The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread - Page 475

JasonL-Moncton · #**9481** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 3:29 PM**

Been a long time since we've seen this:

http://youtu.be/2jaT5T7ZGco

J

PS> Still firmly believe it is in the best interest of everything to remove the gates completely and put in a partial bridge and widening the channel further at the current choke point.

MonctonRad · #**9482** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 3:52 PM**

Oh, in a perfect world I would agree with you absolutely.

A partial bridge though would cost ~$100M and given the current fiscal realities of the province, I imagine that there will be considerable reluctance to do anything about it. Also, Prime Minister Harper has been influenced by the pro-lake faction, so I don't think any federal funds to legitimatize the opening of the barrier gates will be forthcoming either.

We may be stuck with the current situation and a permanently narrowed river channel....

Nice YouTube video of the tidal bore BTW!

Nashe · #**9483** Posted **Nov 28, 2011, 4:00 PM**

Yes, a lot more impressive than a few years ago!

BlackYear · #**9484** Posted **Nov 29, 2011, 2:51 PM**

Someone tweeted out this link with some vintage photos of Moncton, including several river pics. Amazing stuff!

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.320154084662535.86745.100000038392960&type=1&l=dddfe5b515

David_99 · #**9485** Posted **Nov 29, 2011, 5:01 PM**

Those side by side shots are actually from this very thread.

MonctonRad · #**9486** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 2:37 AM**

Some of those vintage pictures I have not seen before. Thanks for posting!

A couple of Mapleton Road notes:
- has anyone else noticed the avant garde lighting in the lobby of that new medical/dental building next to Future Inn. It's very exotic and eye catching. This will be one of the most interesting commercial buildings in the city.
- they are busy curing the concrete pad of the new Cleve's/Golf Town building in the Mapleton Power Centre. I think the structural steel will be going up soon.

mmmatt · #**9487** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 2:47 AM**

^ Nice collection of pics!

A small rant on downtown...in the last few months we have seen a few activities on the central part of Main...We have unfortunately seen the closing of Candy Chameleon, however we have seen the opening of Relish Burgers, the Native Art Gallery, and this week there is a new Tea/Chocolate shop which has opened next to the Garden House Resturant.

So we are 1 down and 3 up as I see it...while this is an improvement, this area is still floundering as far as I can see...and It is my belief that it will remain that way until we see a major "after hours" draw enter the area.

By that I mean the area does well primarily during two times...mon-fri from 9am-5pm...this is due to the employment draw of the area...this is great for restaurants, but not retail stores. The other time the area does well is during Friday and Saturday evening between 10pm-2am primarily due to bar and club activity.

The primary issue (as we are all WELL aware) is the Events Center. This will bring in the Wildcats, the Miricles, along with many concerts and other shows. I would say the Center would be used approx 100 nights of the year (about 1/3 of all nights). That would bring in thousands of people to the downtown area on nights not normally busy for the street.

My prediction (a hopeful one) is that the center will start in 2013 and will be completed by 2015. My belief is that (based on our very positive hotel occupancy rates over the last 10 years) we will see a new downtown hotel development to go along with it.

I also predict that this will lead to increased occupancy on the central part of Main. And (very hopeful now) will lead to the filling in of the vacant lot with plywood fencing!

I know I am repeating myself here but its been a while since it was discussed and I just looked over the citys Capital Budget for 2012 and they mention the center on a full page. They show they are expecting it to cost $104M which is made up $48M from the feds and the province, $2.5M from fundraising, and $53.5M from the city.

link: http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Government+English/Budget+English/2012+Capital+Budget+Highlights.pdf

MonctonRad · #**9488** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 11:02 AM**

I firmly believe the 2013-2015 timeline is exactly what the city is looking at.

I think the province is on board for funding of this project. I bekieve the city is also committed. The wild card is the feds, but I think federal money will also be made available, but will be limited to $20M through the public private partner initiative.

Like you, I feel an integrated hotel and small downtown convention facility would be a big boost to the project. The recent hotel occupancy numbers really do help this idea along.

Just how much the events centre actually helps Main Street really depends on where it is located. While I tend to support the Highfield Square site, I do believe that the larger impact on Main Street would come from locating the centre on Assomption Blvd between the new courthouse and the Blue Cross Centre. Any new convention component to the facility couldd then be shared between a new hotel and the Hotel Beausejour.

A true downtown location would also give impetus to replacing the oceans of downtown surface parking with at least 2-3 enclosed multistorey parking structures. We also can't forget the concept of including an integrated downtown transit terminal.

mmmatt · #**9489** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 12:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I firmly believe the 2013-2015 timeline is exactly what the city is looking at.

I think the province is on board for funding of this project. I bekieve the city is also committed. The wild card is the feds, but I think federal money will also be made available, but will be limited to $20M through the public private partner initiative.

Like you, I feel an integrated hotel and small downtown convention facility would be a big boost to the project. The recent hotel occupancy numbers really do help this idea along.

Just how much the events centre actually helps Main Street really depends on where it is located. While I tend to support the Highfield Square site, I do believe that the larger impact on Main Street would come from locating the centre on Assomption Blvd between the new courthouse and the Blue Cross Centre. Any new convention component to the facility couldd then be shared between a new hotel and the Hotel Beausejour.

A true downtown location would also give impetus to replacing the oceans of downtown surface parking with at least 2-3 enclosed multistorey parking structures. We also can't forget the concept of including an integrated downtown transit terminal.

I agree, my ideal location would be between the courthouse and Blue Cross. This would provide the maximum benefit to downtown I believe. For once we would have a full solid block of high density development! It would be the end of that ocean of parking back there, and as you said, would make way for at least 2 large parking structures. I feel like this center could be the catalyst for getting the city used to parking garages. Right now we have one public garage...and most people never use it. The public needs to get used to the idea of parking in a garage, because very soon they will (thankfully) be required for new development downtown.

Dont get me wrong Highfield Square would still be a great location and I think it will likely be the choice in the end...primarily because it would be cheaper and easier...crombie is looking to offload the property and it sits in an ocean of parking. I live very close to Highfield Square, so personally it would be better for me if it was there, but I still feel its 2nd best for the city.

nwalbert · #**9490** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 2:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the province is on board for funding of this project.

What gives you that indication? I cant see any money even being discussed during this term which doesn't end until 2015. The province is getting ready to cut provincial pensions, wouldn't it be political suicide to then give out money for a hockey arena?

mmmatt · #**9491** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

What gives you that indication? I cant see any money even being discussed during this term which doesn't end until 2015. The province is getting ready to cut provincial pensions, wouldn't it be political suicide to then give out money for a hockey arena?

No,

1. there are 200,000 people in Monctons direct catchment area that want this. thats more than 1/4 of the electorate in NB.

2. The previous government and this one both indicated in their platforms they support the arena project.

3. This is much more than a "hockey arena" it is the main attraction in a downtown overhaul.

4. If the Feds, the city, and the fundraisers are all ready to go ahead the province will look pretty foolish if they are the only thing holding it back.

5. The main reason some things just need to be done...its not as though we are just trying to get a new arena for the heck of it...this will be replacing an arena that has LONG outlived its expiration date. The coliseum is very old, and it shows...we have had some blunders recently due to *terrible* climate control (World Curling Champ. ice melting etc). And we have missed out on major events often because of its low ceiling (Cirque, Metallica etc). Just because the province is in a bad way doesn't mean they can stop fixing the roads.

MonctonRad · #**9492** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

What gives you that indication? I cant see any money even being discussed during this term which doesn't end until 2015. The province is getting ready to cut provincial pensions, wouldn't it be political suicide to then give out money for a hockey arena?

I claim no special inside information, but the city has been working on this file for the last 3-4 years. The province has always seemed supportive. This includes the new Alward administration.

If the feds contribute $20M, this would be on the understanding of matching provincial funding (plus civic and private participation). The province would likely make the investment in order to ensure federal partcipation. That is the way these things usually work.

Plus, this project will be an important piece of civic infrastucture providing significant employment to the construction trades for at least two years. The project can also be viewed as a necessary investment in the city's growing sports and events tourism niche. It's no different than the provincial involvement in the new convention centre that just opened in Fredericton.

This is an investment that will produce economic growth and will lead to improved tax revenues to the province. This is why the province will want to get involved.

Capital dollars are always seperated from operational funding in any budgetary analysis. In general, salaries (and certainly pensions) are considered liabilities. I'm sure that trimming a bloated civil service and seeking relief from pension liabilities will still carry on while at the same time the province invests in needed infrastructure.

MonctonRad · #**9493** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 6:47 PM**

I see that mmmatt and I said much the same thing in our responses to nwalbert

In other news:

- I dropped into the new Toys R Us Express on Mountain Road and I was pretty impressed by the quality of the stock that they were carrying. I talked to one of the employees there and he confirmed that it is a "trial" location set up for the holiday season. If the store does well however, he said that the location would be made permanent. He said that they got off to a slow start, but now that people know that they are there, that business has been quite good recently. They have exceeded their sales targets on most days for the last two weeks and he seemed hopeful for the future of the location.

- I also see that Bella Casa 2 in Riverview is coming along like gangbusters. The footprint is the same as Bella Casa 1 and the roof trusses are now being installed. It makes a significant addition to the Riverview skyline.

- If I was to guess, I would say that the Valmond condo project on Dominion might end up looking a lot like Bella Casa.

nwalbert · #**9494** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If the feds contribute $20M, this would be on the understanding of matching provincial funding (plus civic and private participation). The province would likely make the investment in order to ensure federal partcipation. That is the way these things usually work.

The Feds contributing at this time is a pretty significant IF. Harper has been pretty clear on his feelings on supporting Arena's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Plus, this project will be an important piece of civic infrastucture providing significant employment to the construction trades for at least two years. The project can also be viewed as a necessary investment in the city's growing sports and events tourism niche. It's no different than the provincial involvement in the new convention centre that just opened in Fredericton.

This is an investment that will produce economic growth and will lead to improved tax revenues to the province. This is why the province will want to get involved.

Interesting point, but should the provincial government be responsible for providing economic activity? Shouldn't that come from Private enterprise? One could debate this for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Capital dollars are always seperated from operational funding in any budgetary analysis. In general, salaries (and certainly pensions) are considered liabilities. I'm sure that trimming a bloated civil service and seeking relief from pension liabilities will still carry on while at the same time the province invests in needed infrastructure.

I understand budgets very well, but perception is reality unfortunately. A provincial employee or the family of one who loses their pension is not going to be happy to see money going towards a new hockey arena anyway you put it.

Don't get me wrong, I think Moncton will get a new events center, I just don't suspect the project will get any commitment until the next provincial election. Then 1-2 years after that the federal government will come on board. This may be a blessing cause by that time you will need a bigger arena and may have some private capital to go with it.

mmmatt · #**9495** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 7:09 PM**

Also of note, I was on St. George today and I noticed the former Westley United Church on the corner of St. George and Cameron has been sold. So hopefully we will see some sort of fruitful development transpire! There is another old church nearby which became the home of DancEast school a while back.

The sold building I am speaking of is this one:

source: google maps

mmmatt · #**9496** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 7:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwalbert

The Feds contributing at this time is a pretty significant IF. Harper has been pretty clear on his feelings on supporting Arena's.

Point taken...however Harper was mainly concerned with supporting professional sports arenas like one in Quebec city aka for an NHL team. In Moncton its a bit of a different situation, we have the Miracles yes, but really its an amateur league in which the players make a bit of money...its FAR from the $$$ made by an average NHL franchise.

I, like you, am concerned with the provincial financial situation, and I'll admit it worries me RE: the center. That said I have watched city council meetings and every time its brought up they are very optimistic about it, so I am as well. Like I said this is necessary infrastructure. It will be used heavily and will bring in lots of $$ for the next 30+ years. I hope the province will look past their current issues which will be very distant memories by the time the new centers lifespan is complete.

Mattyyy · #**9497** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 7:41 PM**

Hi all, first time post. I likely won't post often, but enjoy reading your updates on the city!

On the topic of the events center, I just came across this article on the CBC. Can anybody shed on light on how this may impact the request for funding in Moncton? I fully support the center, and hope to see some news on this in the near future.

Gatineau mayor angry as Feds won't fund arena
City asked for about $20 million to help build the new $67 million Robert Guertin Arena
CBC News
Posted: Nov 30, 2011 8:34 AM ET
Last Updated: Nov 30, 2011 1:26 PM ET

Gatineau city council responded with disappointment Wednesday after hearing the federal government will not provide funding to help rebuild Robert Guertin Arena.

The City of Gatineau requested federal help with the costs after it was determined a new 5,000-seat arena would be built on the same site where the old building would be demolished. The city was asking for about $20 million to assist in completing the work.

Originally, the city had planned to build a brand new arena at another downtown site but that idea was quashed in April.

In a letter sent Tuesday, the federal Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities Denis Lebel explained the federal government 's position is not to help finance facilities used for professional sports or junior hockey.
Interim NDP leader sends letter to infrastructure minister

The City of Gatineau argued junior hockey would only count for about 10 to 15 per cent of the arena's usage but the government said the amount of use did not matter.

Mayor Marc Bureau told Radio-Canada Wednesday he is outraged at Lebel's rejection, as the minister added no funding would be provided.

Also on Wednesday, interim NDP leader Nycole Turmel sent a letter to Lebel, a federal Conservative, about the Guertin arena, which is in her riding of Hull-Aylmer.

At the NDP caucus meeting, Turmel said Lebel replied to her saying the Guertin arena is not the only arena project not getting the stamp of approval.

The city and Quebec provincial government have already promised to cover the other two-thirds of the estimated $67 million needed for a major overhaul of the building.

The current Robert Guertin Arena at 125 de Carillon Road was built in 1952 and seats less than 4,000 people, which falls short of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League's requirements.

MonctonRad · #**9498** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 7:52 PM**

It ofter depends on how applications are finessed through the approval process. There are also differents pots of money available and if you fail with one bid, you might be able to secure funding if you apply under a different program.

The city is applying through a special public private partnership funding program as far as I know. This may not be the route that Gatineau took.

EDIT - I just noticed that the Gatineau arena is in the riding of interim federal NDP leader Nycole Turmel. This could have some bearing on the federal government decision. Meanwhile, the MP for Moncton is Robert Goguen who sits on the government side of the house, is a parliamentary secretary and recently helped to negotiate an end to the impasse over the 10% rebate for the Codiac Regional RCMP. This might also have some relevance to this story.

Lrdevlop · #**9499** Posted **Nov 30, 2011, 11:32 PM**

Hello everyone!

I don't know if any of you noticed it but a couple of days ago they were pouring concrete at 2 spots on the lot at the intersection of King - Main. If you look closely, you can also see big bolts/rods sticking out. After hearing several rumors from good sources, I suspect that it might be for a sign announcing the construction of a... hotel! (well, that's what I heard). And with the good results of the hotel industry in the city, it wouldn't be suprising...

Thoughts?

MonctonRad · #**9500** Posted **Dec 1, 2011, 1:38 AM**

Interesting.......

I have not seen or heard anything about a new hotel in that location, but I am certainly not all knowing in such matters and you could be right. How good are your sources? Are they in the hotel industry or are they involved in city development?

For the time being, I will file this under "unsubstantiated rumour", along with my rumour of a new Sobeys in the Magnetic Hill area.