DENVER | Transportation Thread

[seventwenty]

RTD delays the DUS vote:
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19396552

Although the panel appointed to evaluate the two redevelopment proposals for Denver Union Station recommended the boutique-hotel option, the Regional Transportation District board had so many questions during a nearly 3 1/2-hour executive session Tuesday night that no decision was made on the future of the historic building.
Additional information will be sought over the next two weeks. The board is scheduled to make a determination on the next steps at a special board meeting Dec. 6.


Read more: RTD board delays pivotal vote - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19396552#ixzz1eXY8deJV
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[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

RTD delays the DUS vote:
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19396552

Got to let the public have it's 'Black Friday' Sales and get the Broncos to 6-5 and then the planned decision will be less news.

Still too many people angry at what's happened with Denver Union Station, the moneys for Fastracks etc.

Yupper, they will make the decision in a whimper.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

RTD delays the DUS vote:
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19396552

It's good, I think, that they take a little extra time to, in effect, acknowledge the desire of those that wanted a more open area etc. In the end, I'm guessing they still go with the panel's recommendation.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

It's good, I think, that they take a little extra time to, in effect, acknowledge the desire of those that wanted a more open area etc. In the end, I'm guessing they still go with the panel's recommendation.

So this is what choice they have:

1.) A company which was given the responsibility to develop this area years ago says "hey we have a great idea on how to redevelop this station" after RTD essentially yanked the redevelopment from them to ask for specific requests for proposals. Now says "public market" "grand lobby" "lots of people coming through". Given what they've turned their original proposal for the area around Union Station has become those will likely be a Chili's-to-go, a hot dog stand and the same people there after they are done as are there now.

2.) A company lead by the person who saved an entire block of historic Denver architecture, turned it from an abandoned, crime ridden blight into Larimer Square.

Wow.. yeah I can see why this is SUCH a difficult brain teaser type choice for RTD..

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

So this is what choice they have:

1.) A company which was given the responsibility to develop this area years ago says "hey we have a great idea on how to redevelop this station" after RTD essentially yanked the redevelopment from them to ask for specific requests for proposals. Now says "public market" "grand lobby" "lots of people coming through". Given what they've turned their original proposal for the area around Union Station has become those will likely be a Chili's-to-go, a hot dog stand and the same people there after they are done as are there now.

2.) A company lead by the person who saved an entire block of historic Denver architecture, turned it from an abandoned, crime ridden blight into Larimer Square.

Wow.. yeah I can see why this is SUCH a difficult brain teaser type choice for RTD..

Well said, sir.

The issue to parties involved is timing. When can the decision be made with the least public reaction. The parties involved, RTD, and, private partners, are highly sophisticated players of the public mood. I suspect that based upon how many decisions have been made on the basis of 'back room' power broker discussions over the years with Fastracks, TRex, the DUS line, the DUS Developement, etc., that this type of choice making is the rule.

The 6/6 RTD Board tie is comical: the old 'we truly care, and, it's so difficult for us' gambit.

Remember, all parties who made big bucks in this wierd public-private hybrid will want public praise and recognition inspite of the mess the public is left with, for power brokers, IMO, have only one weakness: their profound egoes.Part of 'pulling something off' is the applause they seek from the 'stupid masses' they fooled.

[wong21fr]

Wizened,

The Illuminati called me, it's time for you to go.

Sorry bud.

[Fritzdude]

Wizened: Sounds like you've been wearing the tinfoil hat again.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

Remember, all parties who made big bucks in this wierd public-private hybrid will want public praise and recognition inspite of the mess the public is left with, for power brokers, IMO, have only one weakness: their profound egoes.Part of 'pulling something off' is the applause they seek from the 'stupid masses' they fooled.

I think you're half right....the masses as most recently evidenced in Highlands are fanatically, devotedly, almost religiously stupid.

The RTD board comes from the masses too though.. the fact that they can't see the choice they are presented with (6 of them at least anyway) isn't a conspiracy. It's that they are just stupid as well. Imbeciles are usually lead by imbeciles. In a city that can't be bothered to participate in its own governance until after the fact, in a state that ranks 2nd in the nation in not vaccinating its children.... we no longer live in Colorado... welcome to Colassippi.

[blm3034L!fe]

Has anyone heard anything about the DIA Commuter Rail line? Or the Bridge and Hotel development? I find it a little strange that they dug the pit and have a ton of excavating equipement out there and nothing is being developed?

I know the Bridge over 470 or Pena was an issue for some time, but I swear in the last month or so I read in the Post that the issue has been resolved with the designer of the fly over?

Maybe the DIA Line isn't scheduled to go into full construction until 2012? I am still a firm believer that Denver will end up hosting the 2022 Winter Olympics. That being a very real possibility I feel the DIA Line will be crucial for the success of this City during such an event! And it would be better to have it in place and up and running a few years prior to the world coming to the City.

Especially if they need to make any adjustments or tweeks to the 25 mile line. RTD Needs to get their ass in gear already!

[The Dirt]

I've seen a ton of activity all along Smith Road for the last 3 months. I heard that it'll take about a year just to move the utilities along the Pena stretch.

[BrennanW]

I think right now they are primarily doing site preparation for heavy construction. Since this project has been handed over to private partners we'll have to see what they do with the missing pieces.

[dmintz]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19616504

All of Interstate 225 will be three lanes each way by spring of 2014, but light rail through the congested corridor could still be a long way down the road.

The bid process for widening the final stretch of four-lane highway to six lanes — from South Parker Road to East Mississippi Avenue — was recently advertised. A contract is expected to be awarded by March, said Tom Tobiassen, an RTD board member who represents Aurora.

The Regional Transportation District will contribute about $90 million to the project, and about $20 million will come from the Colorado Department of Transportation.

How is it that RTD is spending 90 million to widen the highway but can't afford to complete the lightrail? I thought RTD was responsible for public transportation not highways?

[SnyderBock]

The $90 million RTD contribution, was to expand Light Rail from 9 mile station, to the new Illiff Station. So about a 2 mile extension of the existing Light Rail line on I-225. The Light Rail is heavily intregrated with teh highway here, so it is a joint project between RTD and CDOT, from what I understand.

[The Dirt]

Does anyone know why the Feds didn't provide the funds?

[bunt_q]

Because the funding is very competitive, and a two station extension of the 225 line...well...isn't.

[bobg]

The federal grant would fund the Florida extension only. The Illiff extension is coming from the 90 million from RTD that is part of their spread the wealth around to individual corridors decision on what to do with the "leftover" money after Eagle P3.

The 2035 projected boardings at Florida are abysmally low which is likely why they didn't get it. The I225 extension stations that have major bus/rail transfers (Peoria, City Center, Montview, Colfax, and Illiff) and/or are within walking distance of Fitzsimons (Montview and Colfax) have about 95% projected boardings on the extension (not surprisingly). That makes the stations of 2nd/Abilene, 13th Avenue and Florida tough to justify on an individual basis.

To top it off Florida doesn't even have the minimum suburban amenity of a planned parking lot dedicated for a park and ride so most of it's boardings are projected to come from people working in the surrounding office parks who are brave and dedicated enough to cut across wide roads and private parking lots in order to take transit. I wonder what the cost would have been to extend it one more stop beyond Florida to City Center and what that would have done to to the cost benefit equation in the grant application as the Florida stop was likely just the outcome of politics.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by bobg

The federal grant would fund the Florida extension only. The Illiff extension is coming from the 90 million from RTD that is part of their spread the wealth around to individual corridors decision on what to do with the "leftover" money after Eagle P3.

The 2035 projected boardings at Florida are abysmally low which is likely why they didn't get it. The I225 extension stations that have major bus/rail transfers (Peoria, City Center, Montview, Colfax, and Illiff) and/or are within walking distance of Fitzsimons (Montview and Colfax) have about 95% projected boardings on the extension (not surprisingly). That makes the stations of 2nd/Abilene, 13th Avenue and Florida tough to justify on an individual basis.

To top it off Florida doesn't even have the minimum suburban amenity of a planned parking lot dedicated for a park and ride so most of it's boardings are projected to come from people working in the surrounding office parks who are brave and dedicated enough to cut across wide roads and private parking lots in order to take transit. I wonder what the cost would have been to extend it one more stop beyond Florida to City Center and what that would have done to to the cost benefit equation in the grant application as the Florida stop was likely just the outcome of politics.

There shouldn't even be a freaking stop at Florida, quite frankly. Iliff makes perfect sense, Mississippi makes sense, Alameda/City Center makes sense, of course Colfax and Montview (anything near Fitzsimmons, of course)... Why the hell there are even planned stops at Florida, 2nd/Abilene, etc., is beyond me.

Aaron (Glowrock)

edit: I actually believe that extending the 225 line just from Nine Mile to Iliff will add substantial ridership. Iliff is actually a relatively (for Aurora at least) dense street when it comes to multi-unit housing, and there are multiple bus lines along Iliff that can use it as a major transfer point. There are a good number of hotels/motels in the area as well.

[bunt_q]

Let's also keep in mind that most proposals in this TIGER round *didn't* get funded. There were 828 applications for over $14 billion. Only 46 projects ($511 million) got funded. RTD was asking for $66 million for ~500 boardings per day (at completion of the line; certainly fewer initially). Realistically, that application wasn't worth the stamp it cost to send it in; it had no business winning.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by glowrock

There shouldn't even be a freaking stop at Florida, quite frankly. Iliff makes perfect sense, Mississippi makes sense, Alameda/City Center makes sense, of course Colfax and Montview (anything near Fitzsimmons, of course)... Why the hell there are even planned stops at Florida, 2nd/Abilene, etc., is beyond me.

Aaron (Glowrock)

edit: I actually believe that extending the 225 line just from Nine Mile to Iliff will add substantial ridership. Iliff is actually a relatively (for Aurora at least) dense street when it comes to multi-unit housing, and there are multiple bus lines along Iliff that can use it as a major transfer point. There are a good number of hotels/motels in the area as well.

You, like many of us who write here, use logic.

Our universe*, however, is run by politics, not reason.

The physical results of planning are the result of the use power, not the acceptance of reasoned argument....



*The entire collection of the public and the private aspects of transportation.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

RTD was asking for $66 million

If RTD thought anybody was going to get $66 million in this TIGER round then RTD's grant writers are woefully incompetent. I could have told you that application was a waste of time.