Census 2011 Results:

[softee]

^ Didn't Chatham-Kent lose population?

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by vid

Municipalities can be added, but not taken away, and CMAs cannot merge, but CAs can merge with each other or be added to CMAs.

So you can't take Burlington to the Toronto CMA. More people from there work in Toronto then hamilton. I'm not even talking merging CMA's here. Just Taking on city and adding it to another CMA.

[eemy]

It's kind of irrelevant since Burlington wouldn't be included with Toronto anyway based on the CMA criteria. Fewer people commute to Hamilton from Burlington, but the enormous number of reverse-commuters from Hamilton to Burlington more than makes up for it.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by lake of the nations

I think the list I did in the other thread could be appreciated here.

01. Toronto: 5,583,064 (+469,915)
02. Montréal: 3,824,221 (+188,665)
03. Vancouver: 2,313,328 (+196,747)
04. Ottawa: 1,236,324 (+102,691)
05. Calgary: 1,214,839 (+135,529)
06. Edmonton: 1,159,869 (+124,924)
07. Ville de Québec: 765,706 (+46,553)
08. Winnipeg: 730,018 (+30,655)
09. Hamilton: 721,053 (+28,142)
10. Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo: 477,160 (+25,925)
11. London: 474,786 (+17,066)
12. St. Catharines–Niagara: 392,184 (+1,867)
13. Halifax: 390,328 (+17,470)
14. Oshawa: 356,177 (+25,583)
15. Victoria: 344,615 (+14,527)
16. Windsor: 319,246 (-4,096)
17. Saskatoon: 260,600 (+26,677)
18. Regina: 210,556 (+15,585)
19. Sherbrooke: 201,890 (+10,480)
20. St. John's: 196,966 (+15,853)
21. Barrie: 187,013 (+9,952)
22. Kelowna: 179,839 (+17,563)
23. Abbotsford-Mission: 170,191 (+11,171)
24. Greater Sudbury: 160,770 (+2,512)
25. Kingston: 159,561 (+7,203)
26. Saguenay: 157,790 (+1,485)
27. Trois-Rivières: 151,773 (+7,060)
28. Guelph: 141,097 (+7,399)
29. Moncton: 138,644 (+12,220)
30. Brantford: 135,501 (+10,894)
31. Saint John: 127,761 (+5372)
32. Thunder Bay: 121,596 (-1,311)
33. Peterborough: 118,975 (+2,405)
34. Lethbridge*: 105,999 (+10,803)
35. Chatham-Kent*: 94,268 (+8,042)

*CA

Thanks Lake of the Nations!..This is the list I was going by...Up until today I thought this was set in stone until it gets corrected by the government, and the federal government only, but I guess I was wrong. It's more ambiguous than I thought it was.

[lake of the nations]

Originally Posted by softee

^ Didn't Chatham-Kent lose population?

You are right. These were the figures for Fredericton.

Corrected list

01. Toronto: 5,583,064 (+469,915)
02. Montréal: 3,824,221 (+188,665)
03. Vancouver: 2,313,328 (+196,747)
04. Ottawa: 1,236,324 (+102,691)
05. Calgary: 1,214,839 (+135,529)
06. Edmonton: 1,159,869 (+124,924)
07. Ville de Québec: 765,706 (+46,553)
08. Winnipeg: 730,018 (+30,655)
09. Hamilton: 721,053 (+28,142)
10. Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo: 477,160 (+25,925)
11. London: 474,786 (+17,066)
12. St. Catharines–Niagara: 392,184 (+1,867)
13. Halifax: 390,328 (+17,470)
14. Oshawa: 356,177 (+25,583)
15. Victoria: 344,615 (+14,527)
16. Windsor: 319,246 (-4,096)
17. Saskatoon: 260,600 (+26,677)
18. Regina: 210,556 (+15,585)
19. Sherbrooke: 201,890 (+10,480)
20. St. John's: 196,966 (+15,853)
21. Barrie: 187,013 (+9,952)
22. Kelowna: 179,839 (+17,563)
23. Abbotsford-Mission: 170,191 (+11,171)
24. Greater Sudbury: 160,770 (+2,512)
25. Kingston: 159,561 (+7,203)
26. Saguenay: 157,790 (+1,485)
27. Trois-Rivières: 151,773 (+7,060)
28. Guelph: 141,097 (+7,399)
29. Moncton: 138,644 (+12,220)
30. Brantford: 135,501 (+10,894)
31. Saint John: 127,761 (+5372)
32. Thunder Bay: 121,596 (-1,311)
33. Peterborough: 118,975 (+2,405)
34. Lethbridge*: 105,999 (+10,803)
35. Chatham-Kent*: 104,075 (-4,514)

*CA

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

It's kind of irrelevant since Burlington wouldn't be included with Toronto anyway based on the CMA criteria. Fewer people commute to Hamilton from Burlington, but the enormous number of reverse-commuters from Hamilton to Burlington more than makes up for it.

So it has to be double commuting the. Back and forth transfer between two cities, despite size. Why reverse commuting takes precedence is beyond me.

[leftimage]

Couldn't find this anywhere so I figured I'd post it here. The graphic was published last October but re-posted in light of census results; it illustrates immigration demographics by Province since 1982. Visual types will enjoy...



FROM NATIONAL POST

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by mbeaumont

Anzac, Conklin, Draper, Fort Mackay, Fort Chipewyan, Janvier to name a few are other sources of population in the regional municipality

All those towns combined don't add up to 3000 people so while I wasn't exactly accurate in my statement that Fort Mac is the sole source of population for Wood Buffalo I was pretty damn close.

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Statistics Canada has methodology for everything, and as it turns out, that includes the naming of a CMA/CA. It is outlined here: http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/ref/dict/geo009-eng.cfm

Thanks for posting that. I've been wanting to read it for a while and the site is a nightmare to navigate.

Originally Posted by vid

Insulting other forumers, as well as creating new profiles to continue posting here after you've been banned, are both against forum rules. I'm surprised you've managed to last this long.

Might I remind you of a conversation we had on flickr quite a while back where I, in spite of repeated attempts, could not get through to you? I found your stubbornness breathtaking which is why I said;

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Maybe someone can state this in simpler terms for Vid because i'm quite confident he won't get this.

I don't just arbitrarily insult people.

[flar]

Originally Posted by dennis1

So it has to be double commuting the. Back and forth transfer between two cities, despite size. Why reverse commuting takes precedence is beyond me.

Commuting from:
Burlington to Toronto: 8,475
Burlington to Hamilton: 8,000
Toronto to Burlington: 1,345
Hamilton to Burlington: 24,270

I've explained to you before that for the past 30 years almost all office/industrial development in the Hamilton area has been in Burlington. Burlington has been getting all the development while Hamilton has lost tens of thousands of jobs.

I think the dynamic is fairly obvious: Burlington had greenfield development opportunities along the QEW along with low taxes and development fees. Hamilton has heavy industrial zones along the harbour and a high tax burden due to dwindling tax revenues and aging infrastructure. Other than the industrial park along the QEW in Stoney Creek, Hamilton has only recently opened up greenfield industrial parks with highway access. Burlington's space is almost filled now and new developments are starting to appear in Hamilton again.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by vid

StatsCan's census numbers count students as residents of their home town.

This is false. Students can declare where they want to to be counted.

If they feel like they'll permanently stay where they are studying, they may wish to be counted there, or vise versa. If they do decide to be counted at "home", they must still complete the Census for their apartment or residence as a special person, but must fill in a "0" where it asks for number of residents.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by flar

Commuting from:
Burlington to Toronto: 8,475
Burlington to Hamilton: 8,000
Toronto to Burlington: 1,345
Hamilton to Burlington: 24,270

I've explained to you before that for the past 30 years almost all office/industrial development in the Hamilton area has been in Burlington. Burlington has been getting all the development while Hamilton has lost tens of thousands of jobs.

I think the dynamic is fairly obvious: Burlington had greenfield development opportunities along the QEW along with low taxes and development fees. Hamilton has heavy industrial zones along the harbour and a high tax burden due to dwindling tax revenues and aging infrastructure. Other than the industrial park along the QEW in Stoney Creek, Hamilton has only recently opened up greenfield industrial parks with highway access. Burlington's space is almost filled now and new developments are starting to appear in Hamilton again.

I'm aware of that flar. I've also told you that its about what people identify with, and that is Burlington as part of the GTA now rather than as Hamilton in the past. I said it should not take precedence because we are not talking about reverse commuting. We are talking about commuting. Yes less people commute from Toronto west, I think that would be a given.

[eemy]

Just because I'm never satisfied with a simple answer, I've done a bit of analysis on Burlington. I should note that these figures include people working outside of the delineation urban cores and therefore are greater than the commuting figures used by Statistics Canada to determine CMA boundaries.





As you can see, under the the forward and reverse commuting rules, Burlington only qualifies as a part of Hamilton. Interestingly, under the CA/CMA merging rule of 35% combined, it would qualify to be a part of both Hamilton and Toronto, and Toronto would edge out Hamilton (56% vs. 46%). Nevertheless, this almost certainly wasn't the case historically and Burlington would have been a part of Hamilton long before Toronto started exerting influence on it.

The fact of the matter is that the commuting patterns with the the Golden Horseshoe are complicated enough that it doesn't really make a lot of sense to look solely at a single CMA. There is significant overlap between adjacent CMAs, particularly between Hamilton, Toronto and Oshawa. Consider, for example, Oakville. 29% of workers in Oakville come from municipalities in the Toronto CMA other than Oakville itself, while 27% come from the Hamilton CMA. Both satisfy the reverse-commuting rule (though only Toronto satisfies the forward-commuting rule). It just goes to show the overlap that occurs there - Statistics Canada really has to come up with some means of analysis that takes on a more regional scope.

My suggestion for a new geographic unit would be along the lines of a census region which would combine adjacent CMAs or CAs where overlap like this occurs.

[flar]

7090 people from Hamilton work in Oakville, 6810 work in Mississauga and 6925 work in Toronto.

The large number of people commuting out of Hamilton has been a concern for the city for many years and is the major reason the city has been pushing hard to open up the Aerotropolis and Red Hill business parks.

[flar]

Originally Posted by dennis1

I'm aware of that flar. I've also told you that its about what people identify with, and that is Burlington as part of the GTA now rather than as Hamilton in the past. I said it should not take precedence because we are not talking about reverse commuting. We are talking about commuting. Yes less people commute from Toronto west, I think that would be a given.

There are a lot of people in Burlington who want to disassociate with Hamilton, my experience is that many of them are ex-Hamiltonians. There are also many people in Burlington that do identify with Hamilton. People in Burlington tend to read the Spectator, cheer for the Ti-Cats and watch CHCH. There are many, many organizations and businesses that serve Hamilton and Burlington together (like the United Way, SPCA, Realtors Association, YMCA, the list could go on). Not to mention that Hamilton's business elite mostly lives in Burlington. There are a lot of longstanding ties between the two cities and few ties to Toronto other than the GO Train. No doubt Toronto exerts a strong influence on the whole region, but Hamilton and Burlington are 0 kms away from each other, while Toronto is 40-50 kms from Burlington.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Maybe someone can verify the numbers for me, but I'm getting that a number of townships surrounding Ottawa should be included in its CMA under the forward commuting rule. Mississippi Mills, Beckwith, Carleton Place and North Grenville (possibly among others, the only other one I checked was Arnprior) all had greater than 50% commuting into the Ottawa CMA. In most cases, it was only a bit more than 50% of the population of those municipalities, but in the case of Beckwith Twp, it was 62%.

In the 2006 rules, they must be working within the delineation urban core in order to count for the forward commuting rule. I'm not entirely clear what constitutes the delineation urban core, but my understanding is that it would refer to the primary urban core of the municipality. In that case, I wonder if the fact that Kanata being classified as urban fringe means that people commuting into Ottawa, but working in Kanata do not count when tallying commuters for the forward-commuting rule. The fact that Kanata is a very large employment node means that those municipalities to the west of Ottawa are likely going to see more commuters working in Kanata than in the rest of the city. Anyone have any insight?

I never looked into places farther back, and since they are all declining in population for the most part, it is likely there is a sharp dropoff in commuters once you go beyond those areas.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Just because I'm never satisfied with a simple answer, I've done a bit of analysis on Burlington. I should note that these figures include people working outside of the delineation urban cores and therefore are greater than the commuting figures used by Statistics Canada to determine CMA boundaries.





As you can see, under the the forward and reverse commuting rules, Burlington only qualifies as a part of Hamilton. Interestingly, under the CA/CMA merging rule of 35% combined, it would qualify to be a part of both Hamilton and Toronto, and Toronto would edge out Hamilton (56% vs. 46%). Nevertheless, this almost certainly wasn't the case historically and Burlington would have been a part of Hamilton long before Toronto started exerting influence on it.

The fact of the matter is that the commuting patterns with the the Golden Horseshoe are complicated enough that it doesn't really make a lot of sense to look solely at a single CMA. There is significant overlap between adjacent CMAs, particularly between Hamilton, Toronto and Oshawa. Consider, for example, Oakville. 29% of workers in Oakville come from municipalities in the Toronto CMA other than Oakville itself, while 27% come from the Hamilton CMA. Both satisfy the reverse-commuting rule (though only Toronto satisfies the forward-commuting rule). It just goes to show the overlap that occurs there - Statistics Canada really has to come up with some means of analysis that takes on a more regional scope.

My suggestion for a new geographic unit would be along the lines of a census region which would combine adjacent CMAs or CAs where overlap like this occurs.

Originally Posted by flar

7090 people from Hamilton work in Oakville, 6810 work in Mississauga and 6925 work in Toronto.

The large number of people commuting out of Hamilton has been a concern for the city for many years and is the major reason the city has been pushing hard to open up the Aerotropolis and Red Hill business parks.

1) That's a good graph and that's my point. That is a large gap of 10 percent, I thought it was closer.
2) They seriously do need a new desgination. And the economic regions are not enough.
3) Could you put one together for city of Oshawa? They have a stronger case the burlington.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by flar

There are a lot of people in Burlington who want to disassociate with Hamilton, my experience is that many of them are ex-Hamiltonians. There are also many people in Burlington that do identify with Hamilton. People in Burlington tend to read the Spectator, cheer for the Ti-Cats and watch CHCH. There are many, many organizations and businesses that serve Hamilton and Burlington together (like the United Way, SPCA, Realtors Association, YMCA, the list could go on). Not to mention that Hamilton's business elite mostly lives in Burlington. There are a lot of longstanding ties between the two cities and few ties to Toronto other than the GO Train. No doubt Toronto exerts a strong influence on the whole region, but Hamilton and Burlington are 0 kms away from each other, while Toronto is 40-50 kms from Burlington.

A lot of it is ex hamiltonians. There is a reason for that. There are people in St Kitts and Oakville who also watch CHCH as well, I know pres of the TiCats lives in Oakville. To be honest, I like the GTHA designation the province came up with without SC because it alliviates all my concerns, regardless of what the feds say.

[feepa]

Edmonton is the fastest growing CMA in Canada!!!!

[eemy]

Originally Posted by feepa

Edmonton is the fastest growing CMA in Canada!!!!

I'm getting that it was a close second to Calgary...

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recens...u.cfm?LANG=Eng&T=205&SR=1&S=5&O=D&RPP=33

[Deepstar]

Originally Posted by feepa

Edmonton is the fastest growing CMA in Canada!!!!

Close but no cigar