Calgary Public Transit II

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

It sucked, but hey, it was a freak windstorm, so I don't blame Calgary Transit.

We seem to have "freak" things happen on a very, very regular basis in this city. If CT or the City is incapable of having good contingency plans for things that happen at least several times per year, someone is dropping the ball. I don't give 2 shits what their excuse is anymore - the plain fact is that trains are blocked from downtown on a frequent enough basis. Windstorms at least twice that I can remember off the top of my head, suicides, vehicle collisions, frozen switches, etc, etc, etc.

Have an emergency plan for that, and make damned sure it works. The nature of the emergency is irrelevant - "trains can't go down 7th" is what you call it. And it happens all the time. I didn't get stuck in the chaos yesterday but I can only imagine the scene of 1000+ people standing around for an hour. Lucky it wasn't -20 outside. At the very least someone should have a way of notifying commuters that the C-Train is for all intents and purposes not working (morning rush is probably 95% core commuters). I bet plenty of people would have stayed home if they knew the chaos underway, which would also help mitigate the problem with shuttles, etc. I didn't know anything was wrong downtown until I started getting emails from cow-orkers.

I guess this is more reason to have underground lines in the downtown core (still no plans for what will end up on 7th Ave, but oh well). And 3rd St W station is STILL closed as of this morning - I guess it takes 2 full days to sweep up some glass.

Incidentally, I'm remembering another "freak windstorm" a couple (ish?) years back where construction debris was flying everywhere, and a little girl got crushed. The public outcry was huge, the construction industry smartened up and spent millions to ensure it doesn't happen again. I have yet to hear of a single construction site incident from Sunday. Granted things are a lot slower today, but still. Obviously it's possible to plan for this sort of thing. No one was standing around back then saying "eh, it was just a freak windstorm, there's nothing that can be done".

[fusili]

Although they did a pretty good job, there are quite a few things that Calgary Transit could have done better:

- Notify passengers exactly what is happening, and what they can do. The announcements at Dalhousie when I got there were saying something to the effect of "Service to the downtown is down. Look for shuttles." No indication that trains were actually running, just only to SAIT, or that the shuttles were leaving from Banff Trail. There should be pre-programmed announcements for most every conceivable event (7th avenue shutdown being one of them) and plans for accomodation of that event. People shouldn't just be told what is happening (and vaguely in this case), but also what their options are, and clearly. As well, each station should have specific messages. For instance, Brentwood should have announcements saying that the 9 and 10 both run downtown and can be used as an alternative.
- C-Train shuttle service needs to be the priority, not an afterthought. This means that all articulated buses should be rerouted to C-Train service, regular buses be put on BRT routes and high capacity routes, and the remaining buses and shuttles used for the rest. Yes, this means that a few people will have to wait for a second bus on some feeder route because the shuttle is full. But that is preferable to literally over a thousand people waiting for long periods of time at stations like Lion's Park, Erlton and Bridgeland.
-For any emergency that does not necessitate closing 7th avenue- don't close 7th avenue. For "police emergencies" at stations or on tracks, simply close the one station, remove whatever impediment is on the tracks, and continue operations.

[floobie]

I don't have too much to complain about. I saw a news report about the damage downtown, so I immediately checked the CT website to see if service would be affected. It was indeed, so I'd planned to either take a shuttle from Lions Park or take the train to SAIT and walk the rest of the way to Banker's Hall. Though, like I said, I ended up taking a bus from Brentwood instead.

Where CT as a whole failed, but the conductor of the train I happened to be on totally ruled, was letting passengers know about routes that go downtown from Brentwood. And, indeed, the announcements on the platforms about "looking for a shuttle bus" were rather vague. Had I not known in advance what to do, I would've been totally lost.

That said: I do think passengers can be expected to take a bit of responsibility for finding information. A good chunk of people have smartphones these days, and can easily look up the CT website from anywhere. The webpage dedicated to these delays and reroutes was pretty comprehensive (though, again, mentioning alternative bus routes besides the Lions Park/Bridgeland/Erlton shuttles would've been helpful), and they had someone on Twitter posting constant updates, and answering people's questions all day.

Anyway, what I'd take out of this:

- Downtown subway would be very nice indeed!
- More specific and exhaustive communication from CT.
- The shuttles could've been handled a bit better. But, even a few big bendy buses can't be expected to take on even a single train's worth of people. As such, I too find it sort of ridiculous to consider using BRT in place of LRT for these proposed high traffic routes, such as the SETWAY.

[AgentGibb]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Have an emergency plan for that, and make damned sure it works. The nature of the emergency is irrelevant - "trains can't go down 7th" is what you call it. And it happens all the time.

This.

Even for planned outages on weekends when ridership is much lower the shuttle service is a complete joke.

From the Herald article this morning:
"But how could a backup contingent of some 40 city buses - every roadworthy bus Calgary Transit had in its garages - possibly come close to replacing a daily cavalry of 42 three-car trains going through the downtown during the morning peak?"

I give CT credit for throwing everything they had at the problem, but clearly everything they had wasn't nearly good enough. I also appreciate that CT is really at the mercy of the funding they receive, and given the current state of that, I don't anticipate this sort of thing to be zero-impact.

That said, CT's failure to communicate is as evident as ever. It's immediately obvious that 40 buses fighting through rush hour traffic are not going to come anywhere close to providing adequate service in lieu of the train. This is not a surprise, so TELL PEOPLE THAT: "There are shuttles running between x and y, but capacity is very limited. Expect major delays or try an alternate routing to your destination." How difficult is that?

My wife got on the bus yesterday morning and the driver said *nothing* about any sort of problem at all. If he had, she might have just stayed home and worked remotely.

Honestly. If you know there's a major weakness in your network, the solution is NOT to direct as many people as possible toward that weakness. Give people the best information you can as early as you can so that they can make an informed decision about finding alternatives.

And no, saying "you should have subscribed to the twitter feed" does not make it okay. That doesn't really help someone standing in a mob waiting for a shuttle that you already know has no realistic chance of dealing with the volume in any meaningful way.

And finally, why Lions Park and Erlton? Why not Sunnyside and Victoria Park? If nothing else it would reduce the walking distance for those that chose to do so. Lions Park to a point in the middle of downtown is 3.9km which is a 46min walk according to google. Sunnyside is half the distance and only 24min. 22 minutes unnecessarily wasted times a few thousand people adds up to a lot of lost productivity. Even if you need to run the shuttles from Lions Park for some operational reason, you could let those that choose to walk stay on the train until Sunnyside.

[freeweed]

AgentGibb, I couldn't have said it better.

Good to hear they had an announcement at the departing stations at least. With that info, I'd have turned around and gone straight home, and worked from home that day. I remember several times standing around Crowfoot for at least half an hour with no trains, and FINALLY they come on with an announcement - by that point I'm halfway planning on heading home anyway. There's nothing more frustrating than a complete information black hole - if you know service is disrupted, TELL US. CT is slowly getting better at this, thankfully.

I think what this really shows (and what some of us have known for a while now) is that LRT service has changed in Calgary. It's no longer "just an alternative to the bus or driving". It is a critical piece of civic infrastructure. Any disruption to it affects tens of thousands of people. Possibly more than any other single thing - if Deerfoot has issues, at least cars can do on different roads. But the LRT is a massive single point of failure that has cascading affects on just about everything.

The one bit of good news that I do notice every time is that corporate Calgary is fairly laid back when it comes to this. I don't hear stories of people getting fired because they couldn't make it to work due to the C-Train breaking down. Most places are pretty understanding and "working from home" (or an unplanned flex day) is an option for most of us.

[J-D]

Originally Posted by freeweed

AgentGibb, I couldn't have said it better.

Good to hear they had an announcement at the departing stations at least. With that info, I'd have turned around and gone straight home, and worked from home that day. I remember several times standing around Crowfoot for at least half an hour with no trains, and FINALLY they come on with an announcement - by that point I'm halfway planning on heading home anyway. There's nothing more frustrating than a complete information black hole - if you know service is disrupted, TELL US. CT is slowly getting better at this, thankfully.

I think what this really shows (and what some of us have known for a while now) is that LRT service has changed in Calgary. It's no longer "just an alternative to the bus or driving". It is a critical piece of civic infrastructure. Any disruption to it affects tens of thousands of people. Possibly more than any other single thing - if Deerfoot has issues, at least cars can do on different roads. But the LRT is a massive single point of failure that has cascading affects on just about everything.

The one bit of good news that I do notice every time is that corporate Calgary is fairly laid back when it comes to this. I don't hear stories of people getting fired because they couldn't make it to work due to the C-Train breaking down. Most places are pretty understanding and "working from home" (or an unplanned flex day) is an option for most of us.

Couldn't agree more with this. I think the only problem is that while I agree that Corporate Calgary is fairly laid back when it comes to C-Train delays, in general the people who rely on Calgary Transit the most (referencing retail employees, etc) are not afforded the same luxury by their employers.

[kw5150]

Oh, those first world problems...........who gives a shit about some train delays, you all got home safely right? People complain wayyyyyyy too much about the smallest things.......do what fusili did and go grab a coffee or go have a pint somewhere.....you are going to be late anyway.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by J-D

Couldn't agree more with this. I think the only problem is that while I agree that Corporate Calgary is fairly laid back when it comes to C-Train delays, in general the people who rely on Calgary Transit the most (referencing retail employees, etc) are not afforded the same luxury by their employers.

Originally Posted by kw5150

Oh, those first world problems...........who gives a shit about some train delays, you all got home safely right? People complain wayyyyyyy too much about the smallest things.......do what fusili did and go grab a coffee or go have a pint somewhere.....you are going to be late anyway.

Assuming you can still afford that coffee, and aren't one of those retail employees who just lost their job due to circumstances entirely beyond your control. It's a good point and something that's easy to forget.

Incidentally, if people didn't complain about things, nothing would ever improve. Do you not want to see things improving in your city?

[floobie]

Originally Posted by AgentGibb

And no, saying "you should have subscribed to the twitter feed" does not make it okay. That doesn't really help someone standing in a mob waiting for a shuttle that you already know has no realistic chance of dealing with the volume in any meaningful way.

It doesn't excuse the lack of information at the stations or on buses, but I think it's worth commending on its own. I mean, they had someone on Twitter all day answering everyone's questions, telling them which busses to take, where the stops are, etc... I was pretty impressed by that.

But really, is it that unreasonable to expect people to have a bit of forethought? You know: "Hm, big weather event. Could this affect my commute? Maybe I should check the Calgary Transit webpage..."

Maybe it's just me being OCD or something...

[fusili]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Assuming you can still afford that coffee, and aren't one of those retail employees who just lost their job due to circumstances entirely beyond your control. It's a good point and something that's easy to forget.

Incidentally, if people didn't complain about things, nothing would ever improve. Do you not want to see things improving in your city?

There are definitely lots of ways we can improve. But any employer who reprimands an employee for being late due to a public transit emergency is a complete jackass and should have the book thrown at them. But this will never happen.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Assuming you can still afford that coffee, and aren't one of those retail employees who just lost their job due to circumstances entirely beyond your control. It's a good point and something that's easy to forget.

Incidentally, if people didn't complain about things, nothing would ever improve. Do you not want to see things improving in your city?

Just relax already. No one could predict windows getting blown out of buildings and the ctrain closing. Get over it. Like I said: first world problems.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

Just relax already. No one could predict windows getting blown out of buildings and the ctrain closing. Get over it. Like I said: first world problems.

So because we're not starving in our streets, we should never try to make things work well? I'm not really sure I can even play Devil's Advocate to this kind of apathy.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

any employer who reprimands an employee for being late due to a public transit emergency is a complete jackass and should have the book thrown at them. But this will never happen.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who believe "hey, we had some bad weather, you should have been on top of it and left 3 hours earlier knowing there's a chance the train might be delayed". I'm not exaggerating either, I've worked for the type. And unfortunately employment law allows them to be this way.

Not to pick on another poster, because I do find that being informed is a responsible thing to do. But I don't know that it's reasonable to expect everyone to try to keep up with the latest proprietary fad technology just because our civic services can't seem to understand common sense. If those electronic signs were installed without the ability to update their message within about 30 seconds, someone should be fired, period. That should have been the FIRST thing in the design scope.

And drivers should have been telling everyone boarding feeder buses (all buses, really) that the system was essentially down to a large degree. I know full well that CT can send out a broadcast radio message to them at any time. It also would have been nice to give a REALISTIC measure of when trains would be operating again. Enmax had all sorts of line testing issues as a result of the storm, delaying the return of service. Fine, I get that. But allow for that! Tell people "we're doing our best, but it's very possible trains won't be in the downtown core until well after rush hour". Stop trying to hide the problem by saying things will be fine, and then coming up with unchallengeable excuses after the fact. Just give us a worse case/realistic case scenario and let us make up our own minds.

I see this crap in the corporate world all the time and it's infuriating. No one's willing to share bad news, but everyone sure is willing to annoy and inconvenience people and then try to cover their asses. Let's just say that while yesterday certainly seemed better than some other "impossible to predict freak occurrences", the way things were handled seems almost a textbook example of the way mismanagement happens in large corporations. And there's zero need for things to be this way.

/rant off

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by freeweed

So because we're not starving in our streets, we should never try to make things work well? I'm not really sure I can even play Devil's Advocate to this kind of apathy.

I really get tired when people use 'question statements' that basically put words in people mouths. "So because we're not starving in our streets, we should never try to make things work well?" Instead of sounding like one of Rick Bell's newest posts in the sun, maybe you should try a new angle? I just think there are better things to complain and worry about than a delay on system that isn't even finished yet. Calgary has grown so quickly and TOO MUCH is expected of it lately. Learn to let it go......its very calming!

.....moving on.

[DarkKeyo]

Originally Posted by kw5150

I really get tired when people use 'question statements' that basically put words in people mouths. "So because we're not starving in our streets, we should never try to make things work well?" Instead of sounding like one of Rick Bell's newest posts in the sun, maybe you should try a new angle? I just think there are better things to complain and worry about than a delay on system that isn't even finished yet. Calgary has grown so quickly and TOO MUCH is expected of it lately. Learn to let it go......its very calming!

.....moving on.

Wrong.

Freeweed is right. We should be looking at ways to learn from this, and change how we do things, so that we are prepared for next time.

Communication, including signs, announcements, drivers telling people alternate routes, the internet, all of them left something to be desired, but all of them, in my experience yesterday, were better than anything I remember from previous major delays. So, I think we should communicate back with what was done right, and wrong. If you think of that as complaining, don't post.

I also agree that this points out huge flaws in trying to put SETWAY in place of a corridor where demand warrants LRT. I also think this illustrates all the weaknesses that 7th Ave has, that haven't really been fixed over the years I've lived here. Including the ability of places like Sunnyside, Lions Park, Erlton, Bridgeland, being able to function as the end of a line. We should look at spending a bit of time and money working these bugs out of the system.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by DarkKeyo

Wrong.

Freeweed is right. We should be looking at ways to learn from this, and change how we do things, so that we are prepared for next time.

Communication, including signs, announcements, drivers telling people alternate routes, the internet, all of them left something to be desired, but all of them, in my experience yesterday, were better than anything I remember from previous major delays. So, I think we should communicate back with what was done right, and wrong. If you think of that as complaining, don't post.

I also agree that this points out huge flaws in trying to put SETWAY in place of a corridor where demand warrants LRT. I also think this illustrates all the weaknesses that 7th Ave has, that haven't really been fixed over the years I've lived here. Including the ability of places like Sunnyside, Lions Park, Erlton, Bridgeland, being able to function as the end of a line. We should look at spending a bit of time and money working these bugs out of the system.

Lol, this is ridiculous, yes I think the system could use some work......no, I dont think people should jump to conclusions and start pointing fingers and getting angry....it gets us nowhere. I get really tired of the negativity towards something that has provided great service to millions of Calgarians since the late 80s/ early nineties........ Im in the design industry, of course I think the system could run more efficiently!!!!!!!!!! I just dont jump on the negativity bandwagon with the rest of the angry mob. I am more likely to be sitting on a patio watching the angry mob go by until I find out the real facts.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DarkKeyo

I also think this illustrates all the weaknesses that 7th Ave has, that haven't really been fixed over the years I've lived here. Including the ability of places like Sunnyside, Lions Park, Erlton, Bridgeland, being able to function as the end of a line. We should look at spending a bit of time and money working these bugs out of the system.

I for one was a bit surprised that these stations can't function as end of lines. I'm sure in the past I've made it to Sunnyside and shuttled from there; perhaps someone can explain? Is it due to the much higher frequency of trains these days?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by kw5150

I really get tired when people use 'question statements' that basically put words in people mouths. "So because we're not starving in our streets, we should never try to make things work well?" Instead of sounding like one of Rick Bell's newest posts in the sun, maybe you should try a new angle?

You're the one who keeps repeating "first world problems" as if that means anything. Yes, we live in the first world and have things pretty good. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Just because we're in the first world doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for improvement.

The C-Train is awesome when it works - so let's make it better when it doesn't.

[5seconds]

I hope everyone with good and bad things to say about how the issue was handled will write to Calgary Transit and let them know. Complaining is one thing, but getting those comments into the hands of the people who can actually affect some change is the only way things will get better.

[email protected]

[floobie]

I agree with bits of everything here

I do agree that this isn't a massive deal. And, as my mentioning of the twitter/website stuff hopefully suggested, I do think we shouldn't just be focusing on what wasn't done perfectly. The information on the website took me all of 20 seconds to find the evening before, and I knew to expect an eventful commute. The information on the website could've been more comprehensive. It was entirely a fluke that I was directed to take the 9 bus from Brentwood. That should've been on the website. Even so, I still think they did a good job with the online portion of things. But, for clarity: This does not excuse the lack of information provided on train platforms or by bus drivers.

But, brushing off all the criticisms of the handling of the situation with "suck it up, pussy", isn't exactly constructive. Sure, it wasn't the end of the world. But, there's no reason we can't learn from the experience either.

After delays like this, I always wonder WWJD. The "J" in there is Japan. This is a question CT should be pondering as well. All because Calgary is a young, rapidly growing city doesn't mean we can't compare ourselves to the standard setter for public transit. We should commend what was done well, but learn from what could've been done better. Simple as that.

And: Any employer who gave any employee crap about arriving late because of this is a giant wang.