The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[nname]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Even to this day the TTC is the least subsidized transit systems on earth with close to 80% operating cost recovery.

80% cost recovery is good, but that's no where close to the least subsidized transit system on earth. Believe it or not, there are a few transit systems on earth that is actually making money.

EDIT: The cost recovery for TTC is actually about 66%, which is no where near the 80% you claimed.

[caltrane74]

I said operating cost recovery, not cost recovery.

Link Here - 80% Operating cost recovery
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/data/200504250822.shtml

[nname]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I said operating cost recovery, not cost recovery.

Link Here - 80% Operating cost recovery
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/data/200504250822.shtml

That was in 2005.. TTC was going downhill from there.

This is for 2010 according to the TTC annual report:

Revenue: 935M
Expense: 1479M
Subsidies: 483M

Operating Cost Recovery: 67.4%

Capital Contribution: 531M
Expense incl. Capital: 2010M

Net Cost Recovery: 46.5%

For 2009, the cost recoveries are 63.3% and 44.2% respectively. I guess the gain is from the service cut in the middle of last year...

With these numbers, I would probably say the system is pretty average by Canadian standard. Just for comparison, the cost recoveries for Vancouver are 53.6% and 46.5% (note: they count the capital repayment to the private operator of Canada Line as operating expense, that's why the two numbers are closer).

[caltrane74]

If 67% cash recovery on operating expenses is average, what does that make the 53% recovery on the Vancouver system?

My point stands, that the streetcar routes in downtown Toronto have largely subsidized the growth of the less efficient transit in the suburbs.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Even to this day the TTC is the least subsidized transit systems on earth with close to 80% operating cost recovery.

This is not even close to being correct. SMRT in Singapore and MTR in Hong Kong actually turn a pretty decent profit.

Not to mention one of the reasons TTC is so much less subsidized is due to the fact that it has only a few very well used subway lines. Once the new subway lines come into effect the farebox return ratio will drop and the cost recovery ratio will become less favourable.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This is not even close to being correct. SMRT in Singapore and MTR in Hong Kong actually turn a pretty decent profit.

Well I was corrected in the post above, by nname.

Still 67% is decent, and the TTC use to run a profit as well, before they expanded service into the suburbs.

[SteelTown]

The City of Hamilton is going to create a Transit-Only lane along King St from John St to Dundurn St. One step closer to LRT for the B-Line.

It is anticipated that the implementation of the phased Transit-Only lane program would start in the summer of 2012

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/15AB18D2-E02F-44A0-A1E4-03BC0ECC8D93/0/Nov7Item5_2_PW11079.pdf

[nname]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

If 67% cash recovery on operating expenses is average, what does that make the 53% recovery on the Vancouver system?

67% is good, but its not something extraordinary, especially compared to the cities outside of North America. 53% is not bad either - well, its bad compared to some Asian cities but pretty average on the global scale. So IMO, both are "average".

Well, its just that I'm not sure if the streetcar used to generate that much profit to help building the subway, as it is pretty hard to imagine with the cost recovery ratio they currently have (unless you mean long long time ago, like the 50s). In Vancouver and Calgary, both SkyTrain and C-Train are generating profit to help subsidize the bus system. So I tend to believe that it's the Toronto subway that help subsidizing other services right now (this claim could be backed up by that document, as the cost recovery for most bus/streetcar routes are below the TTC average).

[caltrane74]

I believe the reason for the drop off in cost recovery for streetcars, dates back to when the switched over to the current fleet of streetcars (CRLV's /ARLV's). Which by all accounts were far more costly to maintain than the previous generation.

Honestly, I hope that the current lines are upconverted at some time to Right of Ways similar to the St. Clair line/ Harbourfront-Spadina Line, and there are improvements in service and reliability with the new streetcars which will be coming online in a couple of years.

[1331Massi]

Originally Posted by [B

What was left out (IMO):[/B]
The blue line isn't being expanded west to Concodia's Loyola campus (which seems like a no brainer to me).

source: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=143472233945

Ah, Projet Montréal, they would make me take the Métro to school and not the train (I go to Royal West Academy).

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This is not even close to being correct. SMRT in Singapore and MTR in Hong Kong actually turn a pretty decent profit.

Not to mention one of the reasons TTC is so much less subsidized is due to the fact that it has only a few very well used subway lines. Once the new subway lines come into effect the farebox return ratio will drop and the cost recovery ratio will become less favourable.

I very much doubt that. The Eglinton Line really won't be drawing customers away from the current subways; it will be replacing bus service and drawing from other bus lines. If anything, it should be cheaper, on a per customer basis, to operate than the buses. I would imagine that it will increase the city's cost recovery.

[1331Massi]

Originally Posted by vid

Does the announcer say "dou-dou-dou", or is there an electronic chime?

If the announcer said dou-dou-dou, I would LMFAO

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by vid

Does the announcer say "dou-dou-dou", or is there an electronic chime?

This is it: http://www.mouvementcollectif.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Metro-portes-et-doudoudou.wav

[1331Massi]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

This is it: http://www.mouvementcollectif.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Metro-portes-et-doudoudou.wav

Yup, pretty much, but they're installing them on the MR-73's. Will we hear dou-dou-dou Attention nous fermons les portes and then douuuuuuu-douuuuuu-douuuuuuu from the train departing?

PS: I find the way she pronounces door funny (por-TE)

[vid]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

This is it: http://www.mouvementcollectif.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Metro-portes-et-doudoudou.wav

Dreamy.

[1331Massi]

Originally Posted by vid

Dreamy.

A bit of topic, but I realized your thing under your post (nobody tell me what it's called, I dont give a damn) says try it with IBS. try what with IBS????

[Metro-One]

So, it looks like after years of deliberations, negotiations, cancellations, etc... the long awaited Evergreen Line will be starting construction in late summer 2012, with pre construction imminent.

Three firms will be bidding on the contract. An RFP has now been issued to EL Partners, Kiewit/Flatiron Evergreen Line and SNC-Lavalin Inc., all of which have until April 12, 2012 to hand in their technical submissions.

Just to go over the basics again:

The line will run from the Lougheed Station on the Millennium Line to downtown Coquitlam terminating beside Douglas College.

It will be 11km in length.

2 km will be bored tunnel, while the rest will be primarily elevated with a few kilometres at grade running beside the CP tracks through Port Moody.

Rush hour frequencies will commence at 3 minute headways.

The line will take 15 minutes to ride.

5 new stations will be built and the Lougheed Station will be renovated with a third platform.

the Evergreen Line will open in 2016.

Here is a good alignment map displaying the line and station locations.


http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/image_gallery.htm

And for fun, some of the station renders.

Port Moddy is my favourite so far:




Ioco also looks to be very interesting, being built under a road overpass.


And of course the classic Vancouver elevated stations, this one is Burquitlam.


All pics are from the Evergreen website: http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/image_gallery.htm

Cheers

[caltrane74]

Wow a city that actually cares about building transit before it's neck deep in congestion.

What will the world think of next.

[Metro-One]

For a metro of roughly 2.5 million Vancouver does very well mass transit wise, especially in North American terms. I am very excited for this project to break ground!

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by klb86

wow these look pretty sweet!

From http://torontoist.com/2011/11/a-streetcar-we-desire/20111110streetcar13/

New TTC Streetcars

by klb86 at UT
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/3263-New-TTC-Streetcars/page117