YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Would it be a good idea or not to upgrade and expand YXX - on a moderate level - to act as a backup for Vancouver in case of any problems: security, thick fog (messes up radars) or such?

[SpongeG]

westjet advertisez them - mostly in the suburban newspapers and areas perhaps

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Would it be a good idea or not to upgrade and expand YXX - on a moderate level - to act as a backup for Vancouver in case of any problems: security, thick fog (messes up radars) or such?

it has been expanded and upgraded in the recent years - they have a plan/goal they are following

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Would it be a good idea or not to upgrade and expand YXX - on a moderate level - to act as a backup for Vancouver in case of any problems: security, thick fog (messes up radars) or such?

I remember back in the early 2000's YVR was fogged right in and YYC got a bulk of the diversions. Most of them being Asia flights that couldn't land. From a standpoint of facilities and security it would be hard to beat YYC as a relatively close backup for those rare occasions?

[Gordon]

I don't think fog is nearlly the problem that it used to be, because the North runway is a category 3 runway , this means that planes can land in close to 0 visibility.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

ANA has no service to Canada, because Air Canada funnels traffic to them for domestic / regional connections without ANA having to spend a yen

With the exception of the 787 (which AC will have soon, anyways) ANA isn't all that nice of an airline, to be honest.

I flew with them from KIX - HKG - HND last month and wasn't impressed with... anything. Only did it to make sure I'm still Star Alliance Gold next year~

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Well, they are an OK airline. Very "basic" I would say compared to say, a Singapore Airlines. I only flew business class, and their lounge in KIX is atrocious. The interiors of the planes are a bit drab, even though they are relatively new. Actually, I've heard complaints (never seen it myself) that the 787 interior could have been a lot better. It's nothing like the Boeing mockups that looked so futuristic lol

As far as interiors / business or first class service go, I'd have to say JAL beats them. Of course, not on the old plane they send to YVR

But what good are OneWorld Alliance points in North America!

Be that as it may, ANA will soon start flying Boeing 787s into both Seattle and San Jose in 2012 ..... as the sun slowly sets on YVR (heck, even Brisbane and Oslo have higher pax ## than we do. (Ha, they might start flying 787s from Toronto to Japan pretty soon ... wouldn't surprise me if some Asian airline did, anyway .....)

[PaperTiger]

JeeZus you guys,

The sky is not falling on YVR. We are still posting growth, 1.3% year on year, even if it is modest. Have you forgotten the addition of China Southern and Virgin Atlantic? Air Sichuan has announced, and we all know that the 787's will eventually lead to some kind of direct India connection.

Incidentally, does anyone know how much Sea-Tac grew year on year. ... 1%same as us.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

JeeZus you guys,

The sky is not falling on YVR. We are still posting growth, 1.3% year on year, even if it is modest. Have you forgotten the addition of China Southern and Virgin Atlantic? Air Sichuan has announced, and we all know that the 787's will eventually lead to some kind of direct India connection.

Incidentally, does anyone know how much Sea-Tac grew year on year. ... 1%same as us.

I won't contradict in any way, but it seems to me that they are overtaking YVR on International (non-transborder) destinations. Perhaps more of their growth is dometic; I don't know. But you can now (or will soon be able to) get to important places from SEA-TAC that you can't from Vancouver.
Then again, in all fairness, Seattle has 1m more people metro, and is a larger business market, with its major corporations anchored there.

[PaperTiger]

International Destinations that Seattle has that we don’t:
Osaka, Paris, Reykjavik, Dubai.

International Destinations that Vancouver has that Seattle doesn’t:
Hong Kong, Manila, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Mexico City.

I still say we are doing fine.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

International Destinations that Seattle has that we don’t:
Osaka, Paris, Reykjavik, Dubai.

International Destinations that Vancouver has that Seattle doesn’t:
Hong Kong, Manila, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Mexico City.

I still say we are doing fine.

OK ... but Mexico City? Seattle has that and Guadalajara, too, according
to the SEA-TAC website.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

OK ... but Mexico City? Seattle has that and Guadalajara, too, according
to the SEA-TAC website.

Aeromexico used to operate Seattle-Mexico City nonstop but that's been pulled from schedule for a while now.

Not sure about GDL but AS operates one stop service to GDL from SEA (via SJC and SMF). No current non-stops loaded into schedule.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by incognism

Aeromexico used to operate Seattle-Mexico City nonstop but that's been pulled from schedule for a while now.

Not sure about GDL but AS operates one stop service to GDL from SEA (via SJC and SMF). No current non-stops loaded into schedule.

Thanks for that info. Nevertheless, I'd like to see a couple more major desinations from Vancouver. Somehing to make us ito a true air hub. That may or may never happen; only time - and a less tight-assed federal transport commission, will tell.

The USA is signing numerous bilaterals, while timid, protectionist (it's in their DNA, it seems) Canadian authorities hobble this country - except Toronto, of course.

[Rusty Gull]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

International Destinations that Seattle has that we don’t:
Osaka, Paris, Reykjavik, Dubai.

International Destinations that Vancouver has that Seattle doesn’t:
Hong Kong, Manila, Guangzhou, Shanghai, Mexico City.

I still say we are doing fine.

Don't get me started on Osaka OR Dubai. Don't get others on this forum started on Paris.

I say Seattle IS a threat to YVR - especially if Bellingham's airport gets more carriers connecting to Seattle's long-haul flights. Of course, much of this is due to AC's obsession with bolstering YYZ.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Don't get me started on Osaka OR Dubai. Don't get others on this forum started on Paris.

I say Seattle IS a threat to YVR - especially if Bellingham's airport gets more carriers connecting to Seattle's long-haul flights. Of course, much of this is due to AC's obsession with bolstering YYZ.

Thank you again, Rusty! My interpretation of the situation exactly !

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

JeeZus you guys,

The sky is not falling on YVR. We are still posting growth, 1.3% year on year, even if it is modest. Have you forgotten the addition of China Southern and Virgin Atlantic? Air Sichuan has announced, and we all know that the 787's will eventually lead to some kind of direct India connection.

Incidentally, does anyone know how much Sea-Tac grew year on year. ... 1%same as us.

True, but as I mentioned before, YVR's growth in for the past 5 years has been recovery of pax, whereas nearby airports have actually grown. Over the years, even AC has scaled back its Asian operations from YVR. AC 007 to HKG begins and ends in YYZ some days of the week now.

[trofirhen]

Now that Evil Emirates is flying to Seattle, that the Vancouver - India runs should start as soon as the Boeing 787s arrive, that still leaves a question, or perhaps opportunity open for destinations in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and many in Africa.

What about - laugh or scorn this out as you may - Istanbul as a destination? It makes a perfect transit point for the places mentioned, and Turkish Airlines is expanding fast.

I guess it comes back to the Vancouver market being too small, without the large % of business class tickets needed to make such a route viable.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

+1 Never heard anyone choosing abbotsford over YVR, but I have heard a lot of cases where people drive down to BLI or SEA for a flight.

Yes, YXX loses a considerable amount of US traffic to BLI. However, many in the Fraser Valley, especially Langley to Hope, choose YXX over YVR for domestic flights to Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto etc.

It's much more convenient for them not to have to go into the city and parking is cheaper.

That's also a big PLUS BLI has. Parking is cheap, convenient and relatively painless... even for Vancouverites. It may siphon off some of the low end of the market for US flights from YVR.

Istanbul would be a GREAT destination to have. I see it more of a vacation/charter place at first, though.

I can't wait to see how the 787 shakes up the industry... and how much of an effect it will have. I wonder if it (and other planes to follow) will have the similar effect that long range jets had on the market, opening up more destinations, without the need for multiple transfers.

Time will tell.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

+1 Never heard anyone choosing abbotsford over YVR, but I have heard a lot of cases where people drive down to BLI or SEA for a flight.

In related news. ANA has just announced a new route from Tokyo (NRT) to Seattle (SEA).
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12...ights-to-seattle-san-jose-in-fy2012.html

With JAL flights downgrading from full 747 to 777 to 767, this is kind of sad news since ANA won't be flying to YVR anytime soon with their planned service to Seattle now.

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

Don't get me started on Osaka OR Dubai. Don't get others on this forum started on Paris.

I say Seattle IS a threat to YVR - especially if Bellingham's airport gets more carriers connecting to Seattle's long-haul flights. Of course, much of this is due to AC's obsession with bolstering YYZ.

Originally Posted by ACT7

True, but as I mentioned before, YVR's growth in for the past 5 years has been recovery of pax, whereas nearby airports have actually grown. Over the years, even AC has scaled back its Asian operations from YVR. AC 007 to HKG begins and ends in YYZ some days of the week now.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Yes, YXX loses a considerable amount of US traffic to BLI. However, many in the Fraser Valley, especially Langley to Hope, choose YXX over YVR for domestic flights to Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto etc.

It's much more convenient for them not to have to go into the city and parking is cheaper.

That's also a big PLUS BLI has. Parking is cheap, convenient and relatively painless... even for Vancouverites. It may siphon off some of the low end of the market for US flights from YVR.

Istanbul would be a GREAT destination to have. I see it more of a vacation/charter place at first, though.

I can't wait to see how the 787 shakes up the industry... and how much of an effect it will have. I wonder if it (and other planes to follow) will have the similar effect that long range jets had on the market, opening up more destinations, without the need for multiple transfers.

Time will tell.

Sorry to sound alarmist, but it would seem YVR needs several new strategic overseas destinations FAST!

Too bad we have neither the business class market (yet) to attain a profitable yield factor, and that despite all the talk, the Federal Transport Ministry still coddles AC and forces changing planes at YYZ, whenever possible.

[incognism]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Sorry to sound alarmist, but it would seem YVR needs several new strategic overseas destinations FAST!

Too bad we have neither the business class market (yet) to attain a profitable yield factor, and that despite all the talk, the Federal Transport Ministry still coddles AC and forces changing planes at YYZ, whenever possible.

While I do agree that the government has been quite protectionist with AC (the whole Emirates debacle), AC in the end is still a business that (tries) to make money.

If the load factors were there to justify direct flights from YVR, I assume they would position themselves to take advantage of that. Right now, everything goes through YYZ because it is necessary.

[SpongeG]

i wonder if people in kansas city sit around and bitch about how new york gets all the flights and they get shafted