LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by citywatch

I would classify target as a dept store if instead of a grocery store type of checkout area near the front doors, there were cashiers stationed throughout each dept of the store. but that's just my definition & ymmv.

I definitely would favor a forever 21 on broadway instead of a walmart. but whatever moves into the former space of the old may co bldg----assuming that's more than rumor----I just hope it doesn't encourage the existing base of slumlords, their codependent swapmeet tenants, & the customers who keep giving enough $$ to the swapmeets & slumlords to make it worthwhile for everyone.

You know, what, I like this definition.

A department store has checkout areas in every department.

Stores like walmart, and target, do not.

I believe the new giant Forever 21s have various checkouts, but honestly, I dont remember.

[pesto]

So if Walmart puts in local checkout stands it becomes a department store? I would think you would want to focus on the types of goods provided and customers served rather than how they chose to collect payment.

[dachacon]

To add fuel to the department store fire: No one has discussed the possibility of Kohl's opening on Broadway.
Its a mid-priced store that caters to mid to low income shoppers, a perfect fit between a Macy's and JCPenny shopper, and as far as I know there isn't a location anywhere near downtown.

[LA/OCman]

Originally Posted by alki

Dang. I just read your post........we think a lot alike.

BTW isn't that new upper story restaurant/club near the Clark? I don't know what condition Hill Street is in these days but I always like that street.

Yes, Perch is on the rooftop of an old historic office bldg at 5th and Hill. I took my friend there who grew up in Germany and she was blown away by the place. The Hotel Clark I believe is just north of Perch on Hill Street between 4th and 5th.

I bought lofts at both the Rowan and Eastern Columbia...and I am not sure which area I am more excited about. Around 9th and Broadway development is really just starting to increase. The vibrancy around 5th and Spring is what is amazing...and especially 6th which has Pussy and Pooch, Coles/The Varnish, the Association Bar, Las Perlas, Mignon Wine Bar, a new sweet shop, Babycakes and now Artisan. The big dead zone is Spring around the Ronald Reagan office bldg. It is deadsville at night...until you get to 2nd where the Edison, Pitfire Pizza, Vibiana Place are located.

[Illithid Dude]

I went downtown today to test out my new 5D MKII. I took some pictures, not trying to be artistic or anything, but just to get a feel for the camera. Here they are:



Looks like this building on Main St. just got a new ground floor. Naturally, I took a picture. It looks really good, with a nice use of high quality materials, like glass and brick.



Looks like they are almost done with construction on the New Genesis Apartments on Main. Surprisingly, this looks like another no-stucco building. Those white panels are some other material.



A close up of the panels.



I went to Baco Mercat for lunch, which just opened up in the Old Bank District.



They make their own Soda there. I thought it very good, if a little sweet. I also had a cherry soda made with vinegar, which was great, though I forgot to take a picture.



Started with this Pickle Salad. I thought it way too salty, to a point where I could barely eat it. No like.



This is the Baco. Like the salad, it was salty, but not to a point where I was unable to eat it. Anyways, the greenery and bread managed to counteract the salt to a point where the flavors where actually able to stand out on their own. The best part of this was defiantly the cubes of Pork Belly, which added a very rich, meaty aspect to the plate. I wish they would stop falling out of the Baco though....



Lastly, I had the Bazcole, which was by far my favorite thing. It was pretty much a Baco in Ramen form, with the same arugula, mushrooms, onions, and pork belly that the Baco had. It was delicious, with a touch of spiciness that really brought the dish to the next level.

Anyways, after lunch, I went a bought a sweater at the new mensware store, Clade.



And wrapped my downtown trip up by checking out our favorite reclad on 7th.


Damn tree...



Looks like a womens shoe store has moved in...



This is my favorite part, where the lone residential unite resides. I'd love to see floor planes for it, so if anyone wants to work some magic...

And that's my trip.

[OneMetropolis]

What up with this? It looks like Los Angeles lost about 100,000 in populace, says the 2010 census population list. How do you guys feel about this?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis

What up with this? It looks like Los Angeles lost about 100,000 in populace, says the 2010 census population list. How do you guys feel about this?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

You're not reading it correctly.

2000 Census: 3,694,820

2010 Census: 3,792,621

I assume you were looking at the 2005 estimate.

Granted, it was in the news when the 2010 census figures finally came out that LA didn't gain as many people as was originally thought, and that this is the slowest growth that LA has had in many decades. It's a fact that LA has always gained more people with every census since 1850, when it became an American city. LA has yet to officially lose population with an official census.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

instead of bottega's marble shininess, artisan house is more rustic & warm, with it wood plank floors. I'm sure its acoustics will be easier on the ears than BL, which can be deafening at times...or almost all the time.

AH looks like it is undertaking a more ambitious mini grocery store format, while I notice BL has reduced a bit of the same. I recall it having more food products on display in the beginning. of course, there's more competition from the nearby ralphs, so that may have affected BL's sales, while AH is more in isolated splendor. another difference....BL doesn't have sidewalk seating, AH does!

I still recall worrying that before BL opened its doors back in 2009, that it was too big & ambitious for the hood --->

more recently, I wondered if there was a formula for AH that would offer an equally nice niche as BL's....I was worried they'd have to duplicate BL to get that ---->

however, AH is closer to the grittier, skid row side of the hood, & I don't know whether that will intimidate ppl who otherwise have no problem visiting BL. With all the perishables in the mini mkt, they will need higher turnover, more sales from customers. I hope my worrying about that also is ---->

changes like this deserve.....

Nice shots of AH. It seems AH and BL have taken the deli concept and enhanced it. Are cities like Chicago and NYC seeing similar stores open? I don't think there is anything like them here.

And let me add.......no one does interior design like Angelenos.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LA/OCman

Yes, Perch is on the rooftop of an old historic office bldg at 5th and Hill. I took my friend there who grew up in Germany and she was blown away by the place. The Hotel Clark I believe is just north of Perch on Hill Street between 4th and 5th.

I bought lofts at both the Rowan and Eastern Columbia...and I am not sure which area I am more excited about. Around 9th and Broadway development is really just starting to increase. The vibrancy around 5th and Spring is what is amazing...and especially 6th which has Pussy and Pooch, Coles/The Varnish, the Association Bar, Las Perlas, Mignon Wine Bar, a new sweet shop, Babycakes and now Artisan. The big dead zone is Spring around the Ronald Reagan office bldg. It is deadsville at night...until you get to 2nd where the Edison, Pitfire Pizza, Vibiana Place are located.

The Eastern Columbia bldg was at the top of my list, then the Clark and Embassy.....and several others. No one did deco as well as LA..........even Miami. How big is your condo in the Eastern Columbia? If you don't mind posting pics, I would really like to see some interior shots. TIA.

I think the area around Pershing Square could be really hot if the right development of new bldgs and the rehab of older bldgs happens. The big problem is what was the the jewelry mart bldg when I lived in LA. I think it was built in the 80s and is right across from the Biltmore.........it takes up too much space on the street level without much pedestrian activity....more dead space. Otherwise I think the area around PS could be very dynamic.......esp. if PS is made more pedestrian friendly and the right development goes in on the site across from the Biltmore heading north. I think the project planned for that site is pretty much dead so I hope something new is proposed.

The Perch is hot......interesting concept. I hope it succeeds. I am not surprised about dead space around the Ronald Reagan. That's why I am not a fan of skyscraper office bldgs....not that the RR is a skyscraper. Typically, these bldgs have little retail on the ground level, and after 5 PM, pedestrian activity grinds to a halt. Give me an office bldg that isn't a monument to some corp with retail on the ground floor, and that makes me very happy.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I went downtown today to test out my new 5D MKII. I took some pictures, not trying to be artistic or anything, but just to get a feel for the camera. Here they are:



Looks like this building on Main St. just got a new ground floor. Naturally, I took a picture. It looks really good, with a nice use of high quality materials, like glass and brick.

Great photos in general and I really like this bldg on Main......the windows are amazing. I don't know how I missed that bldg when I lived in LA. Of course back then, for safety reasons, I drove Main instead of walking it. I really like it a lot.

While the new ground floor addition isn't horrific, its not great........really breaks up the window treatments above the first floor and not in a good way........and its those window treatments that make the bldg. They must let in tons of light. I wonder why the bldg is not on the historic registry. In any case, the modernization can be undone going forward.

Thanks for the photos..........

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by alki

While the new ground floor addition isn't horrific, its not great........really breaks up the window treatments above the first floor and not in a good way........and its those window treatments that make the bldg.

The ground floor was already destroyed via a modernization effort from way back when. Originally, the developers just covered the ground floor in brown stucco. Now, at least, they tried to do something attractive and modern.

[alki]

Citywatch, to revisit a subject from a couple of weeks ago........Seattle vs LA architecture.

First let me say.......I consider architecture to be one of the arts. However, unlike most art, architecture is frequently the result of a collaboration aka too many cooks. and is frequently restrained by cost. In addition, you have the architect's ego. This combination usually leads to ugly or so so buildings. I think good architecture is infrequent, and great architecture a rarity. That means my expectations are somewhat dampened when a new building is announced.

So then, here is a so so building that went up where I live in West Seattle about two years ago. Its an example of the typical building that has gone up in the city over the past ten years:



Its massing is inappropriate for the site.......on its right is a parking lot and the existing buildings that surround it [ignore the gray bldg to the left......its been photoshopped in] are mostly 2-3 stories. However, that problem will drop away going forward as new buildings are built in this commercial node..........the area is designated for higher density and is experiencing considerable new construction.

The building's skin is meh.........they tried to tart it up with the contrasting brown and gray coloring but its still nothing to get excited about. I like the balconies and window treatments.......they're okay. But, for me, what saves this building is the retail on the first floor.

And that's the thing which I think distinguishes Seattle from LA. Every new building that's gone up since I arrived here in the late 90s is definitely mixed use if there is even a hint of commercial on the street. And while its rarely great architecture, the mixture of retail at the base somehow makes the building look more interesting. I think its key to one's perception of an urban area.

Its why I think many consider Paris a beautiful city. Individually, the buildings in Paris are what I call middle class architecture and are fairly innocuous if you look at them individually. However, when you take them as a whole, there is a symmentry to the massing coupled with retail at their base that makes the city both attractive and exciting.......at least for me. Of course, there are other details too....street trees, street furniture, no set backs, etc........but I really believe one of the important elements is mixed use.

It looks to me like mixed use finally has a toehold in LA and more mixed projects will be built going forward but from time to time LA defaults back to what it knows......and that can be disconcerting and frustrating.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

The ground floor was already destroyed via a modernization effort from way back when. Originally, the developers just covered the ground floor in brown stucco. Now, at least, they tried to do something attractive and modern.

You're right. Its a definite improvement. However, I think that particular building deserves better. Its a very cool building. It would not have been that hard to bring the upper story window treatments down to the first floor. That would make the building sing IMO..............and for me, that's the goal...........getting a building to sing.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by alki

...I really like this bldg on Main......the windows are amazing. I don't know how I missed that bldg when I lived in LA. Of course back then, for safety reasons, I drove Main instead of walking it. I really like it a lot.

While the new ground floor addition isn't horrific, its not great........really breaks up the window treatments above the first floor and not in a good way........and its those window treatments that make the bldg. They must let in tons of light. I wonder why the bldg is not on the historic registry. In any case, the modernization can be undone going forward.

The rest of the building is great with the old school Chicago-style windows, but I personally don't like what they did with the ground floor. It's just one floor; they could have easily recreated how it originally looked; this ad is from 1915:

LAPL

I love the old telephone exchange: Call TRinity-0041.

[alki]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

The rest of the building is great with the old school Chicago-style windows, but I personally don't like what they did with the ground floor. It's just one floor; they could have easily recreated how it originally looked; this ad is from 1915:

LAPL

I love the old telephone exchange: Call TRinity-0041.

Wow. Nice find. And yeah, those old telephone numbers crack me up.

And the name of the store is funny too...........The Modern.

I bet the store was owned by 1915 hipsters.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by alki

I think its key to one's perception of an urban area.

alki, I don't disagree with the points you raise about the best way new projs should be designed, or how it's better to have top class architecture instead of sunbelt junk. but I think the average person doesn't give good marks or bad marks to hoods, or cities overall, based on whether almost every bldg or devlpt deserves to win a prize from critics at the AIA or urban planners. I think far more ppl go not cuz a new apt bldg lacks retail on the 1st floor, or cuz it has stucco walls. I think far more ppl go when they run into things like the deadzone parking lot across from the new artisan house....


maps.google.com

iow, a city will score poorly----& this is true not just of LA but many american cities in general----when it has too many funky & fugly areas. It's those things & the poverty that goes with them that turn off way more ppl than anything else. And i say this is true of most american cities, cuz look at how a corner of a major public bldg in SF is no better than this....


maps.google.com

^ that's sf's answer to seattle's benaroya hall & LA's Disney hall. but such fugliness or poor design isn't held against a city like SF as much as it is against LA, cuz LA unfortunately has more of this....



^ when things are that bad, the average person isn't going to go cuz some new bldg or proj isn't deserving of a design award or has a parking podium instead of stores on its first floor. Now don't get me wrong. if new projs or new bldgs aren't well put together, that doesn't help a hood or city. but in the bigger picture, that problem doesn't rank on the top. If it actually did, that would mean LA was in much better shape----that is was more like paris or some other european city.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by dachacon

To add fuel to the department store fire: No one has discussed the possibility of Kohl's opening on Broadway.

to make things more complicated, I suddenly realize that kohl's has checkout areas only at its front entrance areas. Yet kohls does seem like more of a dept store to me than target or walmart. so maybe some of what both pesto & jamesinclair say is a correct description makes sense.

now that you mention kohls, I have a hunch that if a so called "department" store is thinking of moving into the old may co bldg on broadway, that it very well could be kohls. not sure if that would be an easy sell for them, since that part of dt can be a tricky location for businesses that need lots of customers who are buyers & not just looky loos, or fans of haggling & swapmeets.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

I went downtown today to test out my new 5D MKII. I took some pictures, not trying to be artistic or anything, but just to get a feel for the camera.

thanks for the pics...they help keep this thread alive. I hope you keep snapping lots more photos of dt in the future.

the shots of food make me hungry. They remind me of photo threads in ssp's "my city photos" forum where both images like those & close ups of ppl make it harder to tell which city is being captured on film. I notice lots of city pictorials sold at Barnes & noble, often called coffee table books, favor that type of format throughout their photo spreads.

the old bldg next to the pe bldg is a classic. its huge windows make it look surprisingly modern, which was a perfect design for the "modern furniture store". only bad thing about that design is for ppl suffering from acrophobia (kind of like me!), their standing next to the windows on the upper floors would have been been a traumatic experience.

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by citywatch

to make things more complicated, I suddenly realize that kohl's has checkout areas only at its front entrance areas. Yet kohls does seem like more of a dept store to me than target or walmart. so maybe some of what both pesto & jamesinclair say is a correct description makes sense.

now that you mention kohls, I have a hunch that if a so called "department" store is thinking of moving into the old may co bldg on broadway, that it very well could be kohls. not sure if that would be an easy sell for them, since that part of dt can be a tricky location for businesses that need lots of customers who are buyers & not just looky loos, or fans of haggling & swapmeets.

Id bet that Kohls and Forever 21 are a billion times more likely than something like Nordstrom or Saks, regardless of what "department store" means to most people.

IMO, the use of "department store" was just a way of saying "big" and not necessarily "will sell chocolates, toasters, shoes and perfume as well" (of which Kohls all does as well, and yet I wasnt thinking of them as a department store either, probably also because of their checkout format....)

[pesto]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

Id bet that Kohls and Forever 21 are a billion times more likely than something like Nordstrom or Saks, regardless of what "department store" means to most people.

IMO, the use of "department store" was just a way of saying "big" and not necessarily "will sell chocolates, toasters, shoes and perfume as well" (of which Kohls all does as well, and yet I wasnt thinking of them as a department store either, probably also because of their checkout format....)

Since we can't get off deparmtent stores (whatever they may be), I notice that Glendale is getting a Bloomies next to Americana and that the Galleria is getting a major makeover which will leave space for another large tenant. Given the distance from DT LA to Glendale (and Pasadena), this may make upscale shopping DT less likely for the short-term.

btw, the Galleria is not doing nearly enough; they need to open to the street and get it over with.