LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by pesto

Have to disagree. Medallion fits nicely with all the buildings surrounding it (the Reagan, Barclay, etc.) in mass, style and decor. It is about as close as you can get in the contemporary idiom to the modern, deco and beaux arts buildings that surround it. A pretty strong job of updating the look of the area without jarring. Plus it added badly needed open space (assuming the remaining parking lots eventually are buildings).

What? It looks absolutely nothing like any of the buildings near it. There is almost no architectural detail, just stucco beige walls. Plus, its the same mass as the buildings around it? Medallion is half the height of any building near it. It sticks out like a moldy tooth.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

I agree with Pesto in that I think the Medallion fits in quite well. I wish it were taller of course, matching the height of at least the San Fernando Building, but it's done wonders for that corner and once all the retail spaces are leased out (including Simply Salad coming soon), then it will really be activated.

I am hoping that we will hear something about Medallion phase 2 growing some legs sometime this year...

[BrandonJXN]

The Medallion is NOT a good looking building at all. It looks like a medical clinic. From Corona. Circa 1995. I do like the flower but it has zero soul.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

What? It looks absolutely nothing like any of the buildings near it. There is almost no architectural detail, just stucco beige walls. Plus, its the same mass as the buildings around it? Medallion is half the height of any building near it. It sticks out like a moldy tooth.

The lack of decoration is the modern look. I hate it but it's what this generation wants. The rest of Medallion pulls the horizontals from the Reagan, Barclay, and others in the same rhythm. Remember that you have to blend with mixed deco, beaux arts and mid-century modern, all adjacent to the building.

Even the height issue was addressed by leaving substantial open space, which allows the shorter Medallion to intermediate to the (slightly) taller surrounding buildings.

It's ironic that we are complaining about a lack of a masterpiece. This was a particularly difficult building to conceptualize, since on one side you still LITERALLY have people sleeping and living on the sidewalk next to the building and spaces you are trying to rent. This means money is not going to be spent unnecessarily and for sure no one was going taller.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by pesto

The lack of decoration is the modern look.

There is a difference between being minimal and modern and being cheap. Medallion is just being cheap. Hell, just look at ArchDaily (a website, for those not in the know) for a couple minutes and you will see dozens of modern buildings that looks eons better then Medallion.

EDIT: Here are some buildings being built in Beirut that would be perfect for some of the narrower empty lots in the Historic Core, buildings that are modern and not bland ugly pieces of shit.





And these buildings are being built in Mexico City:





I chose this buildings because each of them are very modern, very attractive, and most importantly, are not only built in older neighborhoods, but are either in scale with the existing buildings of said older neighborhoods or have elements of their design (the podium on the Mexico City tower) that help ease the transition from the existing scale of the older neighborhood. Don't think that Medallion is the status quo. These buildings, and hundreds more, prove it is not.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

But.... Medallion... ugh. I hate that building more then any other building downtown. I truly believe that the OBD is the most perfect area in downtown. It is everything the rest of downtown could be, with the high-end retail, dining, little markets, and more. Medallion, next to all of this, looks so out of place and ugly. It hurts every time I see it.

Illithid, the Medallion is purported to have 200 retail spaces so what I do with bldgs like the Medallion is walk on the same side of the street that the bldg sits. When you turn to it, you get to look at the stuff in its retail spaces and when you turn away, you get to see the great bldgs of the OBD. That doesn't change the fact the Medallion is not a class act but at least it doesn't annoy as much.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

There is a difference between being minimal and modern and being cheap. Medallion is just being cheap. Hell, just look at ArchDaily (a website, for those not in the know) for a couple minutes and you will see dozens of modern buildings that looks eons better then Medallion.

EDIT: Here are some buildings being built in Beirut that would be perfect for some of the narrower empty lots in the Historic Core, buildings that are modern and not bland ugly pieces of shit.





And these buildings are being built in Mexico City:





I chose this buildings because each of them are very modern, very attractive, and most importantly, are not only built in older neighborhoods, but are either in scale with the existing buildings of said older neighborhoods or have elements of their design (the podium on the Mexico City tower) that help ease the transition from the existing scale of the older neighborhood. Don't think that Medallion is the status quo. These buildings, and hundreds more, prove it is not.

Illithid, part of my frustration is that there is very little good architecture going up in the US. At least I am not seeing here the kind of passionate, ground breaking architecture I see going up in Europe, the ME and South America. For me, EU architects like Calatrava, Ole Sheeren, UNStudio etc are pushing the envelope while American architects continue to churn out the same ole same ole.

The buildings you posted get my attention. I am not sure I like all of them but there is something about them that makes me want to look longer......to get a real feel for them. They turn me on. I don't get the same reaction to many of the new buildings in the US. Its like the recession took away the American imagination. New building materials are making it possible to move away from the standard rectangular box to other forms.........and yet, its like American architects didn't get the memo.

In any case, I like where you're going with this...........looking at the kind of architecture going up in other cities of the world.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by alki

Illithid, part of my frustration is that there is very little good architecture going up in the US. At least I am not seeing here the kind of passionate, ground breaking architecture I see going up in Europe, the ME and South America. For me, EU architects like Calatrava, Ole Sheeren, UNStudio etc are pushing the envelope while American architects continue to churn out the same ole same ole.

The buildings you posted get my attention. I am not sure I like all of them but there is something about them that makes me want to look longer......to get a real feel for them. They turn me on. I don't get the same reaction to many of the new buildings in the US. Its like the recession took away the American imagination. New building materials are making it possible to move away from the standard rectangular box to other forms.........and yet, its like American architects didn't get the memo.

In any case, I like where you're going with this...........looking at the kind of architecture going up in other cities of the world.

Hey, you're the developer, right? You can make it happen.

[LAofAnaheim]

And........how many parking spaces are required in Mexico City for that development compared to what was required for Medallion?

Hint: therein lies the problem. Imagine if a quarter of the parking garage cash could have been used for asthetics.

[pesto]

Are you going to spend your money to build those on Los Angeles St.? If not, why would anyone else? This is friggin' Skid Row, not the Zona Rosa or a tree-lined upscale neighborhood.

In any event, your first building is one of the ugliest I have ever seen (personal opinion). Some of the others would be only marginally better. How would they fit with deco, beaux arts, etc.?

[pesto]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

And........how many parking spaces are required in Mexico City for that development compared to what was required for Medallion?

Hint: therein lies the problem. Imagine if a quarter of the parking garage cash could have been used for asthetics.

Not to start on parking again, but Medallion uses free parking in its advertising for tenants. Because it has to. It is competing for tenants in the toy industry against smaller buildings on North Broadway and nearby where free parking is automatically assumed. Seriously, buyers and small business owners are not going to jump on the subway and walk across town to check out your services and product offerrings.

Same thing in the fashion district. The underground parking is packed with Mercedes and BMW's from designers, buyers, marketing VP's, etc. This is not the subway crowd (see any Jimmy Choo's down there lately?).

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by pesto

Not to start on parking again, but Medallion uses free parking in its advertising for tenants. Because it has to. It is competing for tenants in the toy industry against smaller buildings on North Broadway and nearby where free parking is automatically assumed. Seriously, buyers and small business owners are not going to jump on the subway and walk across town to check out your services and product offerrings.

Same thing in the fashion district. The underground parking is packed with Mercedes and BMW's from designers, buyers, marketing VP's, etc. This is not the subway crowd (see any Jimmy Choo's down there lately?).

That's a misconception. Makes me wonder why Paris, London, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Rome, Beijing, Sydney, Chicago, etc.. has soooooo many shoppers in thier downtown districts. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Parking DOES NOT bring in business. That's a misconception. If that was the truth, tell me why Venice and Hollywood attract people willing to pay $20 to park, whereas the Valley or OC does not?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Imagine if a quarter of the parking garage cash could have been used for asthetics.

I'm not sure how much of such projs are straitjacketed by zoning rules, by the lifestyle of LA, or by the economy of dtla. I know the devlpr of the medallion struggled to get his proj underway & for awhile there was about ready to place it on hold. I remember one devlpr, Tom Gilmore, mentioning he called medallion's devlpr to encourage him to keep his proj on track, saying that a big unfinished construction site would be a black eye for the OBD.

when comparing LA, esp dt, with other cities, ppl have to remember the differences between the economy here & elsewhere. Lots of $$ have flowed out & away from dt over the yrs, & although ppl who want housing have picked up some of the slack, ppl who need space for offices or stores still are in shorty supply. Too many of them still favor being in other hoods.

i recall illithid visiting bunker hill awhile back & complaining about the quality of new devlpt around there. Not without reason, but he & others sidestep or seem to tolerate the fact that too much of dt still is not much better than this....


maps.google.com

^ that land has been sitting vacant for over 40 yrs, & the proj across from Disney hall shows no signs of being reactivated anytime soon. It doesn't help that most ppl in LA still prefer living in hoods like where illithid, me or others currently have their residences. that's the opposite of a city like nyc, where the outer boroughs aren't as well liked as manhattan, or where it isn't as one sided there as it is here in LA.

I don't know about cities like paris, berlin, tokyo or mexico, but when ppl fuss over the design of a new proj in dtla----even though their complaints have merit----that to me is like a person in a car with 4 bald tires, one ready to go flat, complaining that the seats are upholstered in fabric instead of leather.

Speaking of cars, I know many ppl in LA may say they love the idea of mass transit or walking & exercising to stay healthy, but when they drop by some shopping ctr or some business----in their CAR----a few miles away, in too many cases they'll circle the parking lot trying to find a spot as close to the front door as possible. Too many of those ppl may be the same ones who'll also say they don't understand why there has to be so much convenient parking in dtla.

The only thing that would allow such ppl to be idealistic is if dt were really complete & fantastic, as good at what the greatest cities offer their ppl. so far, we're still a far cry from reaching that point.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

That's a misconception. Makes me wonder why Paris, London, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Rome, Beijing, Sydney, Chicago, etc.. has soooooo many shoppers in thier downtown districts. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Parking DOES NOT bring in business. That's a misconception. If that was the truth, tell me why Venice and Hollywood attract people willing to pay $20 to park, whereas the Valley or OC does not?

Very confusing.

First, I am speaking of business customers (B to B) on Los Angeles St. or in the Fashion District. The competition is a few blocks north and south and offers free parking. Medallion does so too under pressure from the market. Are these people all stupid?

This has nothing to do with retail shopping. In any event, Venice and Hollywood are very small shopping districts. Abbott Kinney is trendy but not big dollars. Moreover, I park there for free, never paid a dime to park, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Why would people pay to park in the Valley, when it's free (except Glendale)? I would guess that there are a half dozen shopping centers that swamp Venice and Hollywood. Hell, Van Nuys Blvd. swamps Hollywood and you can park on the street or in free lots in back.

Most of the cities you cite have large numbers of well-to-do people in their "downtowns", which typically are NOT the central high-rise districts in any event. This is Skid Row. Where exactly would the nearest billionaire live? Pasadena or San Marino seem like good guesses, or maybe BH. That's where the upscale retail shops and businesses are. Those are much more analagous to Kensington, the Rive Droit, Veneto and the Spanish steps, etc.

What makes you think that SF doesn't have massive parking downtown? Union Sq., 5th and Mission, Sutter-Stockton and many others. And this IN SPITE of having large numbers of wealthy people living within a mile or two.

[all of the trash]

Pretty sure "lack of parking" is on the bottom of the list of reasons people from the burbs or around LA proper avoid Dtla

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I'm not sure how much of such projs are straitjacketed by zoning rules, by the lifestyle of LA, or by the economy of dtla. I know the devlpr of the medallion struggled to get his proj underway & for awhile there was about ready to place it on hold. I remember one devlpr, Tom Gilmore, mentioning he called medallion's devlpr to encourage him to keep his proj on track, saying that a big unfinished construction site would be a black eye for the OBD.

when comparing LA, esp dt, with other cities, ppl have to remember the differences between the economy here & elsewhere. Lots of $$ have flowed out & away from dt over the yrs, & although ppl who want housing have picked up some of the slack, ppl who need space for offices or stores still are in shorty supply. Too many of them still favor being in other hoods.

i recall illithid visiting bunker hill awhile back & complaining about the quality of new devlpt around there. Not without reason, but he & others sidestep or seem to tolerate the fact that too much of dt still is not much better than this....


maps.google.com

^ that land has been sitting vacant for over 40 yrs, & the proj across from Disney hall shows no signs of being reactivated anytime soon. It doesn't help that most ppl in LA still prefer living in hoods like where illithid, me or others currently have their residences. that's the opposite of a city like nyc, where the outer boroughs aren't as well liked as manhattan, or where it isn't as one sided there as it is here in LA.

I don't know about cities like paris, berlin, tokyo or mexico, but when ppl fuss over the design of a new proj in dtla----even though their complaints have merit----that to me is like a person in a car with 4 bald tires, one ready to go flat, complaining that the seats are upholstered in fabric instead of leather.

Speaking of cars, I know many ppl in LA may say they love the idea of mass transit or walking & exercising to stay healthy, but when they drop by some shopping ctr or some business----in their CAR----a few miles away, in too many cases they'll circle the parking lot trying to find a spot as close to the front door as possible. Too many of those ppl may be the same ones who'll also say they don't understand why there has to be so much convenient parking in dtla.

The only thing that would allow such ppl to be idealistic is if dt were really complete & fantastic, as good at what the greatest cities offer their ppl. so far, we're still a far cry from reaching that point.

I moved from Laguna Niguel (ugh) after living there most of my life. You really have to understand that Downtown is the residential construction center of SoCal now. Everything is changing. It takes time. Citywatch, I think you are a Mom, correct? Even though there is a growing family population here...it is nowhere near where it needs to be. I have friends who are moving from DT to Silverlake and Los Feliz because they have outgrown their lofts. That is OK...eveything is evolving.

Those lots you post all the time were ripe for development but the economy has delayed things....but on Bunker Hill the Broad Museum is under construction and the adjacent apartment complex will break ground soon...on paved lots. I know colemonkee has lived here longer...but those of us who bought here five years ago have seen unbelievable changes....and a lot in recent months. Those of us who are urbanists love the changes and look forward the next next generation becoming a part of this community.

[Illithid Dude]

Look what's come from the woodwork...

Originally Posted by all of the trash

Pretty sure "lack of parking" is on the bottom of the list of reasons people from the burbs or around LA proper avoid Dtla

Ummm... they do. All my friends have gone to and enjoyed going to downtown in the past school year. I know this may be hard to comprehend to some of you people, but people actually like downtown. It's crazy, I know.

And CityWatch....

Originally Posted by citywatch

i recall illithid visiting bunker hill awhile back & complaining about the quality of new devlpt around there.

First off, you have said the same exact thing with the same exact words multiple times over the past while.

Anyways...

You say that downtown can get shit because at least shit is going downtown.
Downtown, you say, is lucky it's getting anything at all, let alone shit. This is because of.... parking lots?

As you say:

Originally Posted by citywatch

I don't know about cities like paris, berlin, tokyo or mexico, but when ppl fuss over the design of a new proj in dtla----even though their complaints have merit----that to me is like a person in a car with 4 bald tires, one ready to go flat, complaining that the seats are upholstered in fabric instead of leather.

So, downtown doesn't deserve good architecture because it has some cheap stores and empty lots. This is illogical beyond belief. So, by your logic, is a place doesn't have ultra-high end stores and is wall-to-wall buildings, then it doesn't matter what goes up in that area. So, by your logic, almost every single neighborhood in L.A. doesn't deserve high-quality development, because it isn't 'worthy' enough. Downtown Santa Monica has empty lots, still, and kitchy stores. Does it not deserve good architecture? Echo Park, Silverlake, West Hollywood, Hollywood, all of those areas have some empty-lots and less-then-nice stores. Do they not deserve good development because if it? They do. They do they do they do. And they are getting it. Now, compare Hollywood with, say, Westlake. In 2000, both were pretty grungy. Since 2000, both have tons of new development. The difference? The new development in Hollywood is generally of a high quality. The new development in Westlake is generally as cheap as they come, pretty much what you are saying downtown deserves to get. The outcome? Westlake is still grungy. Hollywood is one of the best places in L.A. Do you think maybe there is a correlation? Places grow by getting nice, not by staying the same quality. If what you advocate for downtown comes true, then downtown will never really grow. Luckily, since what you advocate for downtown is completely illogical, downtown will continue to blossom, just as it has blossomed, as it continues its transformation to something great.


Also, don't group me with people who choose to live in the suburbs. I don't. My parents do, and only do because we are a family of five with many pets. Believe me, the second I graduate college I am schlepping of to downtown, where I will happily live.

[pesto]

Well, it's getting personal now, for no particular reason. I don't think anyone doubts that DT is improving and no one should doubt that it is far from perfect.

It's always nice to have Barcelona or Paris quality architecture, but it's just not very likely on Skid Row. Different story on Flower or Fig or Grand where I consistently hold-out for better quality, while some others say "anything is better than a parking lot".

Like it or not, the middle class ain't living DT if there isn't convenient parking, safe pleasant streets and decent quality schools. There is a competition with Hollywood, Glendale, Pasadena and westside. Each has strengths and weaknesses and DT has to get stronger (ideally on several fronts) just to say in the game. Let's hope it does so since there is enormous potential here to be exploited.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by pesto

Well, it's getting personal now, for no particular reason. I don't think anyone doubts that DT is improving and no one should doubt that it is far from perfect.

It's always nice to have Barcelona or Paris quality architecture, but it's just not very likely on Skid Row. Different story on Flower or Fig or Grand where I consistently hold-out for better quality, while some others say "anything is better than a parking lot".

Like it or not, the middle class ain't living DT if there isn't convenient parking, safe pleasant streets and decent quality schools. There is a competition with Hollywood, Glendale, Pasadena and westside. Each has strengths and weaknesses and DT has to get stronger (ideally on several fronts) just to say in the game. Let's hope it does so since there is enormous potential here to be exploited.

Did you notice the middle class in downtown LA (Old Bank District) don't have high parking requirements? Thus, you can build more affordable housing. Same situation in SF, New York, Chicago, etc.. It's the buildings with more parking that are for high class individuals and those with less parking for more middle class. That's what LA has to turn into in order to attract middle class. If people want convenient and safe parking in downtown LA, either pay the high price or move to the suburbs. LA has been socially engineered enough in the 1940s with the rise of the automobile; it's time to move back into a scaled city with less atrosion of the automobile. If they miss the cars that much, move to the suburbs. It's a choice.

[ziggy331]

Little bit of a tangent here but I thought this news is kind of exciting to think about:

Downtown Car Wash for sale.

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/buy-a...33a453c-59bb-11e1-80de-0019bb2963f4.html

"Delson said he is in preliminary talks with an array of potential buyers, but the most likely purchaser is a hospitality investor. 'Everyone seems to think there’s a lack of hotel rooms and that’s probably the highest and best use,' Delson said. 'We do have people talking about retail with condos above it, but the prime players are hotel developers'"