LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Muji]

While seven stories is hardly a tower, it's density is nothing to be scoffed at either. I'm just overjoyed that something will finally get rid of one of downtown's most offensive parking lots.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Muji

While seven stories is hardly a tower, it's density is nothing to be scoffed at either. I'm just overjoyed that something will finally get rid of one of downtown's most offensive parking lots.

I agree, i'm happy that at least something will be built... and soon, it sounds like, based on Illithid's link.

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I agree, i'm happy that at least something will be built... and soon, it sounds like, based on Illithid's link.

I spy a Fresh & Easy Express going into the bottom of it. Room for a small sized grocery store.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Muji

I'm just overjoyed that something will finally get rid of one of downtown's most offensive parking lots.

I'll second that! i've gone to dinner at bottega louie, been happy with the vibe & hustle bustle of that restaurant, only to finish the evening by then walking out the door on grand......



maps.google.com

& then running into this all over again....


maps.google.com

this is what I've seen on too many occasions when pulling up towards bottega from its south side, or been meandering through that part of dt....


maps.google.com

^

these are the only images from the report that the devlpr will be meeting the city about this wk. I'm guessing more info will be released in the near future, at least if the stated groundbreaking of early 2012 isn't alot of wishful thinking by the devlpr....


crala.org


crala.org

if this proj does break ground in the next 6 months, that means it can be added to the list along with the broad museum, an apt bldg going up across from the 1100 wilshire bldg, the low income housing proj on main street next to the regent theater, & hopefully early work beginning on the grand wilshire proj & a new apt bldg across from the convention ctr.

not exactly like the crane city of a few yrs ago, but a promising beginning after a long lull. For that, I give

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

Remember Illithid, as more and more parking lots become low-rise sprawl,

I'd hardly call this sprawl. The more I think about this, the happier I am with it. Seven stories is higher then most things in Paris, or Madrid. It's also 700 units, which is crazy dense. Really, we are talking more European scale here, which is not bad at all. Of course, it would be nicer to see it taller, but as long as it is good architecture I am happy.

[citywatch]

until more details & illustrations are shown to the public, this is the most anyone can rely on..... The proj certainly isn't as ambitious as it once was , but in today's economy I'm just happy the devlpr hasn't given up, cancelled all his plans, & sold the site to someone who will either keep it as a parking lot or build a mcdonalds or walgreens on it...

The Developer proposes to develop the revised Project in two phases as follows:

Phase I. Phase I will be located on the west side of the Site fronting Grand Avenue and a portion of Eighth Street. The 7 story building will contain 240 residential units on 208,370 square feet of floor area, and 16,085 square feet of neighborhood commercial retail uses, including approximately 2,425 square feet of restaurant space.

Approximately, 26,180 square feet of open space will be provided partially within private balconies and an elevated courtyard.

One and one half levels of parking will be provided with the first level located at grade and one subterranean level below. Vehicular access for the subterranean level is proposed to be exclusively located at the northern portion of the Site at Grand Avenue, while vehicular ingress and egress for commercial and guest parking is proposed off of Eighth and Olive Streets.

Phase II will occupy the remaining portion of the Site (on the east), and will front Olive Street and a portion of Eighth Street. The proposed building will contain 460 residential units on 359,260 square feet of floor area, and 13,165 square feet of neighborhood commercial retail uses.

Approximately 49,955 square feet of open space will be located within two elevated central courtyards, private balconies, fitness room and within the rear yard. Three levels of parking will be provided with the first level located at grade and one and one half subterranean levels below. Vehicular access will be the same as the Phase I.

The Developer’s goal is to bring a small neighborhood-serving grocery market to the commercial space in Phase I.

The Developer proposes to provide approximately 77,000 square feet of open space. Once complete, this open space will consist of two central courtyards (serving Phases I and II) with landscaped open/gathering spaces and private balconies. The central courtyard of Phase I will be mostly open and will feature a pool located at the northern portion of the Site.

Phase II will extend the courtyard and feature an additional pool as well as a spa and a large landscaped area. These amenities will be available to all Project residents. An additional landscaped area will be provided within the rear yard of Phase II and serve as additional open space. Further, the proposed Project will have 254 trees. A fitness room/gym of 7,300 square feet is also envisioned.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by citywatch

]I'm just happy the devlpr hasn't given up, cancelled all his plans, & sold the site to someone who will either keep it as a parking lot or build a mcdonalds or walgreens on it...

You can't do that downtown. A project must be at least three stories high, which would be a very large McDonalds indeed.

Also, seven stories is just as high as the old department store building across the street, so it is keeping in scale with the neighborhood. I wouldn't worry too much about it not being a high rise. I keep thinking of San Diego, Portland, Vancouver, and Seattle, all of which have a mix of low rise, mid rise, and high rise in their downtowns, and none of which suffer for it. The density is just as much as the previous proposal, which is good, for that means 700+ new people walking the streets of downtown and contributing to its growth. Lastly, this drives up the rate for apartments, making it more and more likley that more then the Grand Ave. tower will be built in the future. And lastly, don't forget, the Grand Ave Tower (19 stories) is breaking ground next year. To me, with all of these new units being built, we are seeing the beginnings of a boom on a far greater scale then the last one. You have to realize, the last boom wasn't very large. Downtown never really had its chance. Really, it was more like healthy growth, with a few mid-rises and one tall tower. The thing was, before the 'boom', there was no demand for residential downtown. The 'boom' created demand. What we saw was a baseless 'boom'. Now, there is demand for downtown, and because of that, I expect the next burst of building to be on a much larger scale. In fact, at the current rate, I expect at least two 200 foot tall towers under construction by the end of 2013, not to mention the Wilshire Grand tower, and what I am sure will be countless low rises in the arts district, South Park, and maybe even the Historic Core (!?!). Patience is key, my friends. Until then, be content with all the great new restaurants, bike paths, parks, museums, and stores opening up downtown. Just because downtown isn't building supertalls does not mean it isn't progressing at an exponential rate.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I'd hardly call this sprawl. The more I think about this, the happier I am with it. Seven stories is higher then most things in Paris, or Madrid. It's also 700 units, which is crazy dense. Really, we are talking more European scale here, which is not bad at all. Of course, it would be nicer to see it taller, but as long as it is good architecture I am happy.

yea i was feeling the same way also... like i was really excited about the height of this project.. then got disappointed too =[ but yea know it is a dense project and it's a goodlookin one too... and realize that 7 stories is kinda tall... i mean walkin in dtsd around 5-6 story apt and condo buildings still feel pretty urban... so this 7 stories shouldnt be too bad... but i agree it would have been nice to see it as it was originally proposed.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Patience is key, my friends.

it's funny how the original plans for the astani proj made me both more patient & also more impatient. Impatient cuz it seemed so dramatic that I wanted it to break ground asap. but also patient that when I first heard about the downsized plans today, I was disappointed enough that I kind of wanted the proj to be put on hold again til the economy allows a bigger scaled proj again.

so one reason I try to post streetview pics of current conditions in the hood is they force me to realize just how things are right now. iow, if I forget that, I become lulled into thinking things aren't too disappointing. That it's ok to wait a long time for some proj, as long as it's super dramatic, big, flashy & exciting. But the deadzones & gaps have been hanging around for too long, & so enough is enough. time to get a move on.

I was so much into the original vision of the proj cuz of this pic....


8thandgrand.com

this layout of the previous plan looked exciting not just cuz of the greater height & density of the bldgs, but cuz of the public crossing that would cut through the block between 7th & 8th sts......


8thandgrand.com

^ but I also was worried that such a space would be hard to activate, & that not enough ppl would stroll on it during a typical day, so any stores along that walkway would suffer from lack of business. I also now realize that it would not be good if a new public walkway competes with 7th st just a few hundred ft to the north. iow, it's 7th st that needs all the focus & attention, & sites sitting south of bldgs fronting 7th st should play only a backup role, or house ppl who will help populate the sidewalks of 7th st.

in certain ways the downsized proj not only is more realistic....if only cuz it can be built before everyone is old & gray....but cuz it's better for the hood in the long run.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

You can't do that downtown. A project must be at least three stories high, which would be a very large McDonalds indeed.

Also, seven stories is just as high as the old department store building across the street, so it is keeping in scale with the neighborhood. I wouldn't worry too much about it not being a high rise. I keep thinking of San Diego, Portland, Vancouver, and Seattle, all of which have a mix of low rise, mid rise, and high rise in their downtowns, and none of which suffer for it. The density is just as much as the previous proposal, which is good, for that means 700+ new people walking the streets of downtown and contributing to its growth. Lastly, this drives up the rate for apartments, making it more and more likley that more then the Grand Ave. tower will be built in the future. And lastly, don't forget, the Grand Ave Tower (19 stories) is breaking ground next year. To me, with all of these new units being built, we are seeing the beginnings of a boom on a far greater scale then the last one. You have to realize, the last boom wasn't very large. Downtown never really had its chance. Really, it was more like healthy growth, with a few mid-rises and one tall tower. The thing was, before the 'boom', there was no demand for residential downtown. The 'boom' created demand. What we saw was a baseless 'boom'. Now, there is demand for downtown, and because of that, I expect the next burst of building to be on a much larger scale. In fact, at the current rate, I expect at least two 200 foot tall towers under construction by the end of 2013, not to mention the Wilshire Grand tower, and what I am sure will be countless low rises in the arts district, South Park, and maybe even the Historic Core (!?!). Patience is key, my friends. Until then, be content with all the great new restaurants, bike paths, parks, museums, and stores opening up downtown. Just because downtown isn't building supertalls does not mean it isn't progressing at an exponential rate.

Yup. That's right. I agree with you. The development will come in waves. The first wave acts as the platform for the second wave and the second for the third with each wave bigger than the last. DTLA is reaching a critical mass where residential development will become self sustaining.

And at this point I would not be too worried about how many towers get built.......and yes, I know that's the point of this forum.....but when it comes to towers and DTLA, I suggest you be careful what you wish for. The point I was trying to make with LA Dreamin' in a prior post was that while towers are hot to look at, they can suck the life out of a market. DTLA built some interesting office towers in the 1980s. And look at the results. When was the last office tower built in DTLA......early 90s? So much square footage was built in the 80s, those office towers ended up getting an advance on the square footage that would be absorbed by DT 2 decades into the future. Parking lots remained empty. DT development ground to a halt all through the 90s. When fantasizing about skyscraper development, its good to remember the economics behind them.

It wasn't until residential development started up around 2000 did DTLA start to look interesting again. However, residential unit absorption is not a bottomless pit. You build 4 residential hi rises with 500 units each and you might suck up all the demand for 10 years. I'd rather build several low rises and fill up some of those vacant lots......let the market mature, grow more interesting and exciting, more pedestrian, and start to draw into it more and more people from the rest of the metro area. Eventually there will come a time when hi rise residential will enhance the market instead of sucking it dry.

[alki]

One of the buildings I would like to rehab in my head was the El Dorado Hotel on Spring. Anyone know what's happening with that building?

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by alki

One of the buildings I would like to rehab in my head was the El Dorado Hotel on Spring. Anyone know what's happening with that building?

It's been turned into one of the most stunningly beautiful condo buildings in all of Downtown L.A. They did one of the best jobs I have ever seen in renovating it back to its original 1920s state.

[pesto]

No doubt that the size of the project is a plus and that the area it fills is one of the most troublesome gaps in DT. Plus it is further east than any true high-rise so it's not filling in space that was likely to ever be very tall.

If this were in Ktown or Holywood it would be a clear winner. In DT it's what we can get at the moment, but it isn't what we should hope for.

But the real point is that DT seems set to become low-rise rental rather than high-rise condo. This will focus retail investment toward food, markets and services rather than mid to high range department or specialty stores.

[RST500]

How much space such as parking lots are available in that area for future highrises?

[colemonkee]

Originally Posted by pesto

Plus it is further east than any true high-rise so it's not filling in space that was likely to ever be very tall.

Two California Plaza and Gas Company Tower are just as far east on the downtown grid, and if you look at true north, Library Tower and every tower on Bunker Hill are further east than this site. But even on the perceived grid, this site is within the eastern visual plane of highrises. It just continues the plane established by 2 Cal Plaza, Gas Company and tower on 6th and Olive further south. Or rather it would have if the original proposal survived the economic crash.

I myself am torn on the revised proposal. On one hand I'm thrilled that something is moving forward with decent density (though I think it can be higher density), and how this fills in one of the missing links between 7th Street and South Park (Grand between Olympic & 11th is the other gross offender).

On the other hand, I'm mildly disappointed to lose height and a potential skyline changer (though this can admittedly be achieved on adjacent parcels down the road). I'm far more concerned about design, though. A 7-story building will be a Type III wood frame over concrete base (2 story) building, which downtown doesn't have a very good record of. I remain cautiously optimistic, though, as Sonni Astani's previous low-rise buildings (Vero and the low rise at Concerto), are somewhat better than other buildings we seen. But one has to take into account that those buildings were planned and built at the height of the residential boom, when prices were going up, up, up; so they designed with more expensive materials. I'm hoping that design attitude prevails here, and that we get something decent, that avoids the stucco mess we've been in for far too long.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I'd hardly call this sprawl. The more I think about this, the happier I am with it. Seven stories is higher then most things in Paris, or Madrid. It's also 700 units, which is crazy dense. Really, we are talking more European scale here, which is not bad at all. Of course, it would be nicer to see it taller, but as long as it is good architecture I am happy.

Agreed.

Density > Height.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

Agreed.

Density > Height.

Thirded. DC is the prototypical example. It is one of the more dense, urban, livable cities in the nation, with nary a building over 12 stories. I'll take a dense grid of 7 story buildings any day over a disjointed patchwork of skyscrapers and parking lots.

[JDRCRASH]

^ But LA isn't DC, just like it isn't New York.

Like I said, much of the reason why DC, London, and Paris, are acceptable as low-rise cities is because of their beautiful and historic architecture.

And Downtown Portland (and the city in general) is a VERY small area, geographically constrained by the Willamette and Forest Park, and already has a pretty good streetcar system. Those factors all are important factors into why Downtown Portland is a more urban-friendly area.

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

The density is just as much as the previous proposal, which is good, for that means 700+ new people walking the streets of downtown and contributing to its growth.

Not necessarily. There were 870 residential units in the previous proposal, and probably a WHOLE lot more retail and office space.

To me, with all of these new units being built, we are seeing the beginnings of a boom on a far greater scale then the last one. You have to realize, the last boom wasn't very large. Downtown never really had its chance. Really, it was more like healthy growth, with a few mid-rises and one tall tower. The thing was, before the 'boom', there was no demand for residential downtown. The 'boom' created demand. What we saw was a baseless 'boom'.

Indeed. Downtown LA came late to the game. Really late, in fact. More like the tail end of the real estate boom (05 and 06).

Originally Posted by citywatch

these are the only images from the report that the devlpr will be meeting the city about this wk. I'm guessing more info will be released in the near future, at least if the stated groundbreaking of early 2012 isn't alot of wishful thinking by the devlpr....

Well, now that they've GREATLY scaled it back, it's actually pretty likely it'll break ground when they said it would. And I think that's the whole point in the developers doing so.

I guess that's why I am pretty excited to something finally getting built on this eyesore of a parking lot getting. There is an upside to smaller buildings.

Originally Posted by alki

Yup. That's right. I agree with you. The development will come in waves. The first wave acts as the platform for the second wave and the second for the third with each wave bigger than the last. DTLA is reaching a critical mass where residential development will become self sustaining.

Not just Downtown LA, but the LA area in general. People are realizing that suburban sprawl is unsustainable, and that will focus most future growth in existing urban areas.

[DJM19]

Much of japan has pretty forgettable 7 story buildings, but together they form a nice urban scene that should be desirable in most cities.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

Originally Posted by DJM19

Much of japan has pretty forgettable 7 story buildings, but together they form a nice urban scene that should be desirable in most cities.

I think a lot of Tokyo's buildings are manhattanized tho, built wall to wall, or just without plazas in every building... so that all sides of the buildings are right off the sidewalks.. which kinda gives off a more urban city feel... that will never happen in LA.. we include to many public space in all our development that it sucks life out of the sidewalks.