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  #2561  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2011, 5:52 PM
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Much as I'd like to see a Nordstrom or such, I suspect citywatch is correct in that any new big retail is likely to be of a discount nature, at least in the near term. Downtown doesn't yet have the customer base to support a higher-end department store (55,000/$83k notwithstanding), and more importantly doesn't have middle-to-higher income satellite communities not already served by Glendale or The Grove. Department stores are generally built for regional business, not local.
There's no way it will be a discount store, or they wouldn't be teasing/bragging about it, and they certainly wouldn't be persuing it; not when Broadway has entered a phase where several mid to high end restaurants will be opening their doors in the next year. A discount store is simply not congruent with the Bringing Back Broadway vision.
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  #2562  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2011, 6:22 PM
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Exactly... building something like norman foster's designs can actually enhance Union Station's beauty... if done right. If you compare the historic buildings all over london that are near or next to the shard or bullet building they actually compliment each others architecture due to being totally opposite... the architecture pops out to you more. And the master plan of union station doesnt have to be tall i was just giving an examples of how building new structures near Historic buildings don't need to stick with the same deco or mission styles to be iconic. Again the Hearst Tower in NYC is a perfect example... they didn't build a tower with the same design as the podium.. they built something looking so modern and striking, yet still have the respect for the beautifull design of the historic podium on the bottom. It can be done.
I don't want to get off subject but I have to totally disagree. What exactly does The Gherkin enhance? It made a very minimal effort to pull up themes from it's surrounding classic buildings (chiefly the Nederlandish and Renaissance Revival styles) which later surrounding buildings clearly did pick up. It is a disaster from up-close and from a distance, but that's off the subject so I won't go on.

If that's what Foster has in mind for El Pueblo and Union Station, it should be easy to eliminate him quickly.
     
     
  #2563  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2011, 6:35 PM
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btw, the link to the Times stats on income by district:

http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/income/median/neighborhood/list/

I would guess the numbers are from the 2000 census but I didn't check.
     
     
  #2564  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2011, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
There's no way it will be a discount store, or they wouldn't be teasing/bragging about it, and they certainly wouldn't be persuing it; not when Broadway has entered a phase where several mid to high end restaurants will be opening their doors in the next year. A discount store is simply not congruent with the Bringing Back Broadway vision.
Don't be so sure. If you consider the current state Broadway is in, even a Ross Dress for Less would be a huge score. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that that's what we're going to get. I raise my bet up to $10.

At the very least, we can rule out anything high-end. Saks? Nordstrom? Really?
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  #2565  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2011, 9:57 PM
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I don't want to get off subject but I have to totally disagree. What exactly does The Gherkin enhance? It made a very minimal effort to pull up themes from it's surrounding classic buildings (chiefly the Nederlandish and Renaissance Revival styles) which later surrounding buildings clearly did pick up. It is a disaster from up-close and from a distance, but that's off the subject so I won't go on.

If that's what Foster has in mind for El Pueblo and Union Station, it should be easy to eliminate him quickly.
What about the Hearst bldg that LosAngelesDreamin mentioned? Talk about a successful juxtaposition of old and new:



And I'll throw out two other Foster projects that also do this exceedingly well. The British Museum in London:



...and the National Portrait Gallery in DC:

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  #2566  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
There's no way it will be a discount store, or they wouldn't be teasing/bragging about it, and they certainly wouldn't be persuing it; not when Broadway has entered a phase where several mid to high end restaurants will be opening their doors in the next year. A discount store is simply not congruent with the Bringing Back Broadway vision.
Exactly. You guys (besides a very few) are incredibly pessimistic to a point that borders on irrationality. It's like you guys want downtown to fail. You even refute hard, cold facts about the current income level! Yes, I know, downtown is no Beverly Hills, but it isn't Boyle Heights either. Like District Dirt said, there would be no point in teasing a Ross or a similar discount store. What we will get will be something big, something nice, and something higher-end then what is currently on Broadway. Downtown is getting nicer, and something like a Ross would simply keep Downtown at the level it currently is at. Besides, really, downtown has caught every ball thrown at it. By that I mean, remember all the pessimism when Bottega Louie was going to open? Everybody thought that a higher-end market/restaurant would fail spectacularly in 'gritty' downtown. Well, Bottega Louie certainly hasn't failed. In fact, it almost single-handedly made DLTA one of the biggest food-destinations in LA! Downtown is now starting to get higher-end stores, as well. Brigham Yen just posted on his blog the news that a high-end boutique mens clothing shop just opened on Spring. A high-end womens store just opened on 7th. And these stores aren't just high end for downtown. They are carrying brands that would be considered high-end no matter what neighborhood the store was in. My point is, don't be so pessimistic. Good things are coming to downtown, and downtown is ready for them.

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btw, the link to the Times stats on income by district:

http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/income/median/neighborhood/list/

I would guess the numbers are from the 2000 census but I didn't check.
Using census numbers for Downtown from 2000 is like using a newspaper from 1900 to see what is happening in 2011. So much has changed in the past ten years, that it is impossible to use data from 2000 to prove points in 2011.
     
     
  #2567  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 3:07 AM
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I'm going to guess Forever 21 or XXI.
     
     
  #2568  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 3:14 AM
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I'm going to guess Forever 21 or XXI.
Those aren't department stores. Those are just big stores. I did here that Forever 21 was actively looking for a place downtown, though...
     
     
  #2569  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:03 AM
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Well, Walmart *is* considered a discount department store, and according to press reports they have been looking to build urban stores in LA among other places.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/09/20/walmart-planning-to-enter-urban-markets-marketnewsvideo.html
     
     
  #2570  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:08 AM
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Those aren't department stores. Those are just big stores. I did here that Forever 21 was actively looking for a place downtown, though...
That's true. I forgot that they had hinted at a department store. Not sure what then. Not to be funny or negative, but I could see Falles Paredes. Hope that's not it, but I can't see why a Kohl's would open, much less something more upscale. I'll wait to be surprised.
     
     
  #2571  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:09 AM
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Well, Walmart *is* considered a discount department store, and according to press reports they have been looking to build urban stores in LA among other places.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/09/20/walmart-planning-to-enter-urban-markets-marketnewsvideo.html
Walmart is pretty unpopular with LA politicians because they are a big company that unlike Target is non-union.
     
     
  #2572  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:30 AM
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I don't want to get off subject but I have to totally disagree. What exactly does The Gherkin enhance? It made a very minimal effort to pull up themes from it's surrounding classic buildings (chiefly the Nederlandish and Renaissance Revival styles) which later surrounding buildings clearly did pick up. It is a disaster from up-close and from a distance, but that's off the subject so I won't go on.

If that's what Foster has in mind for El Pueblo and Union Station, it should be easy to eliminate him quickly.
*sigh* goodness you just don't get it... for EXAMPLE... its like taste buds kind of... You keep tasting the same flavor, lets say vanilla, and yes it's delicious but you keep at it and it gets bland... so all of a sudden you throw in chocolate and woah wth happened an explosion of something different and scrumptious.. then switch back to vanilla and its good again back and forth and so on... it acts the same way architecture in buildings effect the eyes and emotions of a person. You get used to historic styles so much that u tend to bypass everything else thats built the same way... throw in something that looks different and people will notice it.. its eye catching.. they will compare and contrast and notice the beauty and details in the buildings more.

ok im done no more
     
     
  #2573  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:31 AM
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Walmart is pretty unpopular with LA politicians because they are a big company that unlike Target is non-union.
But it wouldn't be unprecedented--there is one in Baldwin Hills.
     
     
  #2574  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
What about the Hearst bldg that LosAngelesDreamin mentioned? Talk about a successful juxtaposition of old and new:



And I'll throw out two other Foster projects that also do this exceedingly well. The British Museum in London:



...and the National Portrait Gallery in DC:

     
     
  #2575  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 4:42 AM
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I'm going to guess Forever 21 or XXI.
lol that was so cute
     
     
  #2576  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 5:14 AM
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lol that was so cute
Those are the names of their stores.
     
     
  #2577  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 5:41 AM
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Those are the names of their stores.
haha i know but its cute that they meant dept stores like Neiman Marcus or Barney's New York and you so confident and serious say forever 21 lol u were so off
     
     
  #2578  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 5:56 AM
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haha i know but its cute that they meant dept stores like Neiman Marcus or Barney's New York and you so confident and serious say forever 21 lol u were so off
I wouldn't be so sure. Forever 21 has been aggressively pursuing much larger spaces for their stores. In Orange County they've taken over the Saks space in Mission Viejo, the Circuit City space in Fashion Island and part of Sears at South Coast Plaza. This is an excerpt from a May 25 article in the LA Times:

The retailer also took over an 86,000-square-foot former Mervyns at Los Cerritos Center last year and a 91,000-square-foot location in Times Square in New York. Its new Las Vegas flagship is 127,000 square feet, about the size of an average Target, and in September, it will open a store in Mission Viejo in a building previously occupied by Saks. Its biggest store, at 150,000 square feet, opened last month at a shuttered Gottschalks location in Fresno.

So another dept store-size Forever 21 would not be inconsistent with their current strategy.
     
     
  #2579  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 6:36 AM
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You guys (besides a very few) are incredibly pessimistic to a point that borders on irrationality.
but didn't you say last yr that after visiting bunker hill you were letdown cuz the design or layout of its newer devlpt wasn't urban or ppl friendly enough, or something like that? I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, but some ppl could say your criticism also was a form of being very pessimistic.

btw, when I've been around bunker hill & noticed few ppl on its sidewalks or plazas, it does have a disappointing ghost town feeling about it. but I'd say that's a problem due just as much to the history of the hood than due to the design of its newer devlpt. iow, too little new construction, resulting in too few ppl----in condos, apts, hotels & offices----going back too many yrs.

I recall also being somewhat annoyed at your focal point, not necessarily cuz it was incorrect, but cuz you at the same time didn't get about all the horrible deadzone parking lots throughout bunker hill. I think a lack of very thorough criticisms of the gaps & fugliness of the hood going back to the beginning of time have oddly enough made it easier for ppl to lose sight of just how inexcusably bad things have been for over 50 or maybe even 90 yrs.

which brings us to broadway: I don't recall hearing anyone say just how embarrassingly bad that street was & is, so I actually was lulled into a sense that it wasn't as pathetic as it really is. if anything, I recall some ppl saying the street was "authentic" or "real"----that it was humble & humane----or something like that, & how elitist it was for anyone to slam it.

in the meantime, SF has a glistening big new dept store....


www.dipity.com

while nyc has long been home to a very established big old dept store....


glassdoor.com

or an even larger, somewhat less $$ type of store....



^ when I see things like that, I become even more disgusted & impatient about things like this.....


maps.google.com

Quote:
Like District Dirt said, there would be no point in teasing a Ross or a similar discount store. What we will get will be something big, something nice, and something higher-end then what is currently on Broadway. Downtown is getting nicer, and something like a Ross would simply keep Downtown at the level it currently is at.
believe me, I hope you & districtdirt are correct. In fact, I hope westsidelife loses his bet . but if you read all the comments I posted yesterday from the many ppl who've visited the ONLY dept store in all of dtla, then you'll realize there is a major problem with the area's economy. I can almost guarantee you that if there had been yrs & yrs of lots of money to be made by macys, their store at 7th & hope wouldn't be such a . And 7th & hope isn't off the beaten path as broadway still is. Macy's plaza is closer to more of the ppl with $$, esp those who work in the financial district or stay at some of the better hotels.

so if macys struggles to do well at 7th, flower & hope sts, how will a large new dept store do well at 8th & broadway? I think it will be tough even for a kohls or sears to survive there, much less a kmart (ugh) or a supersized 99 cents store . But I'll be very happy if I'm wrong.

let me end on a positive note: I also still say that dt today is in better shape than it has been in over 30 yrs, or in other ways, in over 50 yrs, or in a certain way, since when horses or model Ts were running through the streets of LA. so just cuz it's not realistic to expect a big $$ dept store to be moving into the hood anytime soon, that doesn't mean there aren't alot of other positive things now taking place or soon to take place.
     
     
  #2580  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 6:50 AM
LosAngelesDreamin LosAngelesDreamin is offline
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I wouldn't be so sure. Forever 21 has been aggressively pursuing much larger spaces for their stores. In Orange County they've taken over the Saks space in Mission Viejo, the Circuit City space in Fashion Island and part of Sears at South Coast Plaza. This is an excerpt from a May 25 article in the LA Times:

The retailer also took over an 86,000-square-foot former Mervyns at Los Cerritos Center last year and a 91,000-square-foot location in Times Square in New York. Its new Las Vegas flagship is 127,000 square feet, about the size of an average Target, and in September, it will open a store in Mission Viejo in a building previously occupied by Saks. Its biggest store, at 150,000 square feet, opened last month at a shuttered Gottschalks location in Fresno.

So another dept store-size Forever 21 would not be inconsistent with their current strategy.
no but what i meant was that XXI isn't a dept store.. its a retail chain store like Guess, H&M, and Express... in contrast to Lord & Taylor, or Bergdorf Goodman.
     
     
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