The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Agreed, this is a prime location and the city is really booming right now.

SHHH!!! Don't let GregHickman hear you being so optimistic!! LOL.

In all seriousness though - I'm not too concerned about the Coast Guard site either. It will be very interesting to see what new and revised proposals with come forth soon. As long as it's the same height (or taller) then it's all good.

[michael_d40]

Oh, for any coffee lovers out there....

I noticed on the Moncton boards they were talking about their new Second Cup a little while back.Which got me thinking. How come we are worthy of a Starbucks Drive Thru but no Second Cup. So I emailed them to see when one was going to open here. Apparently they are planning multiple stores.

The email I received this morning;

Dear Michael



Thank you for your e-mail. Your question is timely as we are currently interviewing potential franchisees for multiple locations in Saint John within the next year.


Kind regards and thanks again for your enthusiasm for Second Cup.



Gina Hartly
Franchise Development Associate – Recruitment

The Second Cup Ltd
6303 Airport Rd. 2nd Floor
Mississauga, ON. L4V 1R8
Tel (905) 362 1818 x 1524
Fax (905) 362 1121

Toll-Free 1 800 569 6318
E-mail: [email protected]
www.secondcup.com

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

SHHH!!! Don't let GregHickman hear you being so optimistic!! LOL.

Appreciated.

Worst case scenario is that the land doesn't get developed. Almost worst case scenario is that the land is used for development geared solely towards cruise ship passengers. Such a prime piece of land needs to be developed for the purposes of the citizens of Saint John, with possibly some amenities for cruise ship passengers.

Personally I loved Hardman's proposal for the Cruise Ship site as it had a good mix of all of the uses needed for prime waterfront land Uptown (not to mention some tall structures). It will be interesting to see what proposals surface in the near future.

As for the city booming....i'm not too sure about that.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

That's frustrating.

Anytime the government is involved in a project (such as selling land here), it automatically doubles or trebles the timeline. No wonder some developers lose interest or pull out of projects. The longer things take, the greater the risk that circumstances will change.....

While it is certainly easy to blame government for a lot of things, I think the Hardman proposal was problematic for day one (I've looked back, this isn't the first time I've pontificated on this).

The initial proposal depended on an outside force (UNB) moving to their site (which wasn't in UNB's plans).

Then when the project got energized again, the financing for this sort of development (anywhere, not just in SJ) was pretty hard to come by.

While, I think Hardman does a lot of things really well, and I wish them all the best in their endeavours, this Coast Guard proposal never had me too fired up.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

As for the city booming....i'm not too sure about that.

No one expected you to be positive on SJ.

Seriously though, speaking to people in the business community, things are going very well in the city right now.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

No one expected you to be positive on SJ.

Seriously though, speaking to people in the business community, things are going very well in the city right now.

It's good to know that members of the Saint John SSP enjoy my input.

Which business community are you speaking to? The business community that I have been in contact with tell be they're down anywhere from between 25-35% this year. With home starts down, along with other things, I suppose we can only go up from here, right? Is that positive enough for you?

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Which business community are you speaking to? The business community that I have been in contact with tell be they're down anywhere from between 25-35% this year. With home starts down, along with other things, I suppose we can only go up from here, right? Is that positive enough for you?

This week I have been speaking with folks from Irving, Cooke's, SJ Board of Trade, Radian6, and Q1 Labs. All are doing well and hiring. Unemployment continues to be very low in the city.

As far as Real estate, the Saint John CMA was one of only 7 in Canada to be graded with a positive short AND long term outlook.

Retail has been growing extremely well and when you combine our big box retailers with the uptown boutiques the results are fantastic.

Finally I would point to the excitement around the Naval contract. Clearly Halifax will be the prime beneficiary but Saint John is next in line. We may even see the city finally put the pension fund mess behind them. The future is bright.

It is easy to be pessimistic, just not sure its productive.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Unemployment continues to be very low in the city.

If you'd like to drop by the North End i'll be glad to show you low unemployment. Food bank usage is up, you know.

Originally Posted by nwalbert

As far as Real estate, the Saint John CMA was one of only 7 in Canada to be graded with a positive short AND long term outlook.

That's lovely, but it still doesn't help the fact that home starts are down. RE agents have been awfully quiet this year. Again, like I said, 25%-35% down. We're far behind other cities like Moncton in terms of real estate and property development this year.

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Finally I would point to the excitement around the Naval contract. Clearly Halifax will be the prime beneficiary but Saint John is next in line. We may even see the city finally put the pension fund mess behind them.

Are we next in line? I'm sure the people of Moncton would like a word with you in regards to that.

Don't get me wrong, the naval contract is absolutely huge for the Maritimes. It's impossible to be pessimistic about that. It's going to cause Halifax to go through it's largest growth period in its history. I'm just not sure that Saint John will see as much from that as people say. We'll wait and see.

As for the pension fund, you're right about it being a mess, but city council agreeing on a solution last night doesn't magically eliminate the debt we have on that. That will take years to fix in terms of reducing; current and retired police members are still upset about it.

Originally Posted by nwalbert

It is easy to be pessimistic, just not sure its productive.

I'm not being pessimistic, i'm just trying to be realistic.

Big shout out to the Radian6 guys. They do good work. If you find the time though, ask your Irving folks how they're managing to keep the west side pulp mill open, because i'm still scratching my head over their continuing operations. You didn't visit Moosehead recently? Or SJ Transit?

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

If you'd like to drop by the North End i'll be glad to show you low unemployment. Food bank usage is up, you know.

No one said that unemployment was zero. The fact that city wide unemployment is very low, and has been that way for a long time is a good indicator.

Originally Posted by GregHickman

That's lovely, but it still doesn't help the fact that home starts are down. RE agents have been awfully quiet this year. Again, like I said, 25%-35% down. We're far behind other cities like Moncton in terms of real estate and property development this year.

Housing starts may or may not be a good indicator on the overall health of the economy. At the end of the day I will take a positive short and long term outlook as a very good thing. Especially when a very small percentage of Canadian CMA's received this.

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Are we next in line? I'm sure the people of Moncton would like a word with you in regards to that.

I am sure Moncton will get some business from the contract but not on the same order that Saint John will and I don't suspect the Moncton folks would argue that. Saint John has a port and a plethora of Shipbuilding expertise and contractors. Not to mention the fact that the company who was awarded the contract is headquartered in Saint John. There is no community in the world tied closer to Irving success than SJ.

Originally Posted by GregHickman

As for the pension fund, you're right about it being a mess, but city council agreeing on a solution last night doesn't magically eliminate the debt we have on that. That will take years to fix in terms of reducing; current and retired police members are still upset about it.

I am not sure you totally understand the situation. The pension fund is not "in debt", in fact there are millions of dollars in the fund however the current contributions (including anticipated market returns) will not cover the anticipated costs down the road. By reducing the the costs down the road (removing indexing) it in fact puts the plan back at board and it is fully funded. If the province approves councils decision it does in fact resolve the issue. The province is certain to approve the decision since they are the ones who forced council into it and are most likely going to use this as a precedence to modify the provincial pension as well.

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Big shout out to the Radian6 guys. They do good work. If you find the time though, ask your Irving folks how they're managing to keep the west side pulp mill open, because i'm still scratching my head over their continuing operations. You didn't visit Moosehead recently? Or SJ Transit?

I know very little about Irving operations and I do not work for the Irvings in any direct or indirect way. The Radian6 deal was significant but the Q1 Labs deal was much more significant and will result in significant investment in Fredericton and Saint John from the largest IT company in the world.

Originally Posted by GregHickman

I'm not being pessimistic, i'm just trying to be realistic.

No, it is just being pessimistic. I do question why you continue to live in Saint John with such a negative outlook in the city?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I am sure Moncton will get some business from the contract but not on the same order that Saint John will and I don't suspect the Moncton folks would argue that. Saint John has a port and a plethora of Shipbuilding expertise and contractors. Not to mention the fact that the company who was awarded the contract is headquartered in Saint John. There is no community in the world tied closer to Irving success than SJ.

No argument from me....

I do expect some business to come Moncton's way, but it would seem only logical that the main NB beneficiary of the shipbuilding contract would be Saint John.....and this is only right and just, especially since the Irving Shipyards have their origins in the port city.

When one city in NB wins, we all win.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

The Radian6 deal was significant but the Q1 Labs deal was much more significant and will result in significant investment in Fredericton and Saint John from the largest IT company in the world.

The Q1 deal had a higher dollar value but the R6 deal brought more money to NB. Hard to say which one will bring more investment to NB over the long term though.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

No, it is just being pessimistic. I do question why you continue to live in Saint John with such a negative outlook in the city?

I've tried being optimistic before, but generally in Saint John we just do not do things properly, or at least as well as they could have been done. There are a plethora of examples to support this.

Now if you don't mind, I think we both have better things to do than to go back and forth on an internet forum over petty things. So, moving on.

I've been hearing rumours of future development at UNBSJ. From what i've heard (and it's just been word of mouth) is two new residence buildings and an unknown building in the middle of the Quad. It would be a massive boost to the university if the number of residences doubled. One of the main difficulties at the university is the commuter-university personality, so doubling the number of students on campus would significantly increase the feel of the campus.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by OliverD

The Q1 deal had a higher dollar value but the R6 deal brought more money to NB. Hard to say which one will bring more investment to NB over the long term though.

Both deals brought significant dollars to NB. Personally I believe that the IBM acquisition over time will bring much more investment as Q1 was a more successful company and IBM is much larger than SalesForce but both are clearly good success stories.

[Southpaw78]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

While it is certainly easy to blame government for a lot of things, I think the Hardman proposal was problematic for day one (I've looked back, this isn't the first time I've pontificated on this).

The initial proposal depended on an outside force (UNB) moving to their site (which wasn't in UNB's plans).

Then when the project got energized again, the financing for this sort of development (anywhere, not just in SJ) was pretty hard to come by.

While, I think Hardman does a lot of things really well, and I wish them all the best in their endeavours, this Coast Guard proposal never had me too fired up.

I really don't think there's a thing to worry about here. Personally, I think Saint John was worse off economically than it is now when this proposal first went on the table. With the new life being breathed into the uptown with new restaurants and shops, the increase in the cruise industry, the international attention with the new geopark, and if the Bay of Fundy get promoted as one of the top 7 wonders of the world, this piece of land will be snatched up in no time at all.

As an ex-pat in Ottawa who comes home to Saint John twice a year, the changes in the city since I left 7 years ago have been obvious. For those who think Saint John is the only backwards city, think again.....Ottawa certainly has it's share of backwards thinkers and poor planning decisions have definitely been made not in the best interest of it's citizens.

[JHikka]

Video re: Paramount Theatre

Video Link

[dhottawa729]

Harbourfront Residences - almost done yet??

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Harbourfront Residences - almost done yet??

Yup!

There's still a lot of work being done, but occupancy starts in a couple weeks, so it's nearly there!

[GUB]

I got thinking about The Hardman Group pulling out of their Coast Guard site proposal and find it quite discouraging.
I appreciate that others may feel this will make for more interesting proposals/opportunities, but the way things move in Saint John, I think it could be years again until there is something on the table.
I hope to be proved wrong, but this is the way things go in SJ. Something is proposed then doesn't happen, something is proposed and doesn't happen etc.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

Originally Posted by GUB

I got thinking about The Hardman Group pulling out of their Coast Guard site proposal and find it quite discouraging.
I appreciate that others may feel this will make for more interesting proposals/opportunities, but the way things move in Saint John, I think it could be years again until there is something on the table.
I hope to be proved wrong, but this is the way things go in SJ. Something is proposed then doesn't happen, something is proposed and doesn't happen etc.

Sadly, that's the way it seems. I remember Mr. Ritchie's SuperBlock; the 14-floor Metro Centre; the 14-floor medical residence that was proposed for across the street of the old proposal from the proposed 16-floor general hospital expansion; three 18-floor Brentwood Towers, the 12-floor condos on the west side, etc., etc.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab

Sadly, that's the way it seems. I remember Mr. Ritchie's SuperBlock; the 14-floor Metro Centre; the 14-floor medical residence that was proposed for across the street of the old proposal from the proposed 16-floor general hospital expansion; three 18-floor Brentwood Towers, the 12-floor condos on the west side, etc., etc.

Don't forget about the Uptown IMAX that became a bargain shop, and which is now currently empty. Or the full development of Harbour Passage. Or the full development of Heatherway. Or the original plans for Highway 1 through the city. Or the full development of Millidgeville Saint John's a good place for 'What Ifs'.