyhow I stand by the historical information I presented and please feel free to respond to any perceived inaccuracies.

Agenda? Hmm. There is no agenda on my part. It's just that if you're going to take photos of a neighborhood, it would be honest to actually, you know, accurately depict the character of the neighborhood. I don't want to see propoganda that is clearly demonstrating YOUR agenda, I want to see the neighborhood.

You clearly have never been to Tucson, or "Tuscon" as you call it, so I would not talk about it as if you have ANY experience with it. "Tuscon" at least is honest about what it is. "Tuscon" at least has residents who have enough pride and respect for its neighborhoods not to conveniently gloss over their character to advance some agenda. Why do you feel the need to water down Denver's character? Isn't it a bland enough, Middle American city without added propoganda?

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

This is comical. I don’t believe anyone is going to presume all of Denver is gentrified and full of yuppies just by viewing my photos. I don’t do grit often (check out my threads) I’m not interested, nor fascinated - everything is slowly disintegrating before our very eyes and I’m not much interested when it does eventually succumb to chemistry. I am interested in history, however, with which you seem to be very concerned. There is a very long and complex history attached to this area and I offered up a small part of it to paint a more interesting picture - not to obfuscate. My neighborhood threads portray the immense amount of period housing and architecture in Denver that people locally and nationwide are completely unaware of - and I hope I’m opening some eyes, nothing more. William Allen West started the gentrification of Curtis Park in 1972? by initiating the effort to list it on the National Historic Register in order to stop the devastation that was occurring. You see at the time Curtis Park and Greater Five Points was losing enormous amounts of period arcitecture to demolition - to scrape and build new or simply for public safety as the buildings were crumbling. It has been slowly gentrifying ever since. You having just visited would no doubt be unware of what this neighborhood was like just 15 years ago - ignorance is bliss. Check out my upcoming threads on San Fran and the historic Denver Public Schools, or my past threads on New Orleans, New York, Washington D.C., Salt Lake and Chicago for evidence of my secret agenda and plans for world dominance.

If you have no desire to photograph grit, then you should probably avoid gritty neighborhoods. 5 Points still has a slummy feel that you have failed to show. Maybe picture threads of Broomfield and Highlands Ranch are in order from this point forward. If you have a desire to show some architecture, I just think that it would be appropriate to point on that your threads are not comprehensive and in no way reflect the true character of the photographed neighborhood. It is truly depressing that a bunch of hipsters want to call themselves urban pioneers, but don't truly embrace the areas that they live in. Please stop further marginalizing historic minority communities, while simultaneously ignoring and disrespecting American history and the entire city of Denver and state of Colorado, to advance your agenda. This photo thread just makes me so sad. You should be sad too.

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

This response right here is why I'm posting Denver's historical neighborhoods on here. There is no reason this shit should be kept a secret. Everyone perceives Denver as being new and sterile and suburban like Tuscon or Vegas or Calgary - it's not. Denver has nearly 50 square miles of historic housing and architecture.

"Sterile and suburban like Tuscon", eh? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? I guess you must not be familiar with your own city. There are few cities that embrace their cultural background in the way Tucson does. We have plenty of historic architecture all around the city and we are yet filled with people who purposely ignore the character of said neighborhoods because they don't like taking pictures of grit.

No, CPV, there is no reason why this "shit" should be kept a secret and there is not reason why the rest of 5 Points "shit" should be kept a convenient secret either.

Originally Posted by CPVLIVE

Someone commented on my Cap Hill thread that my photos made the area seem nicer than it was or misrepresented it - bullshit. I couldn’t disagree more. In fact I have a hard time representing through photos just how incredible the vibe is that comprises these neighborhoods. I can make a building shine but showing how it fits in the bigger picture is almost impossible.

"Cap" Hill is a very nice neighborhood with wonderful architecture, but it is still very rough around the edges, which I am sure you failed to depict due to your aversion to photographing anything that is not Disneyfied.

Originally Posted by Thundertubs

Lighten up. A photographer shoots whatever catches their eye. Maybe it's not what you saw, but most of us are smart enough to know that a photothread cannot convey every last angle on a place.

Every last angle? How about ONE photo of a non-gentrified area? It takes no effort to find a building in Five Points that reflects its true character.

Originally Posted by Dogpatch

Some people just LOOOOOOVE to complain. (Get a grip dude.)

Yep, I'll comaplain when I feel I am being deceived. 5 Points is still largely slummy and run down. These pictures paint an agenda laden, biased viewpoint. I will be back in Denver next month and I will be sure to photograph areas of the neighborhood that were skipped.

[bunt_q]

There is no 38th and Downing light rail station. Just saying, if you're going to criticize spelling, then you'd better get your geography right. There's a big difference between 30th and 38th on the ground. If you're professing to be an expert in Five Points, you'd better know that.

Lawson Park, really? Because it happens to be the nearest green space to our homeless shelters, and it's a nice out of the way place to sleep (and drink), it becomes evidence of a slum? I lived within sight of that park (across the street basically) for four years, never had a problem there. I am definitely no hipster, nor am I a pioneer of anything. And that park frankly didn't scare me a bit. It's a transitional area for sure, but developers don't invest what they have in that immediate area if it's a slum.

Far be it for me to quote myself, but I stand by what I and others said earlier, which I think is an accurate representation of the neighborhood (coming from someone who has actually lived there). So:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Great stuff!
...
I think Ken's right on, it's about 80% turned around. And maybe you did gloss over some of the rougher stuff.

As for Five Points being "largely slummy and run down" - you, sir, have no idea what you are talking about.

It's also very difficult to argue that Denver has not respected the African American heritage of Five Points. Quite the opposite really.

(In a way, I wish it was slummy and run down. If it was, at the same time all of the so-called hipsters thought it was a gem, I could make a lot of money. But as it stands, I've been pretty much priced out of Curtis Park and the core of Five Points already. So much for the slum, aren't those supposed to at least be affordable?)