The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[Good2go]

UPS has a full page ad in the paper today for a career fair at Crystal Palace on February 9. "Hub Operations Opening April 2012"

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I said that moving into the East Main Street Zellers location would be the simplest solution, not the most ideal solution. I have absolutely no inside knowledge as to what is actually going on here.

- the Northwest Centre Zellers is going to be converted to a Target.
- the fate of the East Main Street Zellers at the Superstore Mall is uncertain. While some Zellers locations may stay open as is, the fate of the chain is pretty much sealed and the only Zellers that won't be converted to Target or shuttered will probably be in small town markets. I therefore have no confidence that the East Main Street store will stay open in any event.
- The Bay has to vacate Highfield Square by the end of September because their lease was terminated. They apparently now want to remain in the Moncton market, but there are very few options for them in terms of relocation. The only "real" mall left in the city is Champlain Place and there is no suitable space available in the mall for them to move into. The Wal-Mart or Sobeys spaces at the mall might be a consideration, but this would entail displacing a long term tenant (that may not want to move) and major renovations.

It would seem the only readily available space would be the East Main Street Zellers. I absolutely agree that this is not ideal, both in terms of square footage and location, but perhaps the Bay would consider moving here as an intermediate term temporary solution (several years), while the retail situation in the metro area sorts itself out.

Key questions:
- will Wal-Mart vacate Champlain for a new Supercentre location (unlikely).
- will Sobeys vacate Champlain in favour of a new neighbourhood grocery store in the Uptown Dieppe/Harrisville area. (in either of these two scenarios, the Bay could renovate and then occupy the Wal-Mart or Sobeys spaces).
- could a new downtown development including an events centre incorporate enough space for a new standalone Bay department store in the core.
- would the Bay consider investing money in the East Main Street Zellers location to make the site a permanent home for the Bay.

The next few years will be quite interesting on the retail front.

HBC's Home Outfitters would be a nice fit for the Zellers location at Superstore Mall. Quite frankly, I'm a little surprised they aren't in the Moncton market yet.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

HBC's Home Outfitters would be a nice fit for the Zellers location at Superstore Mall. Quite frankly, I'm a little surprised they aren't in the Moncton market yet.

Home Outfitters is very similar to Sears Home which we have had for years...Linen Chest which just opened recently and Bed Bath & Beyond which is rumoured for this summer...I think they may be scared of over saturation of the market at this point, but I could see them here in 10 years.

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by Norshorer

The fact that the NB Gov is actually paying attention and are discussing possibly adopting a system similar to NS' incentive program = good news for the IT Sector (after hearing about call centers starting to shut down all over the province).
[/I][/COLOR]

As a web developer, I also realize that there are challenges at the moment, but that's probably mostly from competing cheap labour abroad and from the fragile US economy. Personally, I disagree with these incentives. All it does is put the burden onto other taxpayers. It's not right. Tax dollars should go to essentials: health care, education, law & roads. Nobody should be subsidizing my salary in the private industry, and my opinion wouldn't change even if I were at risk of losing my job. Realistically, a 30-40% rebate would be useless anyway when you're competing with Indian wages, and it also wouldn't fix the American economy (no demand = no work). There are already subsidies through R&D and other kinds of claims, some of which I think are bogus as well. Loopholes are abused. Loans and limited grants: sure. But if an industry needs to be propped up, we should let it die instead -- and that's especially true for call centres, which are hell holes: soul-sucking work, adults being treated like objects, and low wages from which little income tax is paid.

[riverviewer]

Not all Call Centers are hell-holes. Though I suspect you can find examples of horrid employers in any industry.

Some call centers, like the 911 center, or Tele-nurse, provide essential services. Many "contact centers" in Moncton also support administrative work. This is quite different than the "beep in your ear - how may I be yelled at" experience you may be imagining. Many good call center with hard calls are staffed appropriately to allow time between those calls for some heavenly moments with co-workers.

The work might be stressful at times due to ignorant customers, but the job itself can be rewarding for those that choose the work.

Call centers were the back-bone of the "Moncton Miracle" "so I think they deserve a little respect on our development forum.

[RaginRonic]

(This thread is for both Moncton and Saint John, so it is cross-posted)

For a long time, I've been thinking about a comparison between Moncton and Saint John, and now it's time for me to share my thoughts on the 2 cities.

Saint John used to, at one time, be the economic heart of N.B., with Moncton being an also ran. However, that has changed completely.

Why has it changed? Well, it's a few things, really.

1. Saint John placed all it's chips into heavy industry too much, and is now paying for it, with a shrinking population base and declining tax base. Moncton adapted with the times, threw it's chips into various industries, and is staying afloat pretty good.

2. Saint John is only now beginning to deal with it's pollution situation, many years too late to be relevant on the grander scale of things like coastal cleanliness and breathability. Moncton always has dealt with it's pollution issues, and is a pretty clean city.

And 3. Social attitudes in the City of Saint John tend to be way, WAY too pessimistic. It includes things like a severely fractured population, who allowed the more negative people to take control of the city, which include, sadly, the 5 'priority' neighborhoods, where the negatives in those areas figure that things are fine the way they are, because they say so. That attitude can, and has, cost some families dearly, through mental abuse and property loss.

And it has also led to too much drug use in them, with those people trying to run off cops from those neighborhoods, and the negative residents behaving like vigilantes illegally, where they use that bully stance to keep the status quo, which is really hurting the city.

Moncton is a city where people have a more pleasant outlook on life, and that has translated into the greatest advances that any city it's size can attest to. Moncton had both a water filtration plant and sewage treatment system in place, has more relevant construction happening in that city as well. The positivity has also resulted in Moncton gaining, over time, a full outdoor waterpark and indoor amusement park, as well as a greater flexibility in retail stores that is more spread out than in Saint John.

The people of Moncton, largely, seem like they also are busier with their time than those in the Port City are, with more money flowing around Moncton, and people in the Hub City not falling into so much despair.

Frankly, Saint John needs to break out of it's funk. I'm sorry to say that, if it does not, Saint John's economy may collapse within the next 20 years. And the claim that things aren't that bad in Saint John, is deceptive.

And if it means that the negative people have to be thrown out of Saint John, and start their lives elsewhere, so be it.

While the Saint John Sea Dogs did win the Maritimes' 1st ever QMJHL Presidents' and CHL Memorial Cups last year, and broke the Maritime 'glass ceiling' with those leagues, and is to be congratulated for that, I'm sorry to say that, eventually, that will just have been a litmus test to have Moncton become the hockey power in N.B., with the Sea Dogs likely fading from impactful relevancy in the QMJHL and CHL. Moncton will eventually take the torch from Saint John, especially when Moncton gets it's new arena.

In closing, Saint John needs to take a real hard look at itself in the mirror, cut the sad-sack mentality that is hiding behind a really seedy underbelly there, pull itself up, and maybe ask for help from Moncton on how to heal itself. Otherwise, Moncton may be the last man standing in the competition between the 2 cities, with Saint John becoming an unliveable city.

Thanks for reading this.

[Sushi Guy]

Why are you being so hard on yourself RaginRonic? Moncton and Saint John are two very different cities (IMO). They both have their Pros & Cons. Yes, Moncton is a vibrant city that grew a lot in the past 20 years. However, I don’t totally agree on the way that Moncton is growing…too much sprawling, focusing on a “car culture” life-style with an awful transit system. Don’t get me wrong, I like that Moncton is getting more and more outside businesses, improving in diversification and multiculturalism.

Nonetheless, I still think that we have a long way to got to have “a real Downtown” with a downtown atmosphere!! (I’m still optimistic). At least Saint John has a downtown with life, historical buildings, nice market connected to a downtown shopping center. Being a Port City, you receive flocks of tourist with all those cruise ships docking downtown; major development is on the way for the waterfront.

On the environmental side, you said that Moncton is better – Did you heard about the Peticodiac River? That causeway fiasco labelled our river as one of the worst one in Canada. Also did you know that half of downtown Moncton is built on old landfills? That’s one of the reasons why we can’t build big structures in some area; digging too much would reveal all the contaminated junk that is under there…Let’s just cover everything with asphalt and make parking lots or baseball fields!!!!

[BlackYear]

Originally Posted by Sushi Guy

Also did you know that half of downtown Moncton is built on old landfills? That’s one of the reasons why we can’t build big structures in some area; digging too much would reveal all the contaminated junk that is under there…Let’s just cover everything with asphalt and make parking lots or baseball fields!!!!

Sorry Sushi, you're way off on that one. The old Moncton landfill is between West Main traffic circle and Vaughn-Harvey blvd. and south of the rail tracks a long the river.

The only development on top of this landfill is a walking trail.

None of downtown Moncton or Moncton in general is built on any landfill. The historic photos will confirm this.

[Sushi Guy]

Originally Posted by Budyser

Sorry Sushi, you're way off on that one. The old Moncton landfill is between West Main traffic circle and Vaughn-Harvey blvd. and south of the rail tracks a long the river.

The only development on top of this landfill is a walking trail.

None of downtown Moncton or Moncton in general is built on any landfill. The historic photos will confirm this.

Yeah! maybe I'm wrong about the old lanfill location....

[jimmyboy67]

I just did a quick prescreen interview for UPS for a driver position. The starting wage is $13/hr, but your training for 7 days is paid at minimum wage. After 3 years, your wage is at regular rate of $27/hr.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Budyser

None of downtown Moncton or Moncton in general is built on any landfill. The historic photos will confirm this.

True, but it is also true that the vast majority of the lands south of Main Street used to be used for industrial/warehousing purposes back in the days when Moncton had an actual waterfront (complete with docks). There also used to be a railway spur that went all along the riverfront between Main and Assomption.

As such, there is no telling what type of toxic brew is down there waiting to be dug up. This could certainly be a barrier to development. Another problem would be that the closer you get to the river, the greater the concern would be for soil stability. This would limit the ability to build tall and to put in underground parking.

Don't get me wrong, it can be done (Blue Cross is pretty close to the river and is nine stories tall with a large underground garage), but this might increase the cost of any development.

[MonctonRad]

A few screen captures I took tonight from the TV broadcast of Moncton City Council deliberations showing the plans for the north section of Royal Oaks (to the north of the golf course), showing where the new high school will be located.







The light coloured block of land in the centre of the development will be the site of the new high school. In the first image, there is a green coloured strip of land bounding the east part of the high school property. This will apparently be part of the city's trail network and will connect to the Irishtown Nature Park. The developer plans to have an "academic gateway" to the nature park leading directly off the school property.

[NBNYer]

As if this development isn't far enough removed from the city, they're building even further north! They should have pushed west and connect to McLaughlin, as they originally planned.

There is a substantial amount of road to be built to actually get to the planned location for the school. This seams unnecessarily expensive, especially since phase one of Royal Oaks is not even completely built yet!

This is the kind of development that council should be trying to stop, definitely not encourage, as is the case here.

[MonctonRad]

Absolutely, this is an example of the worst type of sprawl, without even the barest nod towards the concept of "infill". What is being proposed here is essentially a new "satellite community", completely discontiguous with the remainder of the city!!

I also am appalled that there will be no connection through to MacLaughlin Road. This means that the entire traffic burden from this new community will be born by Elmwood Drive.

[RyeJay]

I've read the basic details regarding the location and development of this school. Others have expressed frustration over what this will cost the city now, and even more so for maintenance costs in the future.

My question is about the location: Who is benefiting from the placement of this school here? Please, let's not go into any hypotheticals about child pyschological benefits due to the students not being in an urban setting...while they sit in class. I want to know, money wise, who is benefiting from this development? Is it a method for encouraging more low-density residential?

First off, I am very doubtly of the existing demand in the housing market to develop more suburbia outside of Moncton.

Secondly, why are the municipal and provincial governments investing in more sprawl when the city cannot handle its current wide, low-density landscape? Why is this being done considering today's economics? Surely members of the government, and people living in Moncton, fully realise that the city cannot control gas prices -- anymore than the prices of building materials or even the prices of everything else.

[mylesmalley]

On the bright side, our nefarious plans to take over Irishtown are one step closer to fruition.

But man...next they're going to be demanding a police station, elementary school and firehall up there because of how 'completely unfair it is that all that stuff is so far away!'.

Hell, if you're going to build it that far, you might as well go all the way to Cocagne so the high school can have an ocean view!

[MonctonRad]

I imagine that you are right about an elementary school. As far as "neighbouhood" schools are concerned, I would think most parents would be more concerned about living near a K-8 school than a high school. If this development takes off and 4-5,000 people end up living out there, I'm sure a K-8 school will surely follow within the next 10-15 years.

The city is already planning to relocate the McLaughlin Road fire station to Elmwood near the TCH anyway. This actually makes sense though in terms of ease of access and proximity to the Caledonia Industrial Park.

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Ths most offensive thing about this entire project as far as I'm concerned is that, in the immortal words of Councillor Pierre Boudreau, this has been presented to the city as a fait accompli and there is absolutely nothing the city can do about it!

The province has already signed the agreement with Romspen to build the school. This is a legally binding contract. The site has already been chosen. The city is powerless to change this. The province can override any zoning restrictions that the city may want to institute at will. We forget that municipalities are "creatures" of the province and therefore only exist at the pleasure of the province.

An implicit threat has been made by the province that the city is expected to go along with this decision. In return for civic cooperation, the province will help out with infrastructure improvements to aid in this development. If the city fails to cooperate, then the province has apparently suggested that it in turn might not be so forthcoming with support for projects that the city is interested in.

This might explain why the province has suddenly withheld the $1M contribution to the Transportation Discovery Centre at the Moncton Museum. Certainly civic disobedience wojld imperil the downtown events centre as well. I imagine that city council is aware of the importance of these issues and is equally aware of their impotence in making any changes to the agreement between the province and Romspen.

The decision has already been made.....

[mylesmalley]

I've never actually been through the golf course component of Royal Oaks, so hopefully someone can enlighten me. What's up with the forest in the middle of the course? It doesn't seem to matter what time of year a photo is taken; the place always looks dead.

Also a bit inexplicable...why is there no connection to MacLaughlin Road? It would be barely a kilometre further back from the fastest end of that new monstrosity but would take a hell of a lot of pressure off of Elmwood.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

Also a bit inexplicable...why is there no connection to MacLaughlin Road? It would be barely a kilometre further back from the fastest end of that new monstrosity but would take a hell of a lot of pressure off of Elmwood.

Who knows?! traffic on Elmwood as well as other planing issues are obviously the least of concerns.

I would guess it is a land ownership/right-of-way issue.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I've never actually been through the golf course component of Royal Oaks, so hopefully someone can enlighten me. What's up with the forest in the middle of the course? It doesn't seem to matter what time of year a photo is taken; the place always looks dead.

I believe the area that you are referring to is a bog. That explains why it always looks dead and brown in any aerial photos. It's because it is in fact dead and brown......