YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Zassk

For example, what are you referring to in 2005-06? YVR shows an incremental growth in those years just like every other recent year.

Not for international traffic. Down by 4,000 pax - essentially flat.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Totally agreed, esp when you consider that Brisbane's traffic equals ours, and Oslo, a city half the size or less has more pax than we do.

My question to you,and anyone else is, given that the airport authority doesn't seem to be grasping the dwindling growth, what form would this "shake up" take? A restructuring of personnel? Or something else?

I think that YVR needs someone at the helm who has come from running another major international airport in either Asia or Europe. Much like YYZ has just done - the nee CEO is the former COO at HKG. Canadian guy, but still.

Larry Berg seems to be too focused on aesthetics and streamlining international-domestic transfers for a segment that isn't growing too quickly. I'm not saying ignore that side of the operation, but I think there should be more focus on true growth. As I've said before, all the extra Asian flights that he brags about have had a redistribution effect on YVR, not a true growth effect.

Good point about Brisbane and Oslo too.

[deasine]

I'm not going to comment so much on Brisbane as I don't have much knowledge of their operations, but with regards to Oslo, keep in mind this is Norwegian Air Shuttle's main hub. Norwegian is one of the most successful low cost carriers in Europe, expected to grow as large as Easyjet within the next few years, and has really shaken up the market distribution in Scandinavia. It's a threat to legacy carriers such as SAS and Finnair. It has also ordered 787s and is expected to begin international long-haul routes pretty soon (quite a risky move as no low-cost carriers haven't really yet mastered this). So naturally, Oslo's traffic is significant due to the fact that its a hub!

My post I made a few pages back, I've pointed out that unless YVR becomes a major hub for an airline, it will be a challenge to gain high traffic numbers as it relies on a collection of foreign carriers that otherwise relies on Vancouver demand and on the transit-network by Canadian carriers, namely WestJet and Air Canada. Perhaps if anything, YVR needs to find ways to attract more WestJet and Air Canada operations to Vancouver. WestJet will probably have a higher chance given its expansion and interests in establishing international routes.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Zassk

According to the various stats at http://www.bts.gov/xml/air_traffic/src/datadisp.xml, air traffic in general has been basically flat since 2002. It would seem that YVR has slightly beat the overall trend. I'm not sure that there is anything in particular that needs explaining. For example, what are you referring to in 2005-06? YVR shows an incremental growth in those years just like every other recent year.

I guess I wouldn't consider slightly beating the average much of an accomplishment for a so-called hub.

9.3% and 2.2% growth in international and transborder traffic respectively over 11 years is not great anyway you slice it.

[deasine]

And more evidence of WS seriously taking on the transborder market; fresh from the pressroom.

This can definitely start more price wars between WestJet and Star Alliance carriers United and Air Canada. On the East Coast, Porter, Air Canada, and WestJet have offered fares to New York at unbelievably low prices. Depending on flight scheduling, this could become a feeder/codeshare for airlines such as CZ (no service to the East Coast) and MU (service to only New York).

WestJet adds Chicago to growing network

Airline complements eastern code-share flights with new service from the West

CALGARY, Feb. 7, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it will launch daily non-stop service between Chicago and Vancouver, and between Chicago and Calgary, effective May 14, 2012.

While WestJet will fly these routes with its own Boeing 737 Next-Generation aircraft, the airline will continue to market non-stop service from Chicago to Toronto, Chicago to Ottawa and Chicago to Montreal on our partner American Airlines' code-share flights. Chicago is an American Airlines' major hub, providing connections to key destinations in the U.S. and across the world.

"We're pleased to introduce service to and from Chicago," said John MacLeod, WestJet Vice-President, Network Management and Alliances. "The addition of Chicago shows how our continued growth and code-share agreements are working together to provide guests with non-stop service from the East and West. We believe this balance appeals to both business and leisure travellers looking to experience what Chicago has to offer, as well as for northbound travellers looking to visit Banff and the Rocky Mountains via Calgary or board cruise ships from Vancouver. We look forward to welcoming new and returning guests on board these exciting new services."

WestJet non-stop service between Vancouver, Calgary and Chicago is subject to government approval.

Full schedule details and great introductory one-way fares start at $149 from Calgary and $169 from Vancouver, plus applicable taxes and fees. Fares are available by visiting westjet.com, by calling WestJet's Sales Super Centre at 1-888-WESTJET (937-8538) or through your preferred travel agent.

With more access to more vacation destinations than ever before, WestJet Vacations offers flexible and convenient packages to popular destinations throughout WestJet's network, including Chicago. Guests can enjoy Chicago's Magnificent Mile with the convenience of booking flights and hotel together. Vacation packages will be available prior to the launch of service in May. For more information, visit westjetvacations.com, contact a WestJet Vacations Experience Specialist at 1-877-737-7001 or see your preferred travel agent.

The new destination announcement follows the release of the airline's summer schedule, which includes:

Seven-times daily service to New York (LaGuardia)
Daily service to Whitehorse, Yukon
Three-times weekly service to Kingston, Jamaica
Weekly non-stop service to Aruba
About WestJet
WestJet is Canada's favourite airline, offering scheduled service throughout its 76-city North American and Caribbean network. Inducted into Canada's Most Admired Corporate Cultures Hall of Fame and named one of Canada's best employers, WestJet pioneered low-cost flying in Canada. WestJet offers increased legroom and leather seats on its modern fleet of 97 Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft. With future confirmed deliveries for an additional 38 aircraft through 2018, WestJet strives to be one of the five most successful international airlines in the world.

About WestJet Vacations
WestJet Vacations provides guests with affordable, reliable and easy-to-book travel experiences to 45 destinations in 12 countries, including the United States, Mexico and the Caribbean. Leveraging WestJet's fun and friendly image, extensive network and world-class guest experience, WestJet Vacations offers guests a great flight schedule and a wide variety of hotel and resort options to create fun and affordable vacation experiences. For more information, visit www.westjetvacations.com.

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For further information:

Media contact
Robert Palmer, Media Relations, telephone: 1-888-WJ 4 NEWS (1-888-954-6397), email: [email protected].

(via WestJet)

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by deasine

So naturally, Oslo's traffic is significant due to the fact that its a hub!

My post I made a few pages back, I've pointed out that unless YVR becomes a major hub for an airline, it will be a challenge to gain high traffic numbers as it relies on a collection of foreign carriers that otherwise relies on Vancouver demand and on the transit-network by Canadian carriers, namely WestJet and Air Canada. Perhaps if anything, YVR needs to find ways to attract more WestJet and Air Canada operations to Vancouver. WestJet will probably have a higher chance given its expansion and interests in establishing international routes.

That's exactly the point, Oslo is a hub. Sadly, YVR is not really a hub. WJ's new regional carrier is focusing on YYC and YYZ, at least for the short term. That doesn't bode well for feeder traffic through YVR. Attracting Virgin Atlantic and Sichuan Airlines is not enough. Besides, I personally don't think Virgin will last too long and Sichuan just makes the market too crowded.

What I find particularly amusing is when CZ launched YVR service (and good on them for making it work so far) I read an article in a magazine that said the reason they wanted to fly to YVR was because, and I quote "Vancouver's Chinese population has been ranked as #1 in North America". First of all, I'm not even sure what the hell that means. Second of all, if they mean size of population it's not true, and third of all, that's hardly a reason to link up two cities if the yields will be low. It's concerning to see that's how some of the market research has been. I wish I could find the article again online but it was physically in a magazine at Indigo.

[Gordon]

WestJet's addition of Chicago is a good because it breaks AC\UA's monopoly on that route and will hopefully bring down prices.

I think Virgin is a low cost carrier so their service could be very popular.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Gordon

I think Virgin is a low cost carrier so their service could be very popular.

Could be. But their PR was to stimulate demand for the Olympics. Beyond that, I'm not sure how well the route will do.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by ACT7

I guess I wouldn't consider slightly beating the average much of an accomplishment for a so-called hub.

But as you said yourself in a later post, it is not a hub!

The demise of Canadian Airlines dealt a blow to any hopes of YVR becoming a hub. Even then, Calgary was the one being nurtured as a hub, not YVR.

Do we really have any chance of becoming a hub for any carrier? Our geographic location seems like it would always prevent this.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by galeforcewinds

Lowering corporate taxes would bring some jobs back here, also scrapping is much of the EU regulatory burden imposed by unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in Bruxelles.

I really really dont want to take this of topic but I have to respond, this would be the single stupidest thing they could do. Europe unlike NA doesnt have a strong resource based sector and it doesnt have a growing population either because it is already fully populated. The single best thing they could do, and In the next decade NA and most developed countries will be taking similar routes, is increasing protectionist measures and closing their borders to trade with un equal competition. Imposing heavy import taxes on products from countries which are third world manufacturing hubs and closing their borders off to competition from these countries. Lowering corporate taxes further would be a absolute disaster and wreck destruction on Europe, protectionism is the way to go. That means opening up trade between developed countries(ex.EU, NA, Japan, Korea, etc. lots of countries on a equal playing field) and while capping trade with developing countries who are cheap manufacturing hubs and not equal competition.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Zassk

But as you said yourself in a later post, it is not a hub!

The demise of Canadian Airlines dealt a blow to any hopes of YVR becoming a hub. Even then, Calgary was the one being nurtured as a hub, not YVR.

Do we really have any chance of becoming a hub for any carrier? Our geographic location seems like it would always prevent this.

That's true, but the volume of our California traffic exceeds that of Calagary, the volume of our winter vacation routes (two now year-round in Hawaii from YVR) plus simply the fact that Vancouver is a larger city (x 2.5) and therefore air market, might ... just might ... make YVR another another hub for West Jet? Or am I overoptimistic?

anyway, I forgot ... West Jet to Chicago, yeay !!!!

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Zassk

But as you said yourself in a later post, it is not a hub!

The demise of Canadian Airlines dealt a blow to any hopes of YVR becoming a hub. Even then, Calgary was the one being nurtured as a hub, not YVR.

Do we really have any chance of becoming a hub for any carrier? Our geographic location seems like it would always prevent this.

Precisely, I did say that. I was saying 'so-called' in this case because unfortunately AC gives false hope and YVR itself touts this claim as well.

I don't think geography is the reason that YVR will never be a true hub though (LAX is a true hub on the same coast). It's simply market size and market dynamics. L.A. is obviously a much bigger city but further away from Asia than YVR is.

Totally agree with your assessment of Canadian Airlines too.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That's true, but the volume of our California traffic exceeds that of Calagary, the volume of our winter vacation routes (two now year-round in Hawaii from YVR) plus simply the fact that Vancouver is a larger city and therefore air market might ... just might ... make YVR another another hub for West Jet? Or am I overoptimistic?

oh, I forgot ... West Jet to Chicago, yeay !!!!

I think WJ will use the same wording as AC regarding YVR, calling it a hub at some point, but I don't think Wesjet is big enough to have 3 true hubs. It's a focus city right now and will probably continue to be that for the forseeable future. But maybe I'm being too pessimistic...

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by Gordon

WestJet's addition of Chicago is a good because it breaks AC\UA's monopoly on that route and will hopefully bring down prices.

I think Virgin is a low cost carrier so their service could be very popular.

Virgin Atlantic is NOT a discount carrier. And while Virgin America is priced as a discount carrier, it's value is amazing and the inflight experience probably one of the best of any carrier in North America.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That's true, but the volume of our California traffic exceeds that of Calagary, the volume of our winter vacation routes (two now year-round in Hawaii from YVR) plus simply the fact that Vancouver is a larger city (x 2.5) and therefore air market, might ... just might ... make YVR another another hub for West Jet? Or am I overoptimistic?

anyway, I forgot ... West Jet to Chicago, yeay !!!!

Originally Posted by ACT7

I think WJ will use the same wording as AC regarding YVR, calling it a hub at some point, but I don't think Wesjet is big enough to have 3 true hubs. It's a focus city right now and will probably continue to be that for the forseeable future. But maybe I'm being too pessimistic...

Plus, YYC and YVR are just so close: it would be absolutely unsustainable for them to have two hubs at such geographical proximity. One of which will come out on top, and most likely that will be YYC because (1) it already has their base there, (2) it's cheaper to operate than YVR (I'm making an assumption here, but I think this assumption is valid).

Which is why when I look at WS international expansion, I can only see the Asian routes use YVR en-route to pick up the demand YVR has that YYC doesn't have. And plus, by doing this, economies of scale, it can still focus all of its maintenance work at YYC. But still, this is simply funneling traffic through. And unless demand significantly picks up at YVR (to warrant more attention by Canadian carriers), there will be little incentive for carriers to upgrade YVR to a true hub status.

And note, if an airline relies on a transit-market, there's no need to do it at YVR, carriers can use cheaper alternatives. Carriers are choosing to do so at YVR instead of YYC is because of our demand and that WS hasn't been penetrated the transborder market yet.

Nothing is static in the aviation world. YVR really needs to step up the game not only to attract new and more carriers, but also to retain existing ones. But then again, how much agency does the airport authority have given our current structure? I don't want to make it sound like doom and gloom, but I can't see how much YVR can do better other than improving its current product and offerings.

[PaperTiger]

YVR can only play to its strengths and try and communicate those strengths to the airline community. Ultimately the Airlines invest where they think they can realize a profit.

They have terminal capacity, they have no PST on fuel for international flights. They have top notch ground services , maintenance facilities, reasonable landing fees, Trans-border pre-clearance etc. etc. They are about to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on additional improvements. They were also voted the Best airport in North America. How exactly are they supposed to “Step Up” for Pete’s sake?

With regard to the WS hub issue, the other factor (beside cost) is location. Calgary is more central to western Canada therefore functions better as a western Canadian hub. If I live in Edmonton I’m not going to be keen on a jaunt to YVR before heading to YYZ, but a stop in YYC is more palatable. Once YYC is established as a WS hub it doesn’t make sense for them to try and make YVR one as well.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

They were also voted the Best airport in North America. How exactly are they supposed to “Step Up” for Pete’s sake?

Best airport in North America as voted by travellers and maybe travel agents is nice but it hardly means that that will translate into more traffic. It just means that it's a nice airport, which it is. So is YWG now - doesn't mean a thing if the building is empty half the time. By 'step up' we mean focus on its strengths for the market that it is, not just aesthetically improve the airport facilities. I would say focus on feeder traffic as much as possible to build its Asia Pacific network. It will never grow that segment based on the O&D demand that it has now. That's been proven since 2002 with the stagnant growth.

[twoNeurons]

People saying Vancouver is bigger than Calgary need to remember that if you're including YXX's catchment area (Abbotsford) into Vancouver then you have to include Edmonton when talking about Calgary.

In addition, Calgary has more head offices (more business travel).

Vancouver's traffic is primarily west. There are many Chinese nationals who live here and work in China and there is a lot of leisure travel.

If Vancouver can score a big head office or two its airport may respond in kind.

[memememe76]

I don't know if there are any numbers to back this up, but YVR seems to attract a good number of locals who come to the airport just for the fun of it. At least for me, we took our kids to the airport (after a day Downtown skating at the "ice rink" at the Art Gallery) via the Canada Line. Having Subway/A&W/Burger King for dinner while watching the planes on the runway made for an entertaining couple of hours. The kids love those telescopes!

[Gordon]

The airport can only do so much to attract airlines, when the landing slots are contolled by Ottawa.
when Victoria re-introduces they PST the should exclude Aviation fuel from the tax. did the Provincial government ever actually remove the aviation fuel surtax as they promised?

I wonder if the government make the airport a tax free zone . That would certainly help the cost competitiveness side of things.