The Official PEI Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by pei guy

I think the retail market in Charlottetown is certainly picking up speed. Buchanan Drive is expanding and will be getting even more stores when Sobeys moves to Spencer Drive. Spencer Drive Plaza will be a very important addition to shopping in Ch'town.

There are also new smaller stores all over the metro area. If the new development mentioned by billy1 in East Royalty is commercial, it could be very good for that whole area. I could see a large grocery store, hardware store and a few smaller basic stores and restaurants (Tim Hortons has been rumoured, and perhaps Subway).

The next few years should be exciting for commercial development. I'm really pumped to see Spencer Drive fill up with new stores!

While it is good to see more national retailers moving to the city, it is unfortunately also true that this will put increased pressure on the independent retailers in the downtown core. This is unfortunate. The independents make shopping on the Island unique, and is a big reason why my wife likes to go over there occasionally to look around. I don't think anyone would want to see the core emptied out, like it is in a lot of North American cities (including Moncton).

[mmmatt]

Anyone know whats happening to Stratford Rd in Stratford? is it just drainage improvements, or are they widening it?

[braymondg]

GAP ADDITION

Here is a photo of the addition. I was in GAP this afternoon and it was packed.
In fact all the stores were very busy.

[OttawaJL]

It's crazy the amount of commercial/retail space that is coming to Charlottetown in a relatively short amount of time! It's great

I also really like the idea of the waterfront development. I hope it gets approved in the near future.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by braymondg

I was in GAP this afternoon and it was packed.
In fact all the stores were very busy.

Thats interesting, because judging from all the PEI plates in Moncton on saturday I would have assumed Charlottetown was empty!

in other news:

Dominos Pizza just made a huge move (across the street) on University Ave.

[pei guy]

I was in Charlottetown the other day and noticed a new billboard on Grafton across from the new Holland College campus. It was for a new residential building called The East Grafton, and from the rendering on the billboard I counted at least 7 stories!!!

It also said Occupation Fall 2012, so they should get started soon!

Location on Google (the two buildings along Grafton in the centre):

http://g.co/maps/4gfvg

[Chadillaccc]

That's great news for Charlottetown!

Any renderings for the building available?

[billy1]

I saw the sign today as well.

It looks like 7 floors and states occupancy Fall 2013. I'm guessing they will be starting construction early summer 2012.

The existing buildings appear to be vacant now, so demolition will be the first thing to happen.

[braymondg]

Yep, I saw it too. It is 7 floors and looks like a nice building. Condo like in design. Better than that building on North River Rd with it's shingled roof and multi coloured siding. It's about time someone started building condos and apartments like they should.
Only thing about this is, I bet it will shot down by the residences over the same issue. You hear it all the time, "It's too high!!!"

Hope it's a go!

[pei guy]

Toys R Us 'R' coming; Costco 'R' not

Published on November 25, 2011
Dave Stewart

It appears Toys 'R' Us is coming to Charlottetown but Costco is not.

A mix of rumours and fact continues to swirl around two significant retail projects in the capital city, both being developed by Plazacorp Retail Properties Ltd.

One of them is the Spencer Drive Plaza, currently under construction next to Boston Pizza, while the other is the building currently occupied by Sobey's on Buchanan Drive.

Rumours continue to point to Toys 'R' Us setting up shop in Charlottetown.

Charlottetown developer Tim Banks tweeted on Friday: "I understand that Toys 'R' Us will be moving into what will be the former Sobey's once Sobey's moves into their new building in West Royalty,'' Banks said.

Michael Zakuta, president of Plazacorp, would not confirm or deny the possibility of Toys 'R' Us coming to the P.E.I. capital, explaining that retailers prefer to make their own announcements.

Zakuta did put one rumour to rest - Costco will not be opening a store in the Spencer Drive or Buchanan Drive plazas.

"I just laugh at that (rumour). It would be a pretty small Costco. How big is a Costco store? It's over 100,000 square feet. Our whole project is 100,000 square feet. It doesn't quite fit."

There's also no truth to rumours that IKEA is coming (they're not even in Atlantic Canada yet).

There was some talk about Mark's Work Wearhouse moving out to Buchanan or Spencer Drive but plans have changed.

"They are staying put,'' Zakuta said. "We offered it to them (and) they entertained it . . . but they are staying put.''

Pet Smart is another confirmed retailer for Spencer Drive while sources say Starbucks, Quiznos and Montana's (a family restaurant) are also in the mix. Princess Auto is also believed to be coming.

Sobey's, the main tenant at Spencer Drive, will open in May in the first phase of Plazacorp's plans for the immediate area. More stores will open as the year goes on.

Once Sobey's moves out of Buchanan Drive, work will begin immediately on splitting the building into five separate stores. One major retailer will anchor that plaza and if Banks is to be believed it will be Toys 'R' Us.

Zakuta wouldn't even say how big that anchor tenant would be since releasing square footage information might shed some light on things.

The Guardian did contact Toys 'R' Us but the retailer did not offer any comment.

Zakuta said the whole idea is to bring in retailers that are not currently serving Charlottetown.

"We're trying to bring new names to Charlottetown,'' Zakuta said. "We want to provide better shopping opportunities so people don't have to drive to Moncton or Halifax and we'd like to give summer tourists something as well.

"Charlottetown is underrated as a retail market. That's been our experience.''

Plazacorp is currently in talks with two major restaurants for the Spencer Drive location but he wouldn't comment on whether one of them is Montana's. Nor would he shed any light on when deals would be finalized.

At the Spencer Drive location, Sobey's will be 52,000 square feet; another retailer will measure approximately 20,000 square feet while the third largest business will come in at 12,000 square feet. The restaurant will be a stand-alone location and work has yet to start on that building.

There have also been rumours about Empire Theatres jumping in but Zakuta doubts they'll come calling.

"I would be really surprised. I believe they would have a long-term lease in their existing premises. I would be very doubtful that they are a player . . . it doesn't fit our style of project.''

The next phase of the development will be building on the former DeBlois site. That project is expected to involve around 80,000 square feet of retail with half or close to half earmarked for a big name.

"The good news is that we're not done yet. We hope to bring some names into the market that are not in the market.''

Some interesting reading here!

[MonctonRad]

"Charlottetown is underrated as a retail market. That's been our experience.''

yes and no......

Charlottetown has a decent sized CA population of about 60,000 and is a capital city with a university and thus also has a stable economic base with a fairly high per capita income.

The problem with Charlottetown as a retail destination is that it's catchment area is essentially just the rest of PEI, and is thus limited to a population of only 140,000. The catchment area also is very rural and has a low per capita income.

Because of these factors, Charlottetown will never match Moncton or Halifax as a retail destination. There is certainly room for growth however and I wish Charlottetown well, but certain (high end) retailers will never come.

Toys R Us however would be a good fit. They are present in almost every market in the country so it stands to reason that they would also come to PEI. They are already in Halifax, Moncton, Saint John and Fredericton.

[pei guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

yes and no......

Charlottetown has a decent sized CA population of about 60,000 and is a capital city with a university and thus also has a stable economic base with a fairly high per capita income.

The problem with Charlottetown as a retail destination is that it's catchment area is essentially just the rest of PEI, and is thus limited to a population of only 140,000. The catchment area also is very rural and has a low per capita income.

Because of these factors, Charlottetown will never match Moncton or Halifax as a retail destination. There is certainly room for growth however and I wish Charlottetown well, but certain (high end) retailers will never come.

Toys R Us however would be a good fit. They are present in almost every market in the country so it stands to reason that they would also come to PEI. They are already in Halifax, Moncton, Saint John and Fredericton.

Agreed.

While there is definitely room for the market to grow in Charlottetown, once we get to a certain number of new stores it should become pretty stagnant.

I do however think that with the amount of people moving to the city, the amount of people with money to spend will increase. Either way, there will definitely be a lot of new retail popping up over the next few years.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

yes and no......

Charlottetown has a decent sized CA population of about 60,000 and is a capital city with a university and thus also has a stable economic base with a fairly high per capita income.

The problem with Charlottetown as a retail destination is that it's catchment area is essentially just the rest of PEI, and is thus limited to a population of only 140,000. The catchment area also is very rural and has a low per capita income.

Because of these factors, Charlottetown will never match Moncton or Halifax as a retail destination. There is certainly room for growth however and I wish Charlottetown well, but certain (high end) retailers will never come.

Toys R Us however would be a good fit. They are present in almost every market in the country so it stands to reason that they would also come to PEI. They are already in Halifax, Moncton, Saint John and Fredericton.

And Moncton will never match Halifax either. Not sure what your point is. The executive pointed out that Charlottetown was underrated as a retail market, and I'd be inclined to accept his market research over anyone on this board. The Charlottetown market population is really PEI (recently estimated at 147,000) and the 14,000 individuals in the Magdalen Islands.

[braymondg]

East Grafton

Sorry for the terrible picture. I was just passing by and took it with my cell phone through a windshield.

I count 8 floors. How about you?
If it goes ahead without too much opposition it will look nice coming into the city.

[braymondg]

Originally Posted by billy1

And Moncton will never match Halifax either. Not sure what your point is. The executive pointed out that Charlottetown was underrated as a retail market, and I'd be inclined to accept his market research over anyone on this board. The Charlottetown market population is really PEI (recently estimated at 147,000) and the 14,000 individuals in the Magdalen Islands.

Don't forget the hundreds of thousands of summer residences and tourists. That population triples or quadruples for 4 -5 months in the summer.

By the look of the frenzy shopping yesterday, I've never seen the Walmart packed full like that before. Anyone who joins the Spencer Dr development will do well I'm sure.

[MonctonRad]

But the summer trade only lasts two months.....

I'm a born and bred Charlottetowner (although I haven't lived there since 1979), and I am certainly not trying to put the city down. I'm just trying to be realistic.

Charlottetown's primary market is about 80,000 (Queens County), with the secondary market being all of PEI (total 145,000)

Moncton's primary market is Westmoreland/Albert/Kent (200,000), with a secondary market of all of eastern and northern NB as well as Cumberland County in NS and portions of PEI. This would total at least 500,000.

Halifax's primary market is HRM and adjacent areas of central NS (500,000). The secondary market would be all of peninsular NS (total nearly 800,000).

Some stores would appear in all these markets (Wal Mart, Home Depot, Future Shop, Toys R Us).

Other stores (H&M, Best Buy) would be willing to look at intermediate sized regional markets.

Some specialty retailers (Abercrombie, Banana Republic, Hollister) will only settle in the largest regional markets.

It's the way of the world.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

But the summer trade only lasts two months.....

I'm a born and bred Charlottetowner (although I haven't lived there since 1979), and I am certainly not trying to put the city down. I'm just trying to be realistic.

Charlottetown's primary market is about 80,000 (Queens County), with the secondary market being all of PEI (total 145,000)

Moncton's primary market is Westmoreland/Albert/Kent (200,000), with a secondary market of all of eastern and northern NB as well as Cumberland County in NS and portions of PEI. This would total at least 500,000.

Halifax's primary market is HRM and adjacent areas of central NS (500,000). The secondary market would be all of peninsular NS (total nearly 800,000).

Some stores would appear in all these markets (Wal Mart, Home Depot, Future Shop, Toys R Us).

Other stores (H&M, Best Buy) would be willing to look at intermediate sized regional markets.

Some specialty retailers (Abercrombie, Banana Republic, Hollister) will only settle in the largest regional markets.

It's the way of the world.

No one mentioned comparing Charlottetown to Moncton but you. Why does Moncton`s market always cross many counties and provinces, but no other cities does? I don`t begrudge your city at all, but some of the writings from you folks from Moncton border on the school of the `National Enquirer`

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by billy1

No one mentioned comparing Charlottetown to Moncton but you. Why does Moncton`s market always cross many counties and provinces, but no other cities does? I don`t begrudge your city at all, but some of the writings from you folks from Moncton border on the school of the `National Enquirer`

Whoa there billy!!

Like I said, I wasn't trying to slag Charlottetown, I was just trying to be realistic.

Moncton's market crosses county boundaries because it sits on the county line! Moncton is in Westmorland County but Riverview is in Albert County. Kent County lies just barely north of Sheciac and there is no large regional town in Kent County to siphon off shoppers who travel to Moncton. Summerside on the other hand is a significant regional town for Prince County on PEI. I will give you Kings County, but there are only 15,000 people living in Kings County so this would not contribute significantly to the Charlottetown market.

Moncton's secondary market crosses provincial boundaries because the NS border is only 40 minutes away. Amherst is significantly closer to Moncton than it is to Halifax. Our secondary market also encroaches on PEI because there are retailers in Moncton that don't exist on PEI and the Confederation Bridge is only an hour away. There are always lots of PEI plates in the Costco parking lot and at Champlain Place. I suspect that most of these are from western PEI.

Charlottetown's secondary market doesn't cross the bridge because the bridge toll is a significant disincentive to shoppers. Also, aside from specialty retailers in the downtown, there is no particular reason to shop in Charlottetown if you are a Monctonian. We have the same stores.

Zakuta did put one rumour to rest - Costco will not be opening a store in the Spencer Drive or Buchanan Drive plazas.

"I just laugh at that (rumour). It would be a pretty small Costco. How big is a Costco store? It's over 100,000 square feet. Our whole project is 100,000 square feet. It doesn't quite fit."

There's also no truth to rumours that IKEA is coming (they're not even in Atlantic Canada yet).

I was partly responding to this quote from the original article posted by pei guy. It mentions Costco and IKEA.

Costco is in Fredericton, so it is conceivable that it eventually could end up in Charlottetown, but Fredericton's hinterland extends up the Saint John River valley at least as far as Grand Falls and there is a fair amount of traffic between Fredericton and Saint John. I would estimate Fredericton's primary market is 100,000 and the secondary market is about 250,000. These are larger than Charlottetown's figures.

IKEA is just a pipe dream. They don't exist in the region and generally don't set up shop in cities of less than a million. Every so often there is a stupid article in the T&T about IKEA and Moncton but we all know that this will never happen. In all likelihood there will never be another IKEA in Halifax even.

Halifax has stores that don't exist in Moncton (Hollister, Banana Republic, Birks)
Moncton has stores that don't exist in Charlottetown (Costco, The Bay, H&M)
Charlottetown has stores that don't exist in Summerside (Home Depot, Bed Bath & Beyond)

Retailers respond to market conditions. They pay good money to consultants to have these analyzed.

Again, I'm from Charlottetown originally and I am not trying to put you down. There are just some fundamental truths in the world.....

[billy1]

Originally Posted by braymondg

East Grafton

Sorry for the terrible picture. I was just passing by and took it with my cell phone through a windshield.

I count 8 floors. How about you?
If it goes ahead without too much opposition it will look nice coming into the city.

Doesn't look too bad ! It would present a nice scale from the street. Hopefully we will see some construction in the next year !

[hogan2]

Originally Posted by billy1

Doesn't look too bad ! It would present a nice scale from the street. Hopefully we will see some construction in the next year !

Hope it comes with underground parking, not to many spots open around there when schools in, hopefully the students can walk the distance from the new parking lot