ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[joecool]

Originally Posted by cherry85

hi, i am new arrival here.

Welcome! (=

[briantech]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

thank you for understanding! its just been after living in atlanta for all of my life and hearing it constantly gets so old! it isnt the blocks around the pine shelter, it isnt fourth ward, it isnt any of those places! its every other pocket of the city that hasnt yet properly "gentrified".

i am all for the development of surface parking lots! i am all for the renovation of abandoned homes! and its just nuts to me that people see these areas as "hood", "seedy", "sketchy", "shady", etc.! terrible crimes take place all over the city, and from experience, most of these happen in neighborhoods that supposedly lack them. what sickens me most is that these stereotypes and associations put bad epithets on those that live in the communities. get over it people! just because those streets arent upper class, "walkable", and "desirable" doesnt mean it needs to be fixed.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Can you specifically cite one of the areas you're talking about?

[Terminus]

Having worked in most Atlanta neighborhoods (from Bankhead to Buckhead, as they say), I've seen that most neighborhoods agree on the needs for a few basics:

• Safe sidewalks and walkability
• Neighborhood shops and services (especially a grocery store)
• Good schools and public facilities
• Parks and open spaces
• Public safety
• Limiting the impacts of cut-through traffic
• Economic development that serves existing residents

Where things get messy, per the previous posts, is when these generalities become laden with cultural and race/class implications. When people use terms on this forum to discuss Atlanta's issues they should be more precise about what exactly they mean. I've never people screaming to save parking lots, auto-oriented building forms, or public safety concerns.

[micropundit]

An affiliate of Carter Validus Mission Critical REIT Inc. has reached an agreement to buy part of downtown Atlanta’s former Macy’s building for $94.7 million, or about $280 per square foot.

The building, known as 180 Peachtree, is a 338,000-square-foot data center leased to six tenants, including Switch and Data, Level 3 Communications, and the city of Atlanta’s 911 center operations



http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_talk/2011/11/reit-to-buy-part-of-atlantas-old.html

[shivtim]

A brief correction to Simms epic/awesome post:
The new building on CDC's Chamblee (Buford Hwy) campus isn't topped off yet; it's currently up to about the second floor.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by Terminus

Having worked in most Atlanta neighborhoods (from Bankhead to Buckhead, as they say), I've seen that most neighborhoods agree on the needs for a few basics:

• Safe sidewalks and walkability
• Neighborhood shops and services (especially a grocery store)
• Good schools and public facilities
• Parks and open spaces
• Public safety
• Limiting the impacts of cut-through traffic
• Economic development that serves existing residents

Where things get messy, per the previous posts, is when these generalities become laden with cultural and race/class implications. When people use terms on this forum to discuss Atlanta's issues they should be more precise about what exactly they mean. I've never people screaming to save parking lots, auto-oriented building forms, or public safety concerns.

Agreed.

I have been a resident of Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Chicago - and I spend a considerable amount of time in New York. My work (in urban design) has brought me to dozens of other cities - in this country and others.

Your post sums up what I think is a truism in cities all over the world. People, no matter where they live, value those things. And Atlanta will succeed where it can improve upon all of those traits.

As an aside, I was in town this weekend for the Georgia-Georgia Tech game (sigh)....I must say, the city is looking great. Lots of activity and new retail/restaurants! Simple urban design improvements have really made a big difference in areas. Always great to see my hometown getting better.

[scania]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

BrianTech, you don't understand. That was built in 2004. It's too early for something to look "2000s." The building isn't even ten years old. In another five years, it would look outdated, and in another 15 years, people will be calling it an eyesore that needs to be torn down.

Brick is timeless, even in residential construction. Stone comes and goes, stucco appears dead (for now)--only brick has been constant.

I'm sure the Buckhead Library, the Hyatt Regency, and the Central Library were considered "pretty cool" in their own era.

I think it's a matter of opinion. Those buildings aren't an eyesore to me. I think people should be more open-minded and stuck in a mentality of what they have known growing up.

[mike1986]

A tex-mex restaurant from Dallas is opening in 12th and Midtown next fall...

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2011/11/25/texas-mi-cocina-coming-to-12th.html

While I welcome more restaurants to Midtown, I really hope this isn't the Midtown Mile announcement! Really hoping to see some permanent retail along Peachtree Street.

[jpk1292000]

Building permit for 12th and Midtown's 77 12th street filed

http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/11/29/12th-midtown-owners-spending-40-million-on-phase-4/

I really wish the rendering shown on the page is the one that will actually be built. Specifically:



...but I think that this is just a placeholder. I fear the actual renderings are the boring Novare-like glass box shown in the link at the bottom of the article.

[mike1986]

Originally Posted by jpk1292000

Building permit for 12th and Midtown's 77 12th street filed

http://whatnowatlanta.com/2011/11/29/12th-midtown-owners-spending-40-million-on-phase-4/

I really wish the rendering shown on the page is the one that will actually be built. Specifically:



...but I think that this is just a placeholder. I fear the actual renderings are the boring Novare-like glass box shown in the link at the bottom of the article.

If you are referring to the apartment tower, this is the wrong rendering...

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/pr.../daniel-corp-plans-22-story-atlanta.html

The above rendering is for the proposed office tower on the empty lot off Peachtree Street and 13th.

[testarossa50]

I wish we could get some new apartments in Midtown that aren't super-high-end (I mean, there seems to be a endless number of people willing to pay $1,000/mo to live there; probably not so many willing to pay $1,600/mo), but this will definitely be cool. Apartments fill up fast usually and will put an extra ~500 people into Midtown walking around, going to restaurants, and so on.

Is it possible to get construction costs down to below $100k/unit by simplifying things a lot? When you go to cities like Hong Kong and Paris, most of the high-rise apartments aren't floor-to-ceiling glass with swimming pools and balconies and bocce ball and stuff. They are normal, middle-class buildings with normal-sized windows and so on. I want more of those.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I wish we could get some new apartments in Midtown that aren't super-high-end (I mean, there seems to be a endless number of people willing to pay $1,000/mo to live there; probably not so many willing to pay $1,600/mo), but this will definitely be cool. Apartments fill up fast usually and will put an extra ~500 people into Midtown walking around, going to restaurants, and so on.

Is it possible to get construction costs down to below $100k/unit by simplifying things a lot? When you go to cities like Hong Kong and Paris, most of the high-rise apartments aren't floor-to-ceiling glass with swimming pools and balconies and bocce ball and stuff. They are normal, middle-class buildings with normal-sized windows and so on. I want more of those.

A concrete slab room in an old building rents for $1,000++ in Hong Kong and Paris. Luxury apartments like we get in Atlanta here would rent for at least $5.00/SF. Construction costs, development costs, and the basis in the land are so high in those cities. In Midtown Atlanta and in Buckhead along Peachtree, land and construction costs can also be quite high but not that high. Lenders basically need units to rent out at at least $1.70/SF ( or some similar number). Translated, new construction 1-BRs are $1,500 and up ($2,900 in the Atlantic!), and 2-BRS start at about $2,000 and up.

Tax incentives can lower the cost of new construction, increase the return for the investors, provide comfort for lenders, and at the end of the day can even lower starting rents provided certain return metrics are met first. This is the scenario with Novare's Skyhouse.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

A concrete slab room in an old building rents for $1,000++ in Hong Kong and Paris. Luxury apartments like we get in Atlanta here would rent for at least $5.00/SF. Construction costs, development costs, and the basis in the land are so high in those cities. In Midtown Atlanta and in Buckhead along Peachtree, land and construction costs can also be quite high but not that high. Lenders basically need units to rent out at at least $1.70/SF ( or some similar number). Translated, new construction 1-BRs are $1,500 and up ($2,900 in the Atlantic!), and 2-BRS start at about $2,000 and up.

Tax incentives can lower the cost of new construction, increase the return for the investors, provide comfort for lenders, and at the end of the day can even lower starting rents provided certain return metrics are met first. This is the scenario with Novare's Skyhouse.

Or not building parking.

I know of multifamily and hotel developers scouting several sites in Downtown and Midtown (mostly Downtown). They are telling us that they don't want to build any parking spaces in their project - the numbers just don't work given rents. Rather, they prefer building next to an existing park-for-hire deck that the tenants/guests can contract on their own for space in. As somebody who choses not to own a car, I love this. I don't believe people who chose to live without cars should have to pay for spaces they don't use.

[alleystreetindustry]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Dude, I LIVE in the community in which I am complaining about. The shelter, the decks and the empty lots create "sketchy" areas that are dangerous to be in at night. Again, no GT MBA student moseys down Spring St at night. Because they don't want to get jacked.

Nobody is making any blanket statements about Midtown or O4W.

Since you are so philosophical about all of this, you should partake of the *authentic* culture on Boulevard south of Ponce. No Starbucks here! Not a GAP in sight.

ironic that you say that, because i actually reside in a house on boulevard between edgewood and dekalb. definitely not the safest neighborhood in town but ive managed to walk home every night from the bars with little trouble.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

ironic that you say that, because i actually reside in a house on boulevard between edgewood and dekalb. definitely not the safest neighborhood in town but ive managed to walk home every night from the bars with little trouble.

Hurray for you...so that means we should ignore dangerous, unattractive neighborhoods located in the midst of our city? I don't think so. If you want to live among drug deals, blight, and crime then fine - you have several areas to choose from. But realize that you are the 1%...

[briantech]

between edgewood and dekalb is actually not that bad... it has been gentrified to some extent. The Sound Table, Church, Corner Tavern, the MLK center...

The area on boulevard between highland and ponce is where its a ghetto.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by briantech

between edgewood and dekalb is actually not that bad... it has been gentrified to some extent. The Sound Table, Church, Corner Tavern, the MLK center...

The area on boulevard between highland and ponce is where its a ghetto.

Agreed. I just walked on Boulevard near Auburn. There was nothing but hipsters. It's up north that it changes.

[mike1986]

Developers behind Pencil Factory Lofts and Highland Walk are proposing a new apartment complex on North Avenue next to the Beltline trail and diagonal from future Ponce City Market...

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2011...ex-along-beltline-near-ponce-city-market

If the transit tax passes and light rail is built, I can see these corridors exploding with growth. Of course there are plenty of critical posts by CL readers... yes there is an oversupply of homes for sale, but there are not enough urban apartments in this city and I'm pretty sure intown is fairing better than the suburbs right now.

[mike1986]

The main front entrance of Lenox Square Mall in Buckhead is getting a facelift starting spring of 2012... they plan to remove the porte cochere and redesign the front entrance to have more street level retail. This includes adding more space for new retailers which will be announced shortly after construction begins.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blog/2011/12/lenox-square-to-demolish-porte-cochere.html

I wonder if they plan on building out street level retail all the way towards Peachtree Street? Or just in front of the building? I'm curious to see the plans...

[simms3_redux]

Wow, just wow. The real transformation of Buckhead could begin with the malls, the streetscape, and then of course Buckhead Atlanta anchoring the other end. I am now hopeful.