Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yep, some people are real a**holes. Unfortunately cyclists aren't the worst of them.

?? I dont follow that logic. As someone who now cycles (finally got my new (used) bike last month!), drives, walks and takes transit I notice a similar percentage of real assholes in all forms of commuting.

And, they are all the worst of them.

Anyways, about the scramble intersections, wouldn't Granville and Gerogia, and Robson and Granville be better candidates for the first implemented?

[tybuilding]

I like the idea of the pedestrian scramble.

But one improvement that can be made at most intersections is when a pedestrian touches the push button the walk signal turns on when the light is still green. Nothing frustrates me more when walking is just getting to an intersection when the light just turns green and not getting a walk signal. One has to wait until the next green phase for the direction that you are travelling to get a walk signal.

For example I was walking at an intersection in Prince George last week. I just walked up to the light as it turned green so I missed it, the light stayed green for another 30-45 seconds and the next phase went. I crossed about 1.5-2 minutes after getting to the light in my first direction. I didn't realize there wasn't going to be a sidewalk so I had to cross to the opposite corner. I then had to wait for the advanced green phase before I could cross. Total time to get across the intersection diagonally was around 2.5-3 minutes and 4 phases! Made me want to jaywalk. A scramble would have been nice too.

[jlousa]

I agree the "push to walk" in a city where pedestrians are supposed to be first is beyond belief. My fav for that is Vic and 41st which is one of the busiest pedestrian intersections and if no one pushes the button they get no walk light.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

?? I dont follow that logic. As someone who now cycles (finally got my new (used) bike last month!), drives, walks and takes transit I notice a similar percentage of real assholes in all forms of commuting.

And, they are all the worst of them.

Anyways, about the scramble intersections, wouldn't Granville and Gerogia, and Robson and Granville be better candidates for the first implemented?

cambie and broadway would be a great spot for one - getting to whole foods from the station would be so much easier

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

?? I dont follow that logic. As someone who now cycles (finally got my new (used) bike last month!), drives, walks and takes transit I notice a similar percentage of real assholes in all forms of commuting.

My intent was that at least an idiot on a bike can't do as much damage as an idiot in a car. I agree that they're all reprehensible, but if I had my druthers I'd rather not have to deal with the car variant.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

...one improvement that can be made at most intersections is when a pedestrian touches the push button the walk signal turns on when the light is still green.

This is one of my top pet peeves as a pedestrian, too.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

cambie and broadway would be a great spot for one - getting to whole foods from the station would be so much easier

I have no problem with them doing so here, i would just think they would also include the others I mentioned. I use that intersection often and look forward to the scramble!

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I agree the "push to walk" in a city where pedestrians are supposed to be first is beyond belief. My fav for that is Vic and 41st which is one of the busiest pedestrian intersections and if no one pushes the button they get no walk light.

i'd prefer the 'push-to'walk' if they implemented it well (rapid response to the push) I'd rather push to walk than wait for a long-ish light.

A lot of pedestrian activity dies out at night, especially when it gets dark early on a rainy night.

[usog]

So I've been wondering, what's the goal of all the cycling advocates in Vancouver? The impression that I've formed is that there's the vocal hardcore few that want their every cycling-related whim catered to(ha!), but in general it goes toward promoting cycling for long-distance commuting and outdoor recreation. My experience is limited to Asia but it seems like places with widespread bicycle usage seem to go in the opposite way, with bikes being used for short-distance(often connecting to other transportation) commuting and for running other errands.

The fact that you aren't even allowed to bike on sidewalks but are funneled onto either generally-underused bike lanes or just the road itself seem to work against this, is this because cyclists here can't be trusted to share the sidewalk? Of course people here aren't genetically trained to respond to a bike bell so idunno lol. That and that it's bloody impossible to buy a practical, quality bike in Vancouver unless you want to import it seems. Thoughts anyone?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by usog

So I've been wondering, what's the goal of all the cycling advocates in Vancouver?

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I want is safe, convenient bike routes that let me get around town. The city's already gone a long way toward this - the downtown bike lanes have made a huge difference for that last couple of km, the opening of the Central Valley Greenway section between Renfrew and Boundary has made it far easier to get into mid-Burnaby than it used to be, and lowering the speed limit to 30km/h on the bike routes and adding diversions to help calm traffic has made them safer and more pleasant, IMHO.

There are a few areas that still need improvement. The "sharrow"-based bike routes are a joke - I don't feel safe using them and so I sometimes have to go further out of my way than I'd like. An east/west cross-town route at a latitude near 45th Avenue is also needed - the city is working on the west end of this but it needs to connect to the existing route east of Nanaimo. And there have been some very poor choices made for a few of the routes (Vanness??? Why on earth not Euclid???).

But the current situation is a vast improvement over what I had to content with in previous decades. We've come an awfully long way - I don't really think we have all that much further to go.

[worldwide]

Originally Posted by usog

The fact that you aren't even allowed to bike on sidewalks but are funneled onto either generally-underused bike lanes or just the road itself seem to work against this, is this because cyclists here can't be trusted to share the sidewalk? Of course people here aren't genetically trained to respond to a bike bell so idunno lol. That and that it's bloody impossible to buy a practical, quality bike in Vancouver unless you want to import it seems. Thoughts anyone?

the average speed of a pedestrian is what? 3kmh. i can easily push 40kmh on my bike, thats much closer to the speed of traffic downtown then it is to the speed of pedestrians. the only people who should ride on the sidewalks are seniors, small children, and tourists . as for practical, quality bikes, I own several. where are you shopping?

[racc]

Originally Posted by usog

So I've been wondering, what's the goal of all the cycling advocates in Vancouver? The impression that I've formed is that there's the vocal hardcore few that want their every cycling-related whim catered to(ha!), but in general it goes toward promoting cycling for long-distance commuting and outdoor recreation. My experience is limited to Asia but it seems like places with widespread bicycle usage seem to go in the opposite way, with bikes being used for short-distance(often connecting to other transportation) commuting and for running other errands.

The fact that you aren't even allowed to bike on sidewalks but are funneled onto either generally-underused bike lanes or just the road itself seem to work against this, is this because cyclists here can't be trusted to share the sidewalk? Of course people here aren't genetically trained to respond to a bike bell so idunno lol. That and that it's bloody impossible to buy a practical, quality bike in Vancouver unless you want to import it seems. Thoughts anyone?

Obviously flame bait but whatever, I'll bite. Every whim eh, I guess you've never really cycled here or are just used to really crappy cycling facilities here. While there has been progress made lately, we are still a long way from a network of bike routes that people of all ages can feel comfortable cycling on. More traffic calming is needed on residential streets and more separated bike lanes downtown and on arterials. Bikes, cars and pedestrians all travel at different speeds so it is really impractical for any to share the same space. That is why we need separated bike lanes in addition to sidewalks and roads for cars. Otherwise, it is just really frustrating for everyone.

[usog]

Originally Posted by racc

Obviously flame bait but whatever, I'll bite. Every whim eh, I guess you've never really cycled here or are just used to really crappy cycling facilities here. While there has been progress made lately, we are still a long way from a network of bike routes that people of all ages can feel comfortable cycling on. More traffic calming is needed on residential streets and more separated bike lanes downtown and on arterials. Bikes, cars and pedestrians all travel at different speeds so it is really impractical for any to share the same space. That is why we need separated bike lanes in addition to sidewalks and roads for cars. Otherwise, it is just really frustrating for everyone.

Not flame-bait, honest question (except for the flippant remark aimed at the hyper-cyclists but c'mon) =\ I spend time overseas in Asia and I'm talking about, for example, the huge bike pens they have in Japan for people who ride to train stations and then transfer for their commute. Or just Asia in general where people can ride bikes for short errands like buying groceries or something. In Japan people even seem hard-wired to by instinct move to the side whenever they hear a bike bell (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_MphtzCOEc ) And honestly I just ride on the sidewalk anyways for my bike-trips to the grocery store here(without a helmet to boot!, I know).

I remember posting here before looking for a cheap, practical city-bike that was solidly built and had the usual conveniences such as baskets and mud-guards, like the flying-pigeon bicycles ubiquitous from China. Couldn't find a single thing at a decent price at any of the shops in the Vancouver area, they all only had bikes closer to the $1000 range and admitted they didn't carry what I was looking for. I ended up finding a cheaper folding bike that had mudguards but no basket for about $300-400ish.

Honestly, I'm just curious about the difference in mindset between places in Asia where I've seen widespread bicycle adoption, and what goes on in Vancouver.

[SpongeG]

one of my instructors at school rides in from capital hill burnaby to downtown vancouver everyday, thats a pretty long commute by bike i would think - takes him 25 mins to work and about 45+ to get home - since its mostly up

[WarrenC12]

I ride from Yaletown to "northern" Richmond most weekdays to work. Speaking as a daily commuter, separated lanes would be awesome, but I don't have any. Painted lanes like those on Cambie are great. Having to divert to "bike friendly" non-painted roadways is more of a pain than anything (Yukon for example). They are bike routes, but all that means is more bikes, no real protection or rules.

The biggest issue is when these bike routes cross big roads without any "help" like a light. This is a problem for me on 16th and King Ed, especially during rush hours when there is a lot of busy E-W traffic. I'm not suggesting yet another traffic light, but this would be solved by having the bike route be on the main road route (Cambie in this case).

[dreambrother808]

Riding your bike on the sidewalk is against the law unless you're under 16. Cyclists on sidewalks are rather frustrating because they take up a lot of room and tend to swerve in and around pedestrians in an unnerving fashion.

[twoNeurons]

Bikes in Asia are a completely different beast. Given that you've been to Japan I'm surprised that you didn't notice the following

1. Sidewalks are wider (allowing for bikes to co-exist)
2. Bikes are slower. They are generally single speed or max 6 gears.
3. Things are generally closer
4. Bikes are an alternative to walking, not to driving
5. Bikes are cheaper and far more pervasive
6. Baskets and child seats

to elaborate a little bit:

Skip to 70 seconds to see a bunch of moms with 2 or 3 kids in bike seats.
• Video Link

source (and good article).

[usog]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Bikes in Asia are a completely different beast. Given that you've been to Japan I'm surprised that you didn't notice the following

1. Sidewalks are wider (allowing for bikes to co-exist)
2. Bikes are slower. They are generally single speed or max 6 gears.
3. Things are generally closer
4. Bikes are an alternative to walking, not to driving
5. Bikes are cheaper and far more pervasive
6. Baskets and child seats

There we go that was what I couldn't wrap my head around. Here bikes are car replacements where elsewhere in the world they're walking replacements. But with regards to your list, I wouldn't say sidewalks are that much wider as shown in that magical human-parting bell video I showed. And yeah the cheaper bike thing is definitely an issue, you'd think someone in Vancouver would be smart enough to sense the untapped market. And as Greater Vancouver has densified, I'd say things are close enough to make biking a good walk-replacement. It just puzzles me why no one in power ever considers biking as a walking-replacement rather than driving one.

[officedweller]

For the same reason that jogging is easier than cycling - sportwise.

Less hassle dealing with equipment.

[tybuilding]

Bike Share Article

Sterile solutions wheeled out to Vancover’s shared helmet dilemma