[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Some news from this project. The CC was almost not going to happen. Plan "B" was in the works without the CC , but the gov. ( not sure which one ) wanted this project to proceed and make it work. So now there is some size changes (to the CC rooms) and maybe some to the building. Hopefully we will hear something in the coming weeks, that this will be a go.

It was almost not going to happen? I wasn't aware of so much doubt.

And I mostly suspect the provincial government's hand in ensuring this project goes through, considering the effort Dexter (and even Kelly) put into this.

As for the room size changes in the building's blueprints, are you implying they could be possibly be adding to the dimensions? Perhaps smaller rooms are in the details now because of an assumption of the CC's rejection?

...anyone want to place bets the building is dramatically different from the last rendering?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

It was almost not going to happen? I wasn't aware of so much doubt.

And I mostly suspect the provincial government's hand in ensuring this project goes through, considering the effort Dexter (and even Kelly) put into this.

As for the room size changes in the building's blueprints, are you implying they could be possibly be adding to the dimensions? Perhaps smaller rooms are in the details now because of an assumption of the CC's rejection?

...anyone want to place bets the building is dramatically different from the last rendering?

Correct me if i am wrong, but any changes that may impact the financials of the centre i.e. less tax generated would require re-approval.

[jslath]

There is an article on CBC about King's Wharf and the author included the following: "In downtown Halifax, another developer wants to build an office tower as part of the new convention centre project. Construction is delayed at the Nova Centre development while Rank Inc. tries to secure tenants."

I'm rather annoyed at Rank Inc because of all the fuss they raised about the federal government being slow to approve funding. They threatened cost increases, they threatened to use Plan-B. Now they dropped the ball.

Developer wants to switch up King's Wharf

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by jslath

There is an article on CBC about King's Wharf and the author included the following: "In downtown Halifax, another developer wants to build an office tower as part of the new convention centre project. Construction is delayed at the Nova Centre development while Rank Inc. tries to secure tenants."

I'm rather annoyed at Rank Inc because of all the fuss they raised about the federal government being slow to approve funding. They threatened cost increases, they threatened to use Plan-B. Now they dropped the ball.

Developer wants to switch up King's Wharf

Maybe if the government would have been a bit quicker on the draw, the tenants would have still been lined up and ready to go. Market conditions changed during the delay, and you have what we now have. A development delayed and still waiting to break ground.

With that being said though, I think Rank should definately consider a switch from office to condo or rental. The conditions are much more in favour of that type of construction right now.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

Maybe if the government would have been a bit quicker on the draw, the tenants would have still been lined up and ready to go. Market conditions changed during the delay, and you have what we now have. A development delayed and still waiting to break ground.

With that being said though, I think Rank should definately consider a switch from office to condo or rental. The conditions are much more in favour of that type of construction right now.

The problem with the switch is the economics change for both the province and city, therefore the return on their investment through taxes significantly decreases (office usually generates higher real estate taxes).

Sad to say, but with everything that is going on globally i doubt there will be success in securing enough tenancy to proceed with the office.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by jslath

There is an article on CBC about King's Wharf and the author included the following: "In downtown Halifax, another developer wants to build an office tower as part of the new convention centre project. Construction is delayed at the Nova Centre development while Rank Inc. tries to secure tenants."

I'm rather annoyed at Rank Inc because of all the fuss they raised about the federal government being slow to approve funding. They threatened cost increases, they threatened to use Plan-B. Now they dropped the ball.

Developer wants to switch up King's Wharf

I wouldn't say they dropped the ball on this. I think many people are becoming impatient and would like to see progress. But it has only been about 3 months since federal approval and with such a large project I am sure that there will be months of design work to be completed in addition to securing tenants (I wonder if the detailed convention centre design work has begun?). I wonder if dropping some of the office space or replacing it with some residential would simplify the design and excavation work. If more space is above ground then they might save 20 - 30 feet of excavation. Based on the early design sketches, it appeared as though the excavation next to Brunswick Street would have been almost 70 feet deep.

In any case, having additional residential development in the downtown core will bring 24/7 vibrancy to the downtown core that office development can't.

Are there any guesses on when excavation will begin? I am guessing around March 2012 but that is just my wild guess.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by sdm

The problem with the switch is the economics change for both the province and city, therefore the return on their investment through taxes significantly decreases (office usually generates higher real estate taxes).

Sad to say, but with everything that is going on globally i doubt there will be success in securing enough tenancy to proceed with the office.

Well, all I have to say is Residential generates higher taxes than a hole in the ground which is what it will probably stay for a long time if he keeps the office portion as is. Developers really need to start adapting to market changes around here. I don't understand why there aren't more people building residential downtown. It seems like a no brainer .

[Chadillaccc]

When is this one going to council?

[Dartboy]

The federal funding came through but the developer now appears on hold. Published reports have the developer now in need of committed tenants which apparently have backed away after some of the world debt issues. OK that is fair.

However if we had gone gangbusters into this and this economic change happened after we were into this say a few years does that not imply that the developer really does not have the proper financial backing to begin with.

I was against the project for the most part due to the terms and have slightly warmed to it in more I dont really give a hoot anymore. (Excited about Kings Wharf etc).

So in light of this uncertainty I would be nervous about moving forward with the risk of us as taxpayers ending up with a giant boondoggle. Perhaps the next 6 months will provide some clarity as the developer has been remarkably quiet on this after being quite public about getting a decsion from council which I admit was delayed as was the fed but he has the go ahead and no cant go ahead.

This concerns me

[someone123]

I wasn't very excited about this development in the beginning because it messed with existing plans for these lots, and because the convention centre could have gone in a better location. I was happier when the plans were released because they were somewhat mixed-use.

I have no idea if this will work out or not but sadly this is pretty close to being a prime example of how the government can unintentionally make things worse. When you announce that you're looking to fund somebody you interfere with their plans, and if you waffle then they end up behind. I think the same stuff more or less happened on Barrington Street for a while when the city debated tax rebates for renovations. For several years there was an incentive to hold off on renovating heritage properties in order to get future rebates.

[Jstaleness]

I found this when I was looking up something about the old Midtown. It also features the herald property so I figured I would share. Nothing we don't already know but just brings it all together.

http://contrarian.ca/2011/08/13/wheres-that-shovel-again/


What Parker didn't mention at the bottom though is that it is not all developer related issues holding back the shovels. Some issues are city related one I can think of hasn't gotten the complete go ahead yet. We shall see.

[someone123]

Some of those are misleading. Gottingen and Kaye was not "shovel-ready" in 2009. It has been waiting for approval and in fact the height had to be reduced in response to pressure from neighbours. It is a canonical example of delays from the planning process.

The Barrington and George lot is empty because the city did nothing with it and then gave it to the province in exchange for the library land. Again, not the fault of developers.

Salter and UG both went through tons of problems from the city. I don't think they can be 100% pinned on anybody, but when a project is delayed by NSUARB appeals and so forth it becomes harder to predict what to build and what the market wants. I personally believe that if the city had had its act together by 2004 or so we might have gotten 1-2 additional projects downtown before the financial troubles. Had there been more of a planning effort to get offices downtown instead of into suburban office parks we would have also seen stuff like Waterside; RIM could have gone there for example but instead it went in Hammonds Plains.

My opinion of Waterside is that it was a mistake for the developer to begin demolition of heritage buildings before having a plan in place for redevelopment. I believe he has admitted to this.

It's also worth noting that several successful recent developments have snuck into those photos: the Marriott Residence Inn, Bishop's Landing, the building on Brunswick (Garrison something or other I think..?), MEC, MetroPark. Nearby are more buildings like Salter's Gate and several new infill buildings by the Hydrostone, not to mention the extensive Gladstone development. And of course the blog poster steered clear entirely of areas like Spring Garden Road or King's Wharf...

[worldlyhaligonian]

This development wasn't scheduled to start until 2012 anyway right?

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

This development wasn't scheduled to start until 2012 anyway right?

I thought the same thing, and complete 2014-15, but may be wrong?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

I thought the same thing, and complete 2014-15, but may be wrong?

I believe this is correct.

[RyeJay]

As this project was not due to begin construction until perhaps mid-2012, we still have some time to play with here.

I'm disappointed by this news of tenancy difficulties for the Nova Centre, but will keep my hopes high during the winter months--in which time we may observe a better conditioned market.

I'm also hopeful with news of the developer's willingness to switch to residential. It's not a loss; you can always convert to commercial at a later time.

[Dartboy]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

As this project was not due to begin construction until perhaps mid-2012, we still have some time to play with here.

I'm disappointed by this news of tenancy difficulties for the Nova Centre, but will keep my hopes high during the winter months--in which time we may observe a better conditioned market.

I'm also hopeful with news of the developer's willingness to switch to residential. It's not a loss; you can always convert to commercial at a later time.

I have no issue with the conversion to residential if that is what makes sense or a combination. One tower Business and one tower resdiential. What I questioned aloud a year ago or so was if this developer was financially stable enough to support this project. Others comment that the city will request a performance bond on very small tenders but yet we were moving money the other way on this deal. I am now again questioning if the developer can back this p[roject and can prove he can cover any cost overruns as he originally promised and that becomes a moot point if he goes under. Too much uncertainty and risk right now on this project. expecially for the reward.

[fenwick16]

The story below was in the Metro News.

(source and full story - http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/1050953--still-no-tenants-for-nova-centre)

Still no tenants for Nova Centre
Centre’s future may hinge on world economic markets

ALEX BOUTILIER
METRO HALIFAX
Published: December 15, 2011 12:41 a.m.
Last modified: December 15, 2011 12:46 a.m.

Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks said he’ll be returning his attention next month to the proposed convention centre project for downtown Halifax.

But the fate of Joe Ramia’s Nova Centre may already be outside the province’s hands.

Estabrooks said Ramia showed considerable patience with the three levels of government as they worked out a $163.4-million funding deal for the project.

The provincial government is returning the favour.

“I’m keeping track of the days,” Estabrooks said yesterday. “(But) Joe was very patient with us through the negotiation period … and we’re going to continue to be patient with him. It’s a top priority for me, though, as January appears on the horizon.”
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[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The story below was in the Metro News.

(source and full story - http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/1050953--still-no-tenants-for-nova-centre)

I think that possibly the only small hope for this is whether instead of strictly financial tenants, if they can attract some of the higher end companies that may set up to service things for the ship building (e.g. some of the high tech companies that will be working on the technical systems etc).

It is pretty clear that with everything going on in Europe that financial companies are sitting on the pause button.

[Jstaleness]

Also, to go along with the above story.

An Art project will fill the void for the time being.

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/local/article/1051191--art-project-to-fill-gaping-city-hole