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  #2841  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2011, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by colemonkee View Post
Two California Plaza and Gas Company Tower are just as far east on the downtown grid, and if you look at true north, Library Tower and every tower on Bunker Hill are further east than this site. But even on the perceived grid, this site is within the eastern visual plane of highrises. It just continues the plane established by 2 Cal Plaza, Gas Company and tower on 6th and Olive further south. Or rather it would have if the original proposal survived the economic crash.

I myself am torn on the revised proposal. On one hand I'm thrilled that something is moving forward with decent density (though I think it can be higher density), and how this fills in one of the missing links between 7th Street and South Park (Grand between Olympic & 11th is the other gross offender).

On the other hand, I'm mildly disappointed to lose height and a potential skyline changer (though this can admittedly be achieved on adjacent parcels down the road). I'm far more concerned about design, though. A 7-story building will be a Type III wood frame over concrete base (2 story) building, which downtown doesn't have a very good record of. I remain cautiously optimistic, though, as Sonni Astani's previous low-rise buildings (Vero and the low rise at Concerto), are somewhat better than other buildings we seen. But one has to take into account that those buildings were planned and built at the height of the residential boom, when prices were going up, up, up; so they designed with more expensive materials. I'm hoping that design attitude prevails here, and that we get something decent, that avoids the stucco mess we've been in for far too long.
Well, since I'm not an astronaut I'll stick to the "perceived grid".

I may be confused, but what taller buildings are there east of Olive? And south of 8th isn't very tall either. This area doesn't strike me as probable for more than, say 20-30. This development seems to me to be right at the edge of what is likely to yield a true highrise and therefore not as significant a loss as lots on Flower, Fig, Hope, etc.
     
     
  #2842  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2011, 5:11 PM
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While seven stories is hardly a tower, it's density is nothing to be scoffed at either. I'm just overjoyed that something will finally get rid of one of downtown's most offensive parking lots.
Haven't you heard of the Wilshire Barrington Tower (now 7 stories)?

The word "tower" seems to be pretty hardy in LA these days.
     
     
  #2843  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 6:34 PM
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Thought i would share this nice little quote from Astani...

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/sonny...2892e5a-2778-11e1-b7c0-001871e3ce6c.html

"As the recession recedes, the challenge for a new generation of developers will be to make these buildings less ‘Irvine' looking, more ‘global city' looking," Astani, who was traveling in Asia, said in an email."


and this tidbit

Financing for Angelena will be in-house, and includes $50 million already attached to the project, Astani told Los Angeles Downtown News. The project will eschew the wood framing and stucco that is common in low-rise apartment complexes and instead will employ glass, concrete and steel.

while we would all like the original project to move ahead, at least this wont be crap. i, for one, would love to have 10 Astanis developing in downtown right now.

as an added bonus, i will be able to provide a lot of updates on this project as its right outside my window
     
     
  #2844  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Thought i would share this nice little quote from Astani...

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/sonny...2892e5a-2778-11e1-b7c0-001871e3ce6c.html

"As the recession recedes, the challenge for a new generation of developers will be to make these buildings less ‘Irvine' looking, more ‘global city' looking," Astani, who was traveling in Asia, said in an email."


and this tidbit

Financing for Angelena will be in-house, and includes $50 million already attached to the project, Astani told Los Angeles Downtown News. The project will eschew the wood framing and stucco that is common in low-rise apartment complexes and instead will employ glass, concrete and steel.

while we would all like the original project to move ahead, at least this wont be crap. i, for one, would love to have 10 Astanis developing in downtown right now.

as an added bonus, i will be able to provide a lot of updates on this project as its right outside my window

I was VERY excited when I read about this too!

I personally think this is going to be one of the most important infill projects for Downtown LA since the Financial District and South Park are currently 98% severed from each other. There is pretty much NO pedestrian connection between the two districts if you think about it.


* West side of Figueroa from 7th to 8th - FIG at 7th and 777 Tower (BIG THUMBS UP - If all blocks were like this the connection would be strong)

East side of Figueora from 7th to 8th - surface parking lot

West side of Flower from 7th to 8th - Parking structures and surface parking lot

East side of Flower from 7th to 8th - Macy's Plaza (yuck)

West side of Hope from 7th to 8th - Macy's Plaza (yuck)

East side of Hope from 7th to 8th - A Christian Science Church and that's about it, but one of the lesser offensive north/south connections

West side of Grand from 7th to 8th - Parking structure and lots

* East side of Grand from 7th to 8th - Surface parking lot (Future Angelena)

* West side of Olive from 7th to 8th - Surface parking lot (Future Angelena)



So as you can see, there is ZERO connection pretty much between the Financial District and South Park which dilutes the urban experience in this section of DTLA. If we can get Angelena type developments to infill all these deadzones, then DTLA will be incredibly better.

The three asterisks mean that those will have strong ped connections, 3 out of 9 north south pedestrian connections which is about 33% of the picture ameliorated.
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  #2845  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2011, 11:38 PM
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The walk b/w Bottega Louie and Ralphs is pretty grim. Downtown has come a long way in the past decade, but still so far left to go. (I do find it more enjoyable to celebrate how downtown has improved, rather than focus on what downtown still isn't.)

There used to not be much activity.
Then there were pockets of it.
Those pockets are getting larger.
Now, they need to get connected.

8th/Grand is a step in the right direction. In the meantime, how about getting more/any occupants into Brockman, Concerto and Roosevelt? What are the owners of those properties up to?
     
     
  #2846  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 1:15 AM
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I'm really glad the 8th and Grand building won't be wood-framed with stucco. Sounds like good infill for that dead zone there.
     
     
  #2847  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 7:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
It's been turned into one of the most stunningly beautiful condo buildings in all of Downtown L.A. They did one of the best jobs I have ever seen in renovating it back to its original 1920s state.
Wow. You're right. Well done. That's what I would have done. Good to see.
     
     
  #2848  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post
^Originally Posted by alki

Yup. That's right. I agree with you. The development will come in waves. The first wave acts as the platform for the second wave and the second for the third with each wave bigger than the last. DTLA is reaching a critical mass where residential development will become self sustaining.


Not just Downtown LA, but the LA area in general. People are realizing that suburban sprawl is unsustainable, and that will focus most future growth in existing urban areas.
Don't get me wrong........I like single family too. I think a city should offer several options.......condos, rentals, lofts, and single family detached and attached. For an example, I really like the scale of Silver Lake and Carroll Ave........but I do not have a problem with low to mid rises on Hyperion and mid rises on Sunset....up to 10 stories.

But I think DTLA should be exclusively mid to hi rise..........in the long term, that will be the only kind of construction that makes sense economically given the cost of the land.......more mid rise now to fill up some of DT's vacant lots....esp around 7th. If 7th is to become a strong retail spine, it needs more office and residential construction to its south.......still too many vacant lots in SP. That's why I like the new development announced for behind B. Louie.
     
     
  #2849  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 8:14 PM
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Regarding the Angelena, nothing makes me happier than to see, one-by-one, parking lots bite the dust. And while I, too, would have liked to see a larger density, 7-story buildings can work quite well, assuming the massing, proportions, and positioning (i.e, not ridiculous setbacks) are all done right. 7-15 stories is the sweet spot, IMO. Anything less (i.e, 3-4 story stucco contractor specials) seems underwhelming.

BTW, My gf, a Norwegian, is visiting town and yesterday we spent quite a bit of time in DTLA. She hated Broadway (which, judging from my recent trips to NYC, "outgrits" NYC, lol), but loved the pedestrian activity on Spring, as well as the new restaurants in/around the Arts District. Showing her Broadway - our flagship boulevard, in the heart our city's core - in its currently appalling condition did hurt a bit, though. And this is coming from somebody who has a pretty high threshold and tolerance for grit. That said, it made me appreciate even more the continued redevelopment efforts taking place, especially on its southern end (Two Boots, Unami Delicatessan, Figaro, that new workspace, Blackstone Lofts, etc.)

Last edited by Kingofthehill; Dec 17, 2011 at 8:25 PM.
     
     
  #2850  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2011, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Thought i would share this nice little quote from Astani...

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/sonny...2892e5a-2778-11e1-b7c0-001871e3ce6c.html

Financing for Angelena will be in-house, and includes $50 million already attached to the project, Astani told Los Angeles Downtown News. The project will eschew the wood framing and stucco that is common in low-rise apartment complexes and instead will employ glass, concrete and steel.
The more expensive construction is an indicator that land costs have risen significantly in DTLA......at least since I was there.......to justify even mid rise construction, and that rents have gone up enough to cover the additional cost. Assuming Astani is a savvy developer, then this is very positive news for DTLA.

Where are you located that you can watch the building's construction "right outside your window"?
     
     
  #2851  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2011, 3:57 AM
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Here's the link to the Urban Land Institute presentation from the recent design seminar focusing on Union Station: http://www.scribd.com/doc/76080884/Union-Station-v2 . According to this presentation, by 2035, there will be 17,000 residents and 35,000 employees within 1/2 mile of Union Station.
     
     
  #2852  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2011, 6:17 PM
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Here's the link to the Urban Land Institute presentation from the recent design seminar focusing on Union Station: http://www.scribd.com/doc/76080884/Union-Station-v2 . According to this presentation, by 2035, there will be 17,000 residents and 35,000 employees within 1/2 mile of Union Station.
A few comments (btw, thanks for making this available):

The key phrase is "pardigm shift". In brief, this area is mostly prisons, dead industrial and welfare housing. They are talking young professional. This will take some work given that the westside, Glendale, Pasadena, the South SFV, etc., are also talking about luring this group as well, and there is reason to believe that Asians will gravitate to the SGV and Ktown.

Since a pardigm shift is unlikely, wouldn't tourist oriented be better for the side around El Pueblo and Chinatown, and transient oriented (hotels, etc.) around the north and east, away from the heart of DT?

I hope that the area will boom; but every 'hood (DT, Hollywood, westside, etc.) are predicting increases in population; are there really going to be that many people moving here? Fortunately, this takes place over time so we will have some clarity as time goes by.

Of course, it goes without saying that the area around Union Station itself must be complementary to the protected architecture.
     
     
  #2853  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2011, 7:05 PM
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I hope that the area will boom; but every 'hood (DT, Hollywood, westside, etc.) are predicting increases in population; are there really going to be that many people moving here? Fortunately, this takes place over time so we will have some clarity as time goes by.
The US Census Bureau released the estimated population growth for the periond since the latest Census, from April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011 (http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb11-215.html). CA's population increased by 438,000 during this 14 month period, or 31,285 new residents each month. From July 2011 until July 2035, there are 288 months. If CA's population keeps expanding at this rate, that will be more than 9M new residents by 2035. Admittedly, the rate of population increase might slow as California's populaiton continues to expand but, on the other hand, this growth in the past year came at a time when the state's economy is poor with unemployment at 12% for much of the year. As the state's economy continues to improve, you could likely expect the rate of population growth to increase.

I can't open the Urban Land Institute presentation now but I think I remember the current population within 1/2 mile of Union Station is 5000 - 6000 residents. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect the population to increase by 10,000 people in this area over more than two decades at a time when the state's population will increase by nearly 10M. This is especially true if most of the Measure R passenger rail investments are built, since the connectivity offered by this location will be even more attractive as the state's highways become more congested.
     
     
  #2854  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2011, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kingofthehill View Post
Regarding the Angelena, nothing makes me happier than to see, one-by-one, parking lots bite the dust. And while I, too, would have liked to see a larger density, 7-story buildings can work quite well, assuming the massing, proportions, and positioning (i.e, not ridiculous setbacks) are all done right. 7-15 stories is the sweet spot, IMO. Anything less (i.e, 3-4 story stucco contractor specials) seems underwhelming.

BTW, My gf, a Norwegian, is visiting town and yesterday we spent quite a bit of time in DTLA. She hated Broadway (which, judging from my recent trips to NYC, "outgrits" NYC, lol), but loved the pedestrian activity on Spring, as well as the new restaurants in/around the Arts District. Showing her Broadway - our flagship boulevard, in the heart our city's core - in its currently appalling condition did hurt a bit, though. And this is coming from somebody who has a pretty high threshold and tolerance for grit. That said, it made me appreciate even more the continued redevelopment efforts taking place, especially on its southern end (Two Boots, Unami Delicatessan, Figaro, that new workspace, Blackstone Lofts, etc.)


Its interesting that the Spring is more gentrified that Broadway despiste being closer to Skidrow.
     
     
  #2855  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 12:34 AM
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Good news... Looks like Brigham was right! Downtown is getting an Ace Hotel!

they will renovate the entire building including the theater!

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2011/12/un...building_will_be_las_first_ace_hotel.php

These boutique hotels are exactly what we need
     
     
  #2856  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 3:25 AM
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Very good news for such an historic building. Looks like Broadway is going to be the focus for the next wave of adaptive reuse development.
     
     
  #2857  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 3:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Kingofthehill View Post
She hated Broadway (which, judging from my recent trips to NYC, "outgrits" NYC, lol), but loved the pedestrian activity on Spring, as well as the new restaurants in/around the Arts District.
your friend's reaction pretty much duplicates my own response & that of my daughter, not to mention the non local relatives with us at the time, when we drove down broadway awhile ago. I at first expected----& was hoping----the street would be full of vacant storefronts. I wanted to point out to everyone that the street had lots of potential.....that it was like a blank canvas ready to be painted on. so when I instead saw block after block of grimy swapmeets, all still in business, I was truly disappointed.

broadway is one of the few streets in all of dt that I think would look better or show promise of a brighter future if most of its bldgs, or certainly the first floor spaces of those bldgs, were vacant.

I was in the hood yesterday & the one thing that never fails to hit me is how much of DT still needs lots of TLC. I think when many of us are talking about dtla like it's a lab monkey in a science experiment, we get so much into the small details that we forget the fundamentals. iow, when I'm actually in DT, I find it impossible to get worked up about matters like parking podiums on highrise condo bldgs, or new bldgs being too short, or malls being too burban, or bldgs not being architecturally fantastic enough, or projs not being geared to transit, when there still is a lot of grime & too many gaps & deadzones throughout the hood.

as for the good: LA live was a bit lively & it was nice to see ppl out around the skating rink. there is a restaurant on the north side, on olympic, that even though it can't been seen from the central court, seems to always have the most customers, at least when I'm there. TG that LA live no longer is the huge parking lot of not too many yrs ago.

Lots of the apts in that greenish tint tower with the fugly parking base next to Ralphs appeared to be lit up, so it looks like its mostly occupied. I just realize I failed to see what the concerto tower was like at night, although the shorter bldg that sits along flower st had many of its windows lit up, so that helps give the hood a feeling of being lived in.

I noticed a new lighting effect added to the fountains of the water & power bldg, presumably for the holidays....the water was changing in colors, including red & green.

farther east, Pershing Sq looked nicely decorated with lights for the holidays. Congrats to the parks & rec dept, or whatever other city dept, for making that happen. by contrast, the fenced off area around city hall looked sad, but the fact the fugly parking lot that once was west of city hall is now being turned into a park helps make up for things.

as for the clark hotel on hill st, if I were a casual visitor passing by without any info on that old bldg, I'd never think it was being prepped for a makeover & reopening. The ground floor area of the bldg still looks abandoned, & I can't figure out why the owners are taking so long to fix up that most visible part of their bldg.

many sections of dt seemed a bit too quiet for a weekday evening. That's the one thing that has also stood out to me when visiting the hood during a weekend. But I assumed there'd be a greater sense of ppl out & about during a weekday. So wkday or weekend, I rarely come away from dtla without a feeling that lots & lots more new housing has to be added to the hood asap.

all in all, I think dt is better today than it was many yrs ago, & perhaps is better today in certain ways than it was over 70 yrs ago.
     
     
  #2858  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 3:49 AM
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Very good news for such an historic building. Looks like Broadway is going to be the focus for the next wave of adaptive reuse development.
the southern end of broadway around where the old UA theater bldg is located does show the greater promise to me. That's cuz it has fewer swapmeets, or more bldgs where the ground floor spaces are vacant.

however, there is a totally vacant bldg on broadway around 4th st, referring to the bldg that caught on fire several yrs ago. there's a walkway barricade around it, which gives one the hope that demolition will begin shortly. But so far, no such luck. the corner of that intersection is one of the few areas in all of dt where I actually wish there was a parking lot instead of a hollowed out & mostly burned down bldg. that's an example of just how many layers of still has to be dealt with in the hood.
     
     
  #2859  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 8:48 AM
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your friend's reaction pretty much duplicates my own response & that of my daughter, not to mention the non local relatives with us at the time, when we drove down broadway awhile ago. I at first expected----& was hoping----the street would be full of vacant storefronts. I wanted to point out to everyone that the street had lots of potential.....that it was like a blank canvas ready to be painted on. so when I instead saw block after block of grimy swapmeets, all still in business, I was truly disappointed.

broadway is one of the few streets in all of dt that I think would look better or show promise of a brighter future if most of its bldgs, or certainly the first floor spaces of those bldgs, were vacant.

I was in the hood yesterday & the one thing that never fails to hit me is how much of DT still needs lots of TLC. I think when many of us are talking about dtla like it's a lab monkey in a science experiment, we get so much into the small details that we forget the fundamentals. iow, when I'm actually in DT, I find it impossible to get worked up about matters like parking podiums on highrise condo bldgs, or new bldgs being too short, or malls being too burban, or bldgs not being architecturally fantastic enough, or projs not being geared to transit, when there still is a lot of grime & too many gaps & deadzones throughout the hood.

as for the good: LA live was a bit lively & it was nice to see ppl out around the skating rink. there is a restaurant on the north side, on olympic, that even though it can't been seen from the central court, seems to always have the most customers, at least when I'm there. TG that LA live no longer is the huge parking lot of not too many yrs ago.

Lots of the apts in that greenish tint tower with the fugly parking base next to Ralphs appeared to be lit up, so it looks like its mostly occupied. I just realize I failed to see what the concerto tower was like at night, although the shorter bldg that sits along flower st had many of its windows lit up, so that helps give the hood a feeling of being lived in.

I noticed a new lighting effect added to the fountains of the water & power bldg, presumably for the holidays....the water was changing in colors, including red & green.

farther east, Pershing Sq looked nicely decorated with lights for the holidays. Congrats to the parks & rec dept, or whatever other city dept, for making that happen. by contrast, the fenced off area around city hall looked sad, but the fact the fugly parking lot that once was west of city hall is now being turned into a park helps make up for things.

as for the clark hotel on hill st, if I were a casual visitor passing by without any info on that old bldg, I'd never think it was being prepped for a makeover & reopening. The ground floor area of the bldg still looks abandoned, & I can't figure out why the owners are taking so long to fix up that most visible part of their bldg.

many sections of dt seemed a bit too quiet for a weekday evening. That's the one thing that has also stood out to me when visiting the hood during a weekend. But I assumed there'd be a greater sense of ppl out & about during a weekday. So wkday or weekend, I rarely come away from dtla without a feeling that lots & lots more new housing has to be added to the hood asap.

all in all, I think dt is better today than it was many yrs ago, & perhaps is better today in certain ways than it was over 70 yrs ago.
the watermarke (the green building next to Ralphs) has been full for a while, and you wouldnt believe the rents there. absolutely nuts.
     
     
  #2860  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2011, 6:29 PM
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pesto:


The US Census Bureau released the estimated population growth for the periond since the latest Census, from April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011 (http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb11-215.html). CA's population increased by 438,000 during this 14 month period, or 31,285 new residents each month. From July 2011 until July 2035, there are 288 months. If CA's population keeps expanding at this rate, that will be more than 9M new residents by 2035. Admittedly, the rate of population increase might slow as California's populaiton continues to expand but, on the other hand, this growth in the past year came at a time when the state's economy is poor with unemployment at 12% for much of the year. As the state's economy continues to improve, you could likely expect the rate of population growth to increase.

I can't open the Urban Land Institute presentation now but I think I remember the current population within 1/2 mile of Union Station is 5000 - 6000 residents. I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect the population to increase by 10,000 people in this area over more than two decades at a time when the state's population will increase by nearly 10M. This is especially true if most of the Measure R passenger rail investments are built, since the connectivity offered by this location will be even more attractive as the state's highways become more congested.
Your number sounds about right and I have no doubt that Union Station is going to boom in traffic. But still, is this where "young professionals" are going to go? I find it hard to believe that the 6600 inmates in the various lock-ups will all be disappearing along with enough public housing to make this a real alternative to Ktown, the Westside or DT on the other side of City Hall.

As I said, I think tourist or entertainment oriented or somewhat more downmarket makes more sense.
     
     
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