Halifax Stadium Discussion - Page 212

JET · #**4221** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Sure, checked ExploreHRM, the land is owned by DND, but the school and fields are operated by HRSB, and about 430 kids go to that school.

I suspect that at a minimum there are contractual obligations between DND, the Province and HRSB around that part of the Shannon site. If we want to tear down that school, and/or leave it with no playing field, then you need to add the cost of a new school and playing field somewhere near by, that is 10-14 million plus land if you don't own it already.

I'm just saying, realistically I don't see that as a easy viable site.

I'm not advocating this, but it would not be difficult to relocate those students to other underutilized Dartmouth Schools, even though it is French immersion. If there is a plan for the land , it could happen. I actually prefer the Dartmouth Crossing site.

Waye Mason · #**4222** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 5:28 PM**

It could happen, but not in less than a school year. Closures are governed by the Education Act. Realistically, that part of that site is off the table for this FIFA proposal.

JET · #**4223** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 6:41 PM**

true, but it is the 2015 FIFA, and the school is on a corner of the property.
Again, I don't it's a good spot for the statdium.

MaritimeCFLFan · #**4224** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 7:42 PM**

One of my fears with Shannon Park has been the unknown issues that would need to be resolved and how long it will take to do so if even possible.

DC is still my 1'st choice. Perhaps putting a stadium at DC seems like sprawl now but lets try to look ahead 20 years and how much more the HRM will grow. Perhaps by then someone will look back and say that wasn't such a bad idea afterall.

19200 · #**4225** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 7:42 PM**

Shannon Park is the most logical location for a Stadium of any great size.

Access by water, road, rail.....

Pete Crawford · #**4226** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 8:41 PM**

My little cousin used to go to Shannon Park as part of the French Immersion stream and the school really is in a deplorable condition and I believe only about half of it is actually used. I know the HRSB has some embarrassing schools but this one should be high on their replacement list.

The Shannon Park location would be much more visible to the general public and a pretty desperately needed investment for the Windmill Road area, HRM should try to make this work.

Phalanx · #**4227** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 9:04 PM**

A stadium in Shannon Park would be great... as part of a full site redevelopment. Just plunking it down in the current context, even cleared of current structures, is no better than DC. Arguably worse because it's even more isolated in some ways. Public transit links aren't much better (again, arguably not at all), and it's only a few minutes short of DC by car if you're traveling from Halifax. If a stadium is built as part of a overall plan, then it would be great... High density residential and retail, make full use of the site, give a reason to improve public transit to the area, maybe add a very terminal...

Until that happens, I'm going to stick with DC as a preferred site.

Keith P. · #**4228** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 11:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19200

Shannon Park is the most logical location for a Stadium of any great size.

Access by water, road, rail.....

Except that there is no water or rail transit service available. And the road access is by one 2-lane road that has a rail level crossing across it.

It is a lousy site until everything is totally rebuilt.

ZET · #**4229** Posted **Dec 8, 2011, 11:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Except that there is no water or rail transit service available. And the road access is by one 2-lane road that has a rail level crossing across it.

It is a lousy site until everything is totally rebuilt.

actually it's two roads in from Windmill, but it's a moot point since one train often blocks both routes

fenwick16 · #**4230** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 12:21 AM**

On the positive side, there are numerous buses going to the Dartmouth MacDonald Bridge terminal from points within Metro Halifax. There could be a quick shuttle from the Bridge terminal, or people could even get some exercise and walk the 3 km to a Shannon Park stadium (the older generation might not want to walk that distance, but the younger generation could probably do that walk within 30 minutes at a brisk walk). If over time the Shannon Park site is cleared then it could have a large parking lot and a ferry to downtown Halifax. It could serve as a park and ride location.

(source: Metro Transit route map - http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/Schedules/documents/MapNov2011_print.pdf )

FuzzyWuz · #**4231** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 1:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

....So, a football stadium at SMU as a cheaper interim solution while the case is made for CFL is not out of the question, is it...

Putting it at SMU would take the 'interim' out of the picture. You'd put all your eggs in that basket and have to be happy with it. I hate that idea.

resetcbu1 · #**4232** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 2:28 AM**

I went to school at Shannon Park in the mid 80's, it was a dilapidated hole then and an even bigger mould filled shit hole now, TEAR IT DOWN... It is not a healthy enviroment, health or mentaly and would certainly be better off replced by new development . The whole area is an eyesore and a stadium would be the first step to revitalizing a sad state of affairs.

I personally think that this is the only spot off the peninsula thst would work as a site for a stadium , as much as I feel that this could realy turn shannon into a whole new vibrant comunity, I still feel as though the best choice is the peninsula but FAT CHANCE.......

What about the other side of the bridge in wallace heights ot near there?

Empire · #**4233** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 3:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

I went to school at Shannon Park in the mid 80's, it was a dilapidated hole then and an even bigger mould filled shit hole now, TEAR IT DOWN... It is not a healthy enviroment, health or mentaly and would certainly be better off replced by new development . The whole area is an eyesore and a stadium would be the first step to revitalizing a sad state of affairs.

I personally think that this is the only spot off the peninsula thst would work as a site for a stadium , as much as I feel that this could realy turn shannon into a whole new vibrant comunity, I still feel as though the best choice is the peninsula but FAT CHANCE.......

What about the other side of the bridge in wallace heights ot near there?

Who owns the swamp land on the north side of the 111. Looks like an ideal location for a stadium? The parcel has no assessment listing so it must be DND. Maybe it can be expropriated?

Swamp land 1:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=...fax+County,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=16

Swamp land 2:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=...V6pv14uFN-uj4Nv9Nr4Mg&cbp=12,231.22,,0,0

fenwick16 · #**4234** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 3:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kph06

DND owns the school and soccer field land, as well as the swampy area north fo the bridge Empire asked about.

Empire: According to kph06's post, it is owned by DND.

The DND area around Wallace Heights is cut off from the Dartmouth MacDonald Bridge terminal by the highway. Personally, I think the actual Shannon Park would be better.

resetcbu1 · #**4235** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 4:30 AM**

If they could tear down some of those old warehouses on and around dartmouth cove that would be a great spot I think , how does anyone else feel?

Great addition with Kings Wharf and DT dartmouth would flourish .....

resetcbu1 · #**4236** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 4:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empire

Who owns the swamp land on the north side of the 111. Looks like an ideal location for a stadium? The parcel has no assessment listing so it must be DND. Maybe it can be expropriated?

Swamp land 1:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=...fax+County,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=16

Swamp land 2:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=...V6pv14uFN-uj4Nv9Nr4Mg&cbp=12,231.22,,0,0

It would certainly be better than DC

Empire · #**4237** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

It would certainly be better than DC

If Shannon Park is unavailable in a short time frame this site may fill the void.

RyeJay · #**4238** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 5:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

If they could tear down some of those old warehouses on and around dartmouth cove that would be a great spot I think , how does anyone else feel?

Great addition with Kings Wharf and DT dartmouth would flourish .....

The idea of a downtown Dartmouth stadium is an urban dream come true! And to really think of it, your idea is the only one involving the use of the downtown (where infrastructure and services already exist) and of the waterfront, which is completely out of the question on the peninsula.

With the MacDonald Bridge and Metro Ferry service, downtown Dartmouth is essentially part of downtown Halifax. And to throw even more pros onto this pile, an incredible number of university students, of which attend class on the peninsula, reside in Darmouth--either because they live with their parents, having perhaps been raised locally, or because Dartmouth is a helluva lot cheaper than many places on the peninsula...or even Mainland Halifax for that matter.

Regardless I still think Shannon Park stands a stronger chance based on the duration of its consideration throughout this whole mess. But given the likelihood of this FIFA proposal dying, perhaps your idea could see some light.

RyeJay · #**4239** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 5:23 AM**

...or should I say, downtown Halifax is part of downtown Dartmouth

A stadium would make this area of Dartmouth the new hot spot.

planarchy · #**4240** Posted **Dec 9, 2011, 11:39 AM**

DCL has little interest is selling the Commodore site to the city...

Halifax looking at wrong site for stadium, Dartmouth Crossing owners say
December 8, 2011 - 6:55pm / Chronicle Herald

The owners of Dartmouth Crossing Ltd. want a new stadium built at a major intersection near the Empire Theatres complex and not at the Commodore Drive site favoured by the project’s advisory committee.

“We did not talk to the consultants about the site favoured by the advisory committee,” Ann-Louise McKinnon, general manager at Dartmouth Crossing, said Thursday.

McKinnon said it is the so-called quarry site, north of Wright Avenue and near the theatre complex and restaurant district, and not the Commodore Drive site favoured by the committee, that Dartmouth Crossing Ltd. prefers for a proposed new stadium.

“The quarry site is at a superior location, at a major intersection within Dartmouth Crossing and immediately adjacent to the Highway 118 intersection,” said McKinnon.

“It is fully serviced with sewer, water and vehicle access. It is the best location for handling large volumes of traffic for stadium events and more compatible with existing development than is the case with the Commodore Drive site.”

If there is a perceived problem with the quarry site, it is that it is quarry land that would require clearing if a stadium is constructed.

“Removing some rock is not a huge problem,” McKinnon said. “Much of Dartmouth Crossing was quarry land before it was developed.”

She said she did not want to speculate on the variance in values of the quarry site compared with the Commodore Drive location, which is level and clear and ready for development.

She said it would be up to officials with North American Development Group, the developers of Dartmouth Crossing, to determine any eventual selling price of either of the properties.

Glenn Munro, North American Development Group’s managing partner for Eastern Canada, said Thursday the group is working on some preliminary plans for commercial and retail development at the Commodore Drive site, and for that reason, it pitched the quarry location for a stadium to the consultants.

Provincial property records indicate the quarry site has an assessed value for tax purposes of about $4-million, about double the value of the assessed value of the Commodore Drive site, but Munro said it is too early to speculate on how much land would be required for a stadium if it is built or what the land would cost.

“This was a consultative process only and not a full-blown negotiation on a price.”

Halifax Regional Municipality was urged to proceed with a bid for a stadium, and to break ground at the Commodore site, located at the intersection of Commodore Drive and John Savage Avenue, in a report from the project’s advisory committee.

That recommendation was based on information provided in the $275,000 assessment of stadium options prepared for the city by Fowler, Bauld & Mitchell Ltd.

The Commodore site received top marks but was not put forward as a potential site for a stadium by the landowners, according to a Dec. 6 report presented by staff to regional council.

“The rating of that site reflects its desirable qualities and does not reflect any conversation (about the) desire of the landowner to participate,” said the report, available on the municipality’s website.

“It was considered as a result of its proximity to the existing municipal artificial turf facilities in that area.”

The municipality owns a big sports field and an adjacent Commodore Drive property.

A municipal analysis suggested capital costs of a stadium will begin at $55 million and will be affected by size and seating variations and location.

Four sites made it to the shortlist: Commodore Drive was first; Shannon Park second; Dartmouth Crossing quarry site third; and a Burnside Park location fourth.