Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 464

WarrenC12 · #**9261** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 12:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Yep. Pivot Society in action..

So glad this video came out!

Between those clowns and the BCCLA who were probably fighting the video cameras on buses in the first place... wow.

quobobo · #**9262** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 3:29 AM**

Don't get me wrong, that guy's a huge — (probably an understatement), but did you see the photos of his wounds? Ripping huge chunks of flesh out of someone's leg is a horrific thing to do to anyone, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that probably shouldn't happen before anyone is even charged or convicted.

logan5 · #**9263** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 3:55 AM**

Jesus Christ! It looks like a bear bit him. I think he has a legitimate case.

cornholio · #**9264** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 5:14 AM**

Exactly, the guy looks like a — and looks guilty but the police job is to apprehend with as little force as possible and to gather evidence for the crown. I can have sympathy for the police if its a chaotic situation where they have to make quick decisions but this didnt seem like one of those situations.

This story isnt about some a hole guy, its about how the police conducted themselves while apprehending him. Releasing a dog for the hell of it is no different then a bus driver running a red light for the hell of it. They are professionals and have a difficult job but their job comes with big responsibilities and they get paid accordingly, if they cant handle these responsibilities, and im sure many people cant, then they should not be police officers.

Its also unfortunate that the police are listening to their media relations people who probably said hey the guy looks like —, he is a —, and we have video he was guilty, lets release it and people will side with us and forget about the real issue. Instead they should explain their procedures of apprehension, and why they apprehended him in the manner that they did, and what changes they could make if it was inappropriate.

aberdeen5698 · #**9265** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 6:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

This story isnt about some a hole guy, its about how the police conducted themselves while apprehending him.

This guy demonstrated belligerent and aggressive behaviour and it wouldn't be unreasonable for the police to be concerned that he was hyped up on something. He was warned that the dog would be set free (sorry, I don't buy the earphones defence when the officer had his vehicle's lights and siren on). It's reasonable to assume he was in a similar same state of mind as he was shortly before when he attacked the bus, and in that case it wouldn't surprise me if he if tried to resist the dog, possibly with the skateboard or something else at hand, causing the dog to become more aggressive.

In other words, I think it's very possible he brought it on himself. I'm certainly not going to condemn the police response based on the evidence I've seen.

cornholio · #**9266** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 7:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

This guy demonstrated belligerent and aggressive behaviour and it wouldn't be unreasonable for the police to be concerned that he was hyped up on something. He was warned that the dog would be set free (sorry, I don't buy the earphones defence when the officer had his vehicle's lights and siren on). It's reasonable to assume he was in a similar same state of mind as he was shortly before when he attacked the bus, and in that case it wouldn't surprise me if he if tried to resist the dog, possibly with the skateboard or something else at hand, causing the dog to become more aggressive.

In other words, I think it's very possible he brought it on himself. I'm certainly not going to condemn the police response based on the evidence I've seen.

Why use a dog, just shoot the guy then. Hell lets just tweak the rules of apprehension a bit and simplify them to 1# identify your self as a police officer, #2 tell the suspect to so stop, #3 giver three seconds then open fire.

Sounds very logical?

The police are supposed to be trained professional, their job is to apprehend and detain a "suspect" with as little force as possible and to then gather evidence. Did they do that?

Doesnt look like it to me, looks more like they went ahhh nice day to sick the dog on him, havent used the dog in awhile. This is not professional conduct, its not what they get payed the big bucks for. Their job comes with big responsibilities, if they cant handle them then they should not be police officers(and i wouldn't blame them, most people are not capable of these responsibilities).

WarrenC12 · #**9267** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 1:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

Doesnt look like it to me, looks more like they went ahhh nice day to sick the dog on him, havent used the dog in awhile. This is not professional conduct, its not what they get payed the big bucks for. Their job comes with big responsibilities, if they cant handle them then they should not be police officers(and i wouldn't blame them, most people are not capable of these responsibilities).

Your one-sided interpretation is laughable. Watch that video again, and then imagine how that individual treated the police.

NucksFanInVan · #**9268** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

Why use a dog, just shoot the guy then. Hell lets just tweak the rules of apprehension a bit and simplify them to 1# identify your self as a police officer, #2 tell the suspect to so stop, #3 giver three seconds then open fire.

Your facetious response is not constructive. Let's review the facts as they were known at the time:

1. Police receive a 911 call from a bus driver with a bus full of passengers concerned for their safety.

2. The suspect has violently assaulted the bus with a weapon (yes a skateboard can be a weapon when used like that. If you disagree I will be pleased to swing it at your head with it and then ask your opinion again).

3. The suspect was pursued with lights and sirens into a confined alley and did not stop or surrender.

The fact that the guy was playing music so loud he can't hear a police siren at close range and is too focussed or distracted or strung out to notice the flashing lights IS NOT THE POLICE'S PROBLEM. All the police knew was that this guy was violent, made people feel threatened, and
refused to stop when so ordered.

Given the options available, a dog was a reasonable level of escalation in the application of non-lethal force that minimized the risk to the officer and assured the safety of the public.

If you oppose the actions of the police then propose a realistic alternative. I still haven't seen one.

I mean, "bark and hold". Are you kidding?

aberdeen5698 · #**9269** Posted **Jan 31, 2012, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

Why use a dog, just shoot the guy then.

Let me ask the question of you then - if someone tried to assault you with a heavy object and you had a choice between using your — and siccing your dog on him, which would you choose?

SpongeG · #**9270** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 5:36 AM**

sorry for the guy who got bit, but attacking and wrecking a bus and not surrendering to police - he got what was coming to him

why do we cater so much to the criminals and make them out to be the victims? oh poor criminal we were too harsh on you

racc · #**9271** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 7:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

sorry for the guy who got bit, but attacking and wrecking a bus and not surrendering to police - he got what was coming to him

why do we cater so much to the criminals and make them out to be the victims? oh poor criminal we were too harsh on you

It is not the job of the police to punish people, that is the job of the courts. We fortunately don't live in a police state.

SpongeG · #**9272** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 7:41 AM**

so they should just let him get away? the guy had to be arrested for what he did or do we just say oh so sorry you destroyed our bus be on your way now?

get real

you condone going out and committing crimes without consequences?

he wasn't punished - he evaded the police for a crime he just committed - what do they do? sit there and say "please come here mr criminal and we will kindly take you with us and set you free"

they did what they had to do and why we have police to arrest the criminals, unfortunately for this one he was too dumb instead of surrending they had to set the dog on him oh boo hoo if you can't abide by societys laws...

Metro-One · #**9273** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 7:41 AM**

It is their job to reprehend, and if someone is resisting or escaping arrest, then they can use non-lethal force to stop them, such as a k-9 unit.

Given how this guy was such a punk turd in the bus video, something tells me that his story of the events may be a little........off from the truth to put it nicely.

He probably was trying to evade the police, i don't believe for a second that he was unaware of their presence.

Police were simply doing their job in this instance, and maybe now he will have actually learned to think twice before violently damaging public property and terrorizing other citizens.

jozero · #**9274** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 7:15 PM**

The Canadian Charter of Rights explicitly states the force used to obtain an arrest must be in line to the crime.

If someone is running around shooting a — the police are fully in their right to use equal force. If someone breaks a window on a bus and skateboards a way, the use of force to bring you down shouldn't give you an injury for life.

How the police arrest an individual or obtain evidence must be considered by Crown when deciding what punishment the public (remember, Crown represents the public) want from the individual.

Yah the guy is a pure jackass, but that rule in the Charter is a check and balance against us living in a Police state. The police have a really tough job, but they know that.

WarrenC12 · #**9275** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by racc

It is not the job of the police to punish people, that is the job of the courts. We fortunately don't live in a police state.

A fine job they did here too, staying the charges.

Do they need more evidence? What a joke.

officedweller · #**9276** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 8:35 PM**

Off topic, but this is why you don't want municipal politicians in charge of transit:

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhallpoli...eless-metrolinx-is-failing-transit-users

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1124...-karen-stintz-under-the-bus?bn=1#article

cc85 · #**9277** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Off topic, but this is why you don't want municipal politicians in charge of transit:

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhallpoli...eless-metrolinx-is-failing-transit-users

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1124...-karen-stintz-under-the-bus?bn=1#article

Or, you just want better politicians who actually understand the legislation in which they work under.

twoNeurons · #**9278** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 8:58 PM**

I bet if we didn't have that whole Tazer incident they would've tazered him instead.

officedweller · #**9279** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc85

Or, you just want better politicians who actually understand the legislation in which they work under.

Arguably, that's hard at the municipal level since that's where many policitians start out.

racc · #**9280** Posted **Feb 1, 2012, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so they should just let him get away? the guy had to be arrested for what he did or do we just say oh so sorry you destroyed our bus be on your way now?

get real

you condone going out and committing crimes without consequences?

he wasn't punished - he evaded the police for a crime he just committed - what do they do? sit there and say "please come here mr criminal and we will kindly take you with us and set you free"

they did what they had to do and why we have police to arrest the criminals, unfortunately for this one he was too dumb instead of surrending they had to set the dog on him oh boo hoo if you can't abide by societys laws...

Your last comment was pretty clear in that you think that it is the police's role to punish people. It is not. It is to arrest people with the minimum amount of force required. Lets let the courts decide on whether it was too much force or not. They have much better information than you or I do.