Google Maps is Getting Old...

[haljackey]

So I was using Google Earth the other day and noticed that K/W now has 2009 imagery.

Hopefully London's turn will come soon. You can now access B&W air photos from April 2011 on the city's website... hopefully something that up to date will replace our 2006 imagery.

[go_leafs_go02]

In other news, Google is updating Streetview within the last little while. Apparently, their vehicles have been seen driving around Hamilton within the past week or so.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by haljackey

. You can now access B&W air photos from April 2011 on the city's website....

Ya, it's cool to see what the new airport terminal expansion looks like from above. Especially when compared to the 1998 imagery!

From some hicktown one room terminal, to one at least 3x larger with 4 jet bridges in only 13 years. Pretty impressive, considering London hasn't changed dramatically population-wise in that time.

[MolsonExport]

hopefully new aerials will show that the Swastika garden of Hyde Park is no more, now that the old nazi bastard is pushing daisies.

[manny_santos]

I've been playing around with Google Mapmaker and making a few adjustments for London; namely, fixing the speed limits, and changing the designation of the roads to match what the official City of London designations are (as close as possible).

Ideally, I'd like to see the following:

City of London "Arterial" = Google "Major artery"
City of London "Primary collector" = Google "Minor artery"
City of London "Secondary collector" = Google "Local road"
City of London "Local road" = Google "Local road"

Unfortunately, higher ups at Google don't seem to care how London designates its roads. I tried to designate King Street as a "major artery" and I got a bit of a tongue-lashing from a Google moderator who thinks it is a "minor artery" - after another London member posted that he agreed with my change. I'd seriously like to know how many of these moderators have ever been to Canada, let alone London, Ontario.

I know it sounds like nit-picking, but the road designations are what are used to generate driving directions. Going from west to east through the downtown I'd rather use King Street than Dundas or York - the traffic flows better, the lights are much better synchronized. There may have been a time that one of those roads was more principal to the city than King, back when they were routes for Highway 2, but those days are long gone.

[haljackey]

Highbury (south of Hamilton) is another weird example. It's a major road in Google Maps but a freeway in Bing.

Technically its a a grade-seperated expressway so it doesn't qualify for freeway status so Google is technically right. Still, I'd like to see another classification for it as well as the VMP to make look like it has some form of a road network.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Highbury (south of Hamilton) is another weird example. It's a major road in Google Maps but a freeway in Bing.

Technically its a a grade-seperated expressway so it doesn't qualify for freeway status so Google is technically right. Still, I'd like to see another classification for it as well as the VMP to make look like it has some form of a road network.

This situation has been fixed; you can thank me for that. Google does have an Expressway designation that falls between Major Arterial and Freeway.

Now here's one that will interest go_leafs_go02 - I added a bunch of roads around the Oakridge Centre area. They approved the terminal road running from Royal York Road in between Pharma Plus and Superstore, but they denied the section leading from the Beer Store out to Oxford Street.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

This situation has been fixed; you can thank me for that. Google does have an Expressway designation that falls between Major Arterial and Freeway.

Cool! I don't see it on Google Earth yet.. perhaps it takes time to update?

Any way you can get the VMP marked as an expressway as well? That is what the route is classified as.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Now here's one that will interest go_leafs_go02 - I added a bunch of roads around the Oakridge Centre area. They approved the terminal road running from Royal York Road in between Pharma Plus and Superstore, but they denied the section leading from the Beer Store out to Oxford Street.

I re-submitted that one and got it approved. It seems that now I've been on there a little while, some of my submissions are automatically approved.

What I'd really like to see, though, is greater guidelines towards how roads should be classified. Should County Roads be classified as Regional Highways or Major Arterials? Should roads that are part of Canada's National Highway Program such as King's Highway 10 be the only National highways, or should all provincial highways including 4 and 7 be "National"?

[go_leafs_go02]

Provincial highways should be seen as national roads, although I hate our provincial highway network filled with downloaded highways.. Gonna add some map stuff later today

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Provincial highways should be seen as national roads, although I hate our provincial highway network filled with downloaded highways.. Gonna add some map stuff later today

I've submitted a few, including Highway 4 north of London (at least to Exeter), while downgrading some of those downloaded highways to Regional, such as Highway 3 between Talbotville and Leamington.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I've submitted a few, including Highway 4 north of London (at least to Exeter), while downgrading some of those downloaded highways to Regional, such as Highway 3 between Talbotville and Leamington.

Sounds right to me. All remaining provincial highways should be national (few and far between now), and all other county roads and downloaded highways should be regional instead.

I'd be fine with keeping the CORE ontario highway network pre-1997 as National instead of showing what's downloaded and what's not.

[haljackey]

I found a document that should help convince that both the VMP and Highbury Avenue should be classified as expressways:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/southont/enlargements/London.pdf (more maps here http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/l.shtml)

Highbury is an expressway from Hamilton Road to Wilton Grove Road. It has interchanges and intersections along this route but no fronting properties.

VMP is an expressway from Oxford Street to Highway 401. It has intersections along this route (+1 interchange for the 401) but no fronting properties.
-The reason why VMP isn't classified as an expressway between Huron Street and Oxford Street isn't because it narrows to two lanes here, but the fact that it includes a level rail crossing.

Hopefully that clears some things up.


Still waiting for Google to update London's 2006 imagery.

[manny_santos]

Somebody named "Angela" successfully applied to change the northbound Highbury Ave from an Expressway to a Major Arterial (while leaving the southbound lanes as an Expressway). Now it looks terrible. I have re-applied for the Expressway designation.

I seriously wonder about the people who are in charge of approving and denying these changes. I tried to designate a trailer park up in Exeter and had it denied because the moderator "couldn't find" evidence that it existed. What a load of BS. I bet these moderators have never even been to Ontario.

I've also applied for the second time to have the former CN Paynes subdivision removed from Glencoe to Paynes Mills. I know the tracks still appear on Streetview, but the tracks have been gone now for two years.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Somebody named "Angela" successfully applied to change the northbound Highbury Ave from an Expressway to a Major Arterial (while leaving the southbound lanes as an Expressway). Now it looks terrible. I have re-applied for the Expressway designation.

That's so weird. How can one direction of Highbury be an arterial and the other an expressway?

I am beginning to wonder the same myself with those in charge. It seems as they don't know the difference between expressway and freeway.
-Making Highbury and the VMP expressways not only accurately represents what they actually are, but will show in much farther zoom-outs of the area, making London appear larger.

[Simpseatles]

Google maps has also yet to include any of the roads in the massive new Innovation Industrial Park. The first stage has been finished for at least 3 years now! They seem to be relatively up to date on the new subdivisions, but not this important new industrial park, which needs to be on our map.

I also noticed that St. Thomas got their mini expressway coloured orange. I don't really think it deserves it, but if you wan't Highbury and VMP designated as expressways, than it should be to.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Google maps has also yet to include any of the roads in the massive new Innovation Industrial Park. The first stage has been finished for at least 3 years now! They seem to be relatively up to date on the new subdivisions, but not this important new industrial park, which needs to be on our map.

New developments will be added in once Google updates the imagery for London. Right now only 'best guess' lots and roads are put in, and they need a lot of verification I'd assume.

The St. Thomas Expressway should be classified as an expressway because that's what it is. If it ever gets twinned that short section will probably qualify for freeway status.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

That's so weird. How can one direction of Highbury be an arterial and the other an expressway?

I am beginning to wonder the same myself with those in charge. It seems as they don't know the difference between expressway and freeway.
-Making Highbury and the VMP expressways not only accurately represents what they actually are, but will show in much farther zoom-outs of the area, making London appear larger.

I think part of the problem is that many of us editing these maps live in London or the London area, and know the area well. The moderators likely know absolutely nothing about London or the local nuances of our transportation network.

Another problem is that something what exists on Streetview or the aerial photos is no longer what "is". It's hard to prove to a moderator in California that a railway that existed when the Streetview cameras came through has since been abandoned and ripped up.

[MolsonExport]

The space aerials are really very old. In my neighborhood, it dates from March-May 2006, which I can pinpoint from the construction of my house relative to other homes on my street/and nearby.

[haljackey]

Ok I tried to my first changes to Google Maps but received a "negative note" from two reviewers. Sour.

Manny, not sure if you know them. They were "Nancy" and "Nick C".

This is part of the reply I received. While I appreciate the lengthy comment, I don't agree with it. Terms differ from country to country.

"The thing to keep in mind here is that though Map Maker's terms for priorities sometimes overlap with official designations they are not completely synonymous. Though the MTO map may call this an expressway that doesn't necessarily mean that we consider it an expressway for our purposes... The length of road that you selected only has a ramp on on end connecting it to the freeway. We would expect to see at least a few more ramps or much more widely spaced at-grade intersections to consider this an expressway. Also, the speed, being only 80 kph for a large part, is too slow for an expressway."

"At most this could be a national highway."

Last time I checked the VMP isn't part of the National Highway system. Also all expressways in Ontario are 80-90km/h, just like the VMP.

Highbury also looks deformed right now. What is going on?

I doubt I'll ever make any map edits again. The unwillingness to replace the old with the new is startling.