Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Jstaleness]

Correct me if I missed it but I didn't see one example that included a running track. That's a good thing.

Too bad the main chat was down. Craig if you see this are you able to have it working for the next session?

[MonctonRad]

4,000 posts!

The Halifax Stadium Discussion Thread is more active than any of the city threads in the Atlantic Section of SSP (except for Moncton and Saint John).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

4,000 posts!

The Halifax Stadium Discussion Thread is more active than any of the city threads in the Atlantic Section of SSP (except for Moncton and Saint John).

The whole Atlantic section is actually one of the larger subforums on SSP now. It has shot past Manitoba and Saskatchewan and soon may contain more posts than City Photos.

[beyeas]

What will be apparently quite crucial is whether other money gets put on the table in the next few weeks. From what ANS has been saying, if the other (roughly) $40M doesn't get put forward by most likely a combo of the feds/prov and maybe private interests, then that will give the automatic out to city council to park the FIFA concept and shelve this current plan.

Obviously the next few weeks are going to be key, because if council doesn't vote to move it forward after this phase 2 report (which they won't apparently if the other money doesn't appear) then they will have to back out of the FIFA participation. Having said that, I won't be 100% upset by that, given that as Fenwick has mentioned in the other stadium thread this seems to be getting rail-roaded into a small community stadium concept and seems a done deal no matter what the faux public consultation says. Say what you want about the final library project, no one ever got the feeling during that that the public consultation wasn't being taken into account.

[someone123]

I think this event could be okay but I am starting to think that the best case is actually to kill FIFA but keep the stadium concept alive. What's key is that the consultation and planning process needs to move back a step or two and then continue to the point where it's done properly by the time the next opportunity comes along.

Council really sets itself up for failure by opportunistically jumping on these things and then discarding all the work that is done when they fail.

[fenwick16]

If this is going to crash and burn then I hope it will crash and burn with a 18,000 - 20,000 permanent seat stadium proposal with most of the seats along the sidelines. Maybe a minor miracle will occur and the provincial government, federal government and private sector will like it better than the 10K-12K concept.

I feel quite sure that since MP Peter MacKay is a CFL fan that he would prefer the larger stadium proposal (he keeps stating that he wants a "major" stadium in the Halifax area). I have even read that Premier Darrell Dexter is a sports fan (basketball) and was born in Halifax, so maybe an economical 18K - 20K stadium proposal will sway him in the right direction.

Regarding naming rights, I am sure companies will pay more for naming rights to a large stadium than a small community stadium.

If a 18K-20K permanent seat stadium is proposed then there is absolutely no reason that it can't be used for community sports, any less than a 10K-12K stadium can be. A 18K-20K permanent seat stadium should certainly be suitable for FIFA even with all the seats along the sideline instead of on 4 sides which decreases the expansion capability and makes it less useful for Canadian football.

[halifaxboyns]

I found this image in the landsdowne park thread in Ottawa - I wanted to post it to just point out that the existing field is covered in a temporary structure. I would assume it's being used for football or some other purpose for winter time? But goes to show that despite the cold an outdoor stadium (much like what is being proposed for HRM) can have some purposes.

For some reason I can't get the photo to paste; but here is the link.

[-Harlington-]

Conference Board sees CFL potential in Halifax





November 22, 2011 - 7:03pm By BILL POWER Business Reporter


Halifax might have to huddle with Moncton to create a viable CFL franchise for Atlantic Canada, the Conference Board of Canada said Tuesday.

The organization identified Halifax as one of six Canadian cities with the corporate strength and high disposable per capita income required to support a new professional football franchise, but it said regional support would be required to bring the CFL to the East Coast.

“Would Moncton support a franchise in Halifax, or vice versa? This is a good question because, before getting two teams in the region, you have to start with one team,” analyst Mario Lefebvre said in a phone interview from Montreal.

“For both Halifax and Moncton, the local markets alone are not large enough to ensure long-term viability. If and when a team comes to the Maritimes, its owners will have to work especially hard to market the team as a regional franchise.”

Lefebvre said the widespread support the Regina-based Saskatchewan Roughriders receive across that province is a successful model for a franchise in Atlantic Canada.

“Across Saskatchewan, the Roughriders are viewed as the province’s team,” he said.

The Conference Board of Canada, which is described as an “independent, not-for-profit applied research organization” on its website, said Moncton has an advantage in attracting a CFL franchise since that city has a stadium in place that could be modified to CFL standards.

Talks to build a stadium are in the preliminary stages in Halifax.

The CFL analysis was released in advance of Sunday’s Grey Cup game to spark debate in communities across Canada about the possibilities of bringing in a franchise. It is the 11th in a Conference Board series about professional sports in Canada.

“A large stadium increases the overall well-being of a community; it can be used for competitive events and for concerts,” said Lefebvre.

The CFL is currently an eight-team operation, but the league plans to add a franchise in Ottawa within a couple of years. The Montreal Alouettes are the closest team to Atlantic Canada.

Besides the Halifax-Moncton scenario and Ottawa, the Conference Board also identified Quebec City, London, Ont., and the Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge area in Ontario as having the features to support a franchise.

“In Quebec City, people are focused on attracting an NHL franchise, so this might give Atlantic Canada an edge in attracting the CFL,” said Lefebvre.

The Conference Board also cited a corporate presence in Halifax that could be tapped for sponsorships and high-end ticket prices.

Halifax regional council has a steering committee assessing a stadium suitable for hosting FIFA Women’s World Cup matches in 2015, and that committee is scheduled to present its findings Dec. 6 at city hall.

“We have not considered a CFL franchise specifically, but we are looking at an expandable facility that would have legacy value to the community,” committee chairwoman Kim Mason said in an interview.

She said the presentation by the steering committee to regional council will include recommendations relating to the site and design of a stadium and some discussion of the services such a facility could provide to the community.

([email protected])

[RyeJay]

If Halifax must huddle with Moncton to get a CFL franchise, then I suggest Halifax names its stadium the Maritime Stadium. Although 'Atlantic' Stadium is suitable as well, municipal ego, I think, is something we need to be aware of if Halifax and Moncton are to work together and be somewhat satisfied with the results.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

If Halifax must huddle with Moncton to get a CFL franchise, then I suggest Halifax names its stadium the Maritime Stadium. Although 'Atlantic' Stadium is suitable as well, municipal ego, I think, is something we need to be aware of if Halifax and Moncton are to work together and be somewhat satisfied with the results.

If Moncton must huddle with Halifax to secure a Maritime CFL franchise, then it becomes blatantly clear that the only acceptable location for the stadium is in Glenholme.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If Moncton must huddle with Halifax to secure a Maritime CFL franchise, then it becomes blatantly clear that the only acceptable location for the stadium is in Glenholme.

I wonder how many people will have to googlemap this...

Though the town of Truro would appreciate this location, the stadium wouldn't. Neither would the cows.

Halifax and Moncton cooperating on this isn't a bad thing. With enough support from the entire Maritimes, a team can be supported. It makes sense to host the first Maritime team in Halifax, not just because of the larger financial nest but because Moncton will then be in a great position to mull over Halifax's success (or failure) in hosting a team. Moncton will be able to decide if there's enough popularity to host their own team, which means investing in UdeM stadium renovations. If there isn't enough popularity, then the city may avoid a poor investment.

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

If Halifax must huddle with Moncton to get a CFL franchise, then I suggest Halifax names its stadium the Maritime Stadium. Although 'Atlantic' Stadium is suitable as well, municipal ego, I think, is something we need to be aware of if Halifax and Moncton are to work together and be somewhat satisfied with the results.

I say it should be "ATLANTIC STADIUM"....... at the very least it presents well as an area concept.

Team Name - Atlantic Storm

Ride the Wave!
Go Storm!

The Storm is Coming!

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

I say it should be "ATLANTIC STADIUM"....... at the very least it presents well as an area concept.

Team Name - Atlantic Storm

Ride the Wave!
Go Storm!

The Storm is Coming!

I think your forum name is self-evident enough as to your vote on this subject.

"...it presents well as an area concept," you say?..

Yes, the stadium is beside the 'Atlantic' Ocean, inside 'Atlantic' Canada, which operates under 'Atlantic' standard time--but instead of restating your preferred stadium name infommerical-style, what are your thoughts as to the reason for having the stadium named the Maritime Stadium?

Atlantic is broad, while Maritime is more specfic. If Moncton and Halifax are to work together to get a CFL franchise, would this more specfic stadium name be more appropriate?

[ATL Stadium]

The Stadium seems to have hit the funding road block.... and it seems to rest entirely on the NS Provincial Government!.

HRM has said yes to 1/3 of Aprox. 60 million....(if the others are in)

I feel there has been enough on the Federal dialogue that FIFA is a fundable project being an amateur sport event. So with support from Peter McKay this end of the puzzle looks very favorable yet not totally signed, sealed nor delivered.

Again it seems the Dexter Gov't will have to change its mind on this for it go forward in funding at the Provincial level.

Dexter (not that he is the only person in Govt) has said "No" then "Not at this time".....hoping that means the next progression is "we will consider it" and then "Yes we are in for a third" !!!

Any thoughts on that?


ATLANTIC STADIUM ~ Atlantic Storm ~ Ride the Wave!

[ATL Stadium]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I think your forum name is self-evident enough as to your vote on this subject.

"...it presents well as an area concept," you say?..

Yes, the stadium is beside the 'Atlantic' Ocean, inside 'Atlantic' Canada, which operates under 'Atlantic' standard time--but instead of restating your preferred stadium name infommerical-style, what are your thoughts as to the reason for having the stadium named the Maritime Stadium?

Atlantic is broad, while Maritime is more specfic. If Moncton and Halifax are to work together to get a CFL franchise, would this more specfic stadium name be more appropriate?

I dont need to restate anything....just stating!

ATLANTIC is more inclusive than Maritime........ if you want to state why you think it should be only the Maritimes go ahead....the four Atlantic Provinces would be a much broader base so why not include all of them?.....even though NL was a late comer to Canada they are still in.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

I dont need to restate anything....just stating!

ATLANTIC is more inclusive than Maritime........ if you want to state why you think it should be only the Maritimes go ahead....the four Atlantic Provinces would be a much broader base so why not include all of them?.....even though NL was a late comer to Canada they are still in.

Even though you feel you had no need to explain, thank you for explaining.

Perhaps we should go even broader: Eastern Stadium. We cannot forget how vitally important Ontario and Quebec are to Canada... and after all, apparently inclusion of confederated provinces is the measure by which we name our sports stadiums.

Or, we could be a bit more business sensitive in this case. I'm flattered by Newfoundland and Labrador's likely or unlikely enthusiasim for a stadium located thousands of kms away from them, but I think people from Moncton and Halifax, and indeed the broader Maritimes, will be the main contributors.

[Josh M]

Originally Posted by ATL Stadium

I dont need to restate anything....just stating!

ATLANTIC is more inclusive than Maritime........ if you want to state why you think it should be only the Maritimes go ahead....the four Atlantic Provinces would be a much broader base so why not include all of them?.....even though NL was a late comer to Canada they are still in.

I don't see why Newfoundland would be included in this, they're over a thousand km away, different time zone, not even connected by land, and don't watch the same news as us.

[Mattyyy]

You guys seem so confident that you're an absolute shoe-in for a CFL team I figured I'd post a recent article you missed! Being the larger city isn't the only factor in considering a team - mostly which your argument is centered around. It's simply like stating you're the largest kid on the playground, therefore you get whatever you want.


Report puts Moncton ahead of Halifax for CFL team
CBC News
Posted: Nov 22, 2011

Playing in the Big Leagues report

Moncton Stadium hosted the Toronto Argonauts and Edmonton Eskimos last year in a game that sold out in just 36 hours.Moncton Stadium hosted the Toronto Argonauts and Edmonton Eskimos last year in a game that sold out in just 36 hours. Andrew Vaughan/Canadian Press

The Conference Board of Canada has Moncton edging out Halifax for a Canadian Football League franchise in an assessment of potential future markets released Tuesday.

It contends six cities have the necessary economic market conditions to make CFL teams viable — Moncton, Halifax, Ottawa, London, Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, and Quebec City.

The CFL, currently an eight-team operation, already plans to expand by adding a franchise in Ottawa over the next couple of years.

The Conference Board believes Quebec City would be next in line, based on its population, income and corporate headquarters.

But Quebec is focusing on getting a National Hockey League team. It is therefore less likely that resources can be directed toward the goal of obtaining a CFL franchise, at least over the next few years, according to the report, called "Playing in the Big Leagues: Briefing 11 – Fantasy Football! How many Teams Could there Be in the Canadian Football League?"

Neither Moncton nor Halifax have the population base required to ensure long-term viability of a franchise at about 125,000 and 400,000 respectively, according to the board.

'With its central location, a team based in Moncton could benefit from the support of the entire province of New Brunswick and much of the rest of Atlantic Canada.'—Conference Board of Canada report

"If a franchise does come to the Maritimes, its owners will have to work hard to market the team as a regional franchise—one that can attract fans from the neighbouring provinces as well, and do so on an ongoing basis," the report states.

But the board notes that Moncton has gained the nickname of "Hub City" because of its central location in the region.

"With its central location, a team based in Moncton could benefit from the support of the entire province of New Brunswick (with a population of more than 750,000) and much of the rest of Atlantic Canada," the report states.

Moncton also has a playing facility that is almost CFL-ready, Moncton Stadium, located at the University of Moncton campus, which has hosted CFL regular season games the past two years.

"For these reasons, the Conference Board sees Moncton as having an edge in obtaining a CFL franchise for Atlantic Canada," the report states.

Meanwhile, although the board's analysis suggests London has more in its favour than Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, it says both cities are within a couple of hours' drive of two existing CFL teams in Hamilton and Toronto, as well as two National Football League teams in Buffalo and Detroit.

As a result, another CFL franchise in Southern Ontario is unlikely because it could take the area beyond its "football saturation point," it states.

According to the board, a professional sports franchise can be successful over the long run in a specific market if four market conditions are met:

A large enough and growing population
A relatively wealthy market
A sound corporate presence
A level playing field

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/11/22/nb-conference-board-cfl-league.html

[cormiermax]

What a crap joke article, what the hell is the Conference Board of Canada? They clearly have no idea what they're talking about. Just because Moncton calls it's self the "Hub City" means its more viable than a much larger Halifax? And are they really saying New Brunswick would better support a team than Nova Scotia? Is this organization based in Moncton or something??

Halifax could accommodate a CFL team with its 1-2 hour regional base. Moncton you need too include Halifax for it too make any sense.

That article is such a farce its not even funny.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

You guys seem so confident that you're an absolute shoe-in for a CFL team I figured I'd post a recent article you missed! Being the larger city isn't the only factor in considering a team - mostly which your argument is centered around. It's simply like stating you're the largest kid on the playground, therefore you get whatever you want.

Nobody missed it, it was posted on here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=153061&page=41

Explain their logic here:

Neither Moncton nor Halifax have the population base required to ensure long-term viability of a franchise at about 125,000 and 400,000 respectively, according to the board.

2010 population estimates:
Halifax 403,000
Regina 215,000

Do the math.

No go back to drinking your special kool-aid and eating dancing bananas with the rest up there in Moncton. Call me when you get an CFL owner lined up...