Halifax Stadium Discussion

[-Harlington-]

I can live with the 14,000 decision but i dont agree with Dartmouth Crossing, you cant even get there on a bus from the bridge terminal let alone anywhere else in HRM

And were supposed to be against sprawl ?

[q12]

Wow just heard this on the radio. News 95.7 said the report stated the stadium would cost between $54 Million and $71 Million. Also it said expandable over 20,000. But for this cost why can't we get one of stadiums given as examples that seat in 20,000 range. That is an expensive 14,000 seater!! Look what moncton built for a fraction of that.

The News 95.7 report also stated they recommended the commodore drive location next to the existing football field.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

[fenwick16]

All the phase 2 reports are this link - http://halifax.ca/council/agendasc/111206rcAgenda.html.

[q12]

Our recommendation, which was
largely supported through public feedback, is the construction of a 14,000 permanent seat
facility.

[q12]

Stadium committee proposing 14,000 seat stadium for Halifax
Jonathan Muma
Dec 02, 2011 16:26:43 PM

http://www.news957.com/news/article/3060...roposing-14-000-seat-stadium-for-halifax

The city's stadium committee is suggesting Halifax move forward with a proposal to build a new stadium.

The recommendations, that will be brought forward at Tuesday's council meeting, are that a stadium should be built that would meet the requirements of the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup.

The committee goes on to suggest the stadium should have 14,000 permanent seats with the ability to expand to over 20,000 seats.

"I'm glad to see the number is higher than 10,000," says District 3 city councilor David Hendsbee. "I was hoping for something like a 15,000 permanent seat basis that could go with a capacity going up to 20-25,000 on a temporary seat basis."

The report says the best site for the stadium would be on Commodore Drive at Dartmouth Crossing. The estimated cost to build the proposed stadium ranges from $54.8 - $71.1 million.

[q12]

This is a 14,000 seater that I posted previously.
Netanya Stadium in Isreal.

Built in 2 stages:

First Stage capacity is 14,000 seats
Final Stage is 24,000

and construction cost approx. 60 million Canadian dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netanya_Stadium







Has anyone found in the report if specifies what type of seating (bench or folding seats)?

[cormiermax]

Freaking farce, such a cant do attitude. I hope there is a huge amount of public backlash about the size, location, and price! What the hell are these idiots thinking!!

[Empire]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

Freaking farce, such a cant do attitude. I hope there is a huge amount of public backlash about the size, location, and price! What the hell are these idiots thinking!!

I don't think it's a disaster if done correctly.

1. It's not a done deal and may not happen at all.
2. It could be changed and seats might be added.
3. If we get 14,000 seats now and and have a successful FIFI tourney then another 11,000 seats should be a no brainer.
4. It's not as though the CFL is knocking on the door and won't be for 3-5 years anyway.
5. It's not as though Moncton is about to upgrade their stadium to 25,000 anytime soon for no reason.
6. If we can drive to Moncton for concets then people from Halifax can drive to Dartmouth Crossing.

[Phalanx]

The Israeli stadium looks pretty good. I can only hope that they'll give the design that much care here. I fear we'll get something cheap and purely utilitarian, though. And yes, it would have been nice if they'd at least started at 20k permanent seats.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Empire

I don't think it's a disaster if done correctly.

1. It's not a done deal and may not happen at all.
2. It could be changed and seats might be added.
3. If we get 14,000 seats now and and have a successful FIFI tourney then another 11,000 seats should be a no brainer.
4. It's not as though the CFL is knocking on the door and won't be for 3-5 years anyway.
5. It's not as though Moncton is about to upgrade their stadium to 25,000 anytime soon for no reason.
6. If we can drive to Moncton for concets then people from Halifax can drive to Dartmouth Crossing.

It's not a disaster. The stadium out in DC could still fundamentally work, although it doesn't seem optimal. What I wonder about though is how they mention in the report that Shannon Park is a good site, but that it's not the frontrunner because it is riskier to develop in the short timeframe.

This is a piece of $60-70M infrastructure that, if built correctly, should be around for many decades and host thousands of events. I question the wisdom of choosing a site on the basis of how quickly it can be secured for a single event.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Empire

6. If we can drive to Moncton for concerts then people from Halifax can drive to Dartmouth Crossing.

Speaking selfishly, I can't. I don't have a car on this end of the country.

In any case, you can't equate it to travelling to Moncton. Moncton is a whole other province away, long-distance transportation is your only option for getting there in the first place. Even Calgary for all its issues with sprawl and overreliance on car transport has reasonable public-transit options for getting to MacMahon - as there should seeing as how it's the LOCAL stadium. That's not to say that DC can't work as a location, but they're going to need far better transit links to and from the stadium for it to be successful.

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Dartmouth Crossing was my first choice so I am happy with this choice.

As for 14,000 permanent seats I am also OK with this too so long as they are constructed in a way that allows for future expansion of another 14k permanent seats or so and also leaves the possibility of adding even more temporary seats for large events (Grey Cups, concerts,etc.). Perhaps like I stated in my last post, construct 1 side of the stadium with these 14k permanent seats, proper boxes, press area, dressing rooms, concourses, proper washroom facilities and food stands. Add the remaining 6k seats (more if desired) that are required for FIFA using temporary stands on the opposite side.

Remember that the reason for building this stadium right now is indeed for the FIFA event and not for the CFL (at least not yet). So in order to qualify for any gov't $ right now the focus has to remain on what is needed for FIFA.

I would have loved to see a wonderful new 25k permanent seat stadium with expansion ability built right now but never really felt it was realistic to expect this to happen.

Guaranteed if this is built the right way I can see the CFL here shortly after the FIFA event is over.

[fenwick16]

This is an excerpt from the staff report that I think will be presented on December 6th before HRM Council. Here is the staff report link - http://halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/111206ca1011ii.pdf

Preliminary Design

The facility will be designed as a functional and attractive venue that citizens will be proud to use, and proud to have in their community. The facility, designed to be Community Driven – Event Supported will increase community sport and recreation opportunity for turf activities year-round. The facility is designed with an air-supported bubble over the field of play in order to ensure year-round usage. The community spaces (meeting rooms, change rooms, etc.) will be designed to allow for conversion to event spaces when National and International events are hosted at the stadium. Generally speaking, although subject to Regional Council approval of final facility design, the Program of Spaces would resemble the following:

The field-of-play will be designed to accommodate soccer and football as the
predominate sports, but will accommodate a number of other sports and activities in different configurations.

Seating will be as intimate as possible which means that seating at the ends of the stadium will be as close as possible to the field-of-play during large events.

During legacy mode, the end zones will be open. One end zone will be designed as a family-friendly sloped grass viewing area that will be capable of accommodating picnics and informal gathering as part of the spectator and event experience.

Permanent seating will be restricted to the sides of the field-of-play. One side (warm side) will incorporate all of the permanent indoor spaces including dressing rooms, administrative spaces, multipurpose rooms, meeting rooms. This side will also be designed with an elevated concourse that feeds both the upper and lower seating units. The other side of permanent seating (cold side) may more closely resemble a bleacher seating structure, but will be fully supplied with fixed-back seats as a minimum FIFA requirement.

If possible, weather protection (sun canopy) should be considered for part of the permanent seating area.

Public Domain (concessions, washrooms, vending, small commercial areas, circulation areas) is to be designed as accessible space, and incorporated into the concourse areas for maximum economies and convenience.

Overall, I am happy with the recommendations. The design is very similar to BMO Field without the endzone seats (however, it is just a preliminary design). I like the fact that all the permanent seats will be along the sidelines and will be backed, and I assume folding seats, on both sides. I also like the fact that one end will be sloped and grass for picnics (this is a great feature in Akron's InfoCision Stadium).

I certainly hope that the 14,000 permanent seat option will be chosen (or larger). Also, I like the recommendation of no permanent endzone seats since it increases the expansion capability.

I would prefer a site as close to the population center as possible with the easiest public transportation for the maximum number of people. For that reason, I would prefer Shannon park (however, I wish it would be on the peninsula).

[RyeJay]

Dartmouth Crossing, eh? I guess we aren't building a community stadium after all.

And Shannon Park, risky? Of what--success?
A waterfront stadium is more valuable to the community. We need to press this: how risky is Shannon Park actually? Would a stadium likely not be in completion in time for FIFA....or is this really just about a quick-fix from a business park? Apparently the aim, simply, is to satisfy FIFA and nothing more... Such an amazing investment choice.

So....a FIFA stadium...in a business park. Halifax will address its sprawl starting never.

Pathetic.

[Jstaleness]

I'm not sure where the feds stand on support money for our stadium at this point. Instead of funding could they not give the shannon park land to the province or HRM to allow us to build a stadium there at low cost? Is there anything like a land swap that could be done. I think there is still the Mi'kmaq land rights in there too, so maybe the site is just not able to be developed in the short term. Shannon Park stadium would just be so much more visible and a very nice addition to a needed revival of prime waterfront land.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yep. Nobody lives near the DC location. If it were on the peninsula many people could walk or bike and many more people could get there on a single bus. Visitors could stay in nearby hotels close to many attractions. In Dartmouth crossing nobody would be able to walk and most people would be looking at a bus connection. Visitors would not have good local entertainment options.

Another problem with the attitude of developing only on "easy" sites is that the city ends up with tons of underused brownfield. These are both unsightly and reduce density, making it harder to get around and driving apart neighbourhoods. Halifax basically gets hit twice by sprawl when the decision is made to build on the fringe instead of on an urban site.

The DC site is a former quarry - so its not greenfield development. The site is severely constrained though, due to the approved residential component north of Wright Ave. limiting future expansion.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by planarchy

The DC site is a former quarry - so its not greenfield development. The site is severely constrained though, due to the approved residential component north of Wright Ave. limiting future expansion.

Woops - I see now they are suggesting the Commodore location - I don't know if this can happen. I've heard DCL isn't interested in using this location, instead pushing for the quarry site.

[fenwick16]

According to the following report (page 67/137 of the pdf file) - http://halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/111206ca1011iiiAppendices.pdf , the sideline seats would be by Dant Clayton. They have done the grandstands for many stadiums including BMO Field. Dant Clayton seems to specialize in aluminum decked grandstands, however, their website also mentions a new generation of hybrid decking structures that are concrete/steel - http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/products.

I can't say that I like the aluminum decked stadiums; they just seem like temporary stadiums even if they are permanent. I wonder if concrete precast systems have been considered. There is a company in the Maritimes which has done precast stadiums - Strescon - http://www.strescon.com/stadiumtech.aspx#1482. Since most of SMU Stadium is concrete, can it really be that much more expensive???

[fenwick16]

I think that the Commodore site might be this one that is owned by HRM - http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax+ns&...fax+County,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6

[ewjonsson]

With this news release, I am withdrawing my support for the stadium. I totally would have preferred any stadium on the peninsula, and failing that, a decent stadium within the circ/ inner ring suburbs. However, with a stadium in Dartmouth crossing, there is no incentive for me to support any such thing, as I feel it has no benefit for the region whatsoever.

I was working in Shannon Park this morning, and was thinking about how awesome it would be to have some sort of catalyst for redevelopment in that area. The views are awesome, it is very accesible, and from what I have heard, DND is chomping at the bit trying to unload that property on someone. Whoever decided against that area needs to reconsider their priorities.

I understand that the HRM needs some aspect of a community facility in order to fund this idea, but is this worth the cost? Why not just build the football/soccer equivalent of the four-pad somewhere in dartmouth to solve this problem? I don't think its fair to hijack the stadium project with ideas of community accesibility and ease of access. This is a stadium, where people pay to watch other people fight for something that money can't buy. This means that we cannot build a stadium in the place that is easiest to access according to the GPS mounted on your mini-van's windshield. We need a stadium available to everyone in the city, and I feel this means that we need a more centrally located site.

What universites would play their games at a Dartmouth Crossing location? How many university students do you know that would trek three quarters of the way across the municipality in order to see the game?

Yes, my buddy's children would probably use this, but that is because he lives just minutes from the forest hills parkway. Would my other friend in Clayton Park drive across the bridge to use this 'community facility'? probably not, which makes it a community facility, not a regional one.

Disclosure, I thought Shannon park was a shoo-in given that half of the community meetings were at Farell Hall, which is a stone's throw away from it, and one of the saddest looking venues in HRM. I guess the meetings were a total sham though, as nothing from those meetings seems to have been considered at all.

In my opinion, Halifax should drop the FIFA bid if this is the best that council can muster. Sometimes it is better to hiold out until a better offer comes around.

Eric