Calgary Public Transit II

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

did you see the ?

???

In my original post I mentioned that "Transat carries more people between Europe and Canada than any other airline".

It was Cage who brought up revenue. I never mentioned it. I was talking about VOLUME. I don't care about revenue. I was talking about the actual number of people.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

???

In my original post I mentioned that "Transat carries more people between Europe and Canada than any other airline".

It was Cage who brought up revenue. I never mentioned it. I was talking about VOLUME. I don't care about revenue. I was talking about the actual number of people.

On a people basis, AC still does about twice the volume of Air Transat, the airline not the tour operator that is the parent company.

Air Transat serves more destinations than Air Canada and in the months of June and back 1/2 of September can post higher passenger volume, however on a fully annualized basis AC serves more passengers on Canada to Europe.

Transat Holidays serves millions of people who do not fly Air Transat for their air component, perhaps this is the figures bantered about on Airliners. Transat Holidays purchases seats on many other airlines for the air component: BA, AF, KLM, LH, Swiss, Tui Group, and even AC.

[freeweed]

Either way, I find it mystifying that people can seriously claim that no one would ever, ever make a decision on transportation based on comfort, simply because they can find one example where that might be true (for something most people do once or twice every decade at most, as opposed to something you do 500+ times a year).

Like I've said before in these discussions, I'd be curious how many people here actually ride the C-Train every day. Or at least more than once a month. I see a lot of "oh c'mon, people will put up with anything if they're forced to" type arguments.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Either way, I find it mystifying that people can seriously claim that no one would ever, ever make a decision on transportation based on comfort, simply because they can find one example where that might be true (for something most people do once or twice every decade at most, as opposed to something you do 500+ times a year).

Like I've said before in these discussions, I'd be curious how many people here actually ride the C-Train every day. Or at least more than once a month. I see a lot of "oh c'mon, people will put up with anything if they're forced to" type arguments.

I ride the Ctrain twice everyday and I appreciate the extra standing room.
This really isn't a big deal, there are other things Calgary Transit can work on before fixing perimeter seating. Do people really care that much about a seat?

[Cage]

I ride the Ctrain twice per day, average 4 days per week (job sometimes has travel to other cities).

I ride from Crowfoot to Downtown.

[armorand93]

Twice a day, sometimes up to 4 or 6

[floobie]

I can't say I care about the perimeter seating. I now ride the train about 10 times per week, and it hasn't bothered me at all. The seat grooves fit me just fine, and if things look too squished, I'll just stand.

That's not to say I wouldn't make a decision based on comfort. If a train looks packed, I'll usually wait for the next one. But, in this case, perimeter vs. regular seating has no influence on my decision. However, I prefer both to the seating on the old trains, where the benches are facing each other. The leg room really suffers in those...

[DarkKeyo]

Since we have a bit of a poll going, I ride the train minimum 2 times a day, up to as many as 6-8, and almost every day of the year.

[Ferreth]

Former DT worker riding the train everyday, 'cept in summer when I cycled. Now only ride every month or two to go drinking DT on the weekend.

But I'd say just as relevant a factor in one's opinion on seating types is how far you ride. I'd be more interested in a seat if I rode long distances; since I'm riding Mayland Heights <> DT most of the time, standing is just fine for the 5-10 minutes I'm on the train.

[Boris2k7]

I used to ride twice a day, five days a week (while in University). Right now, with a job outside the core, I ride once a day, two or three days a week. I like perimeter seating for short-distance rides, but like having the extra seating for the cross-town, thirty or more minute rides.

[freeweed]

I guess I'd place myself in the camp where I like the perimeter seating, but very much dislike the implementation CT has done with the bucket seats. Benches work so much better, and if 1 or 2 fewer people can sit because a few larger-than-average riders are sitting, so be it. Along with the stupid poles that impede movement into the centre of the car. What we have now is the worst in "cattle car" mentality.

I take the train twice daily on work days, and other times as appropriate (really depends on the season and what I'm up to). I come in from Crowfoot and generally ride before peak times, so I can virtually always get a seat in both directions. But I do see a lot of problems and frustration at stops further down the line.

[frinkprof]

I probably average just over 1 LRT trip per weekday. Sometimes it's two, but often just one, usually in the non-peak direction. Weekends I'll take it once or twice.

A few years ago it was twice a day seven days a week.

After thinking about it more and also riding a series 8 consist today, I'll revise my earlier position and say that the placement and proliferation of poles is problematic, in addition to the bucket seating. In the area between the doors I think there should be either the middle three-legged pole or the poles attached to the seats, but not both.

I would also agree that length of ride has something to do with the equation, but also boarding location. The Crowfoot/Somerset-Bridlewood/McKnight-Westwinds crowd are more likely to be sensitive to seating arrangement for two reasons: the length of their ride, and the fact that they have the luxury of getting a seat when they board in peak direction in the morning.

[The Chemist]

For me, as a fairly regular subway rider here in Shanghai, the hard plastic seats on Metro trains don't really bother me - because I rarely get to sit down!

But if pole placement is the problem and it's making people congregate around the door areas, that's a different problem that I don't think should be connected to the seating arrangement.

[Robert in Calgary]

Over 30 years, I've gone through several phases. Daily rider, sometimes trying to squeeze into that last space at City Hall heading south during the worst hour of the day.

With my current work, I'm only riding once in awhile.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

But if pole placement is the problem and it's making people congregate around the door areas, that's a different problem that I don't think should be connected to the seating arrangement.

While they are 2 separate issues, they both were first introduced to the C-Train at the same time, on the same cars. Some people really do dislike the cars as a result - some for either reason, many for both. Unfortunately the average person doesn't exactly do a thorough analysis of riders (I guess we're not all OCD nerds) and they just blame one or the other, or both. It's really a shame, because the A/C alone has me loving the new cars.

[MalcolmTucker]

The pole issue should be an easy and cheap enough thing to fix. Sounds like a time to get alderman or the Mayor's office on the case.

[Cage]

Fixing the Series 8 issues to improve customer experience:
- Do a big survey of customers regarding the perimeter seating and customer reactions to the Series 8 configuration. Not just a survey monkey but focus group of monthly pass holders, surveyors at train stations, etc.
- If the reactions from customers suggest a negative impression of Series 8 configuration, make a commitment to fix the issues for a reasonable cost.
- With current budget constraints replacing seats is not a feasible option. Explain the costs of seat replacement to customers.
- Rotate the current series 8 seats from perimeter to forward and rear facing like the other SD160s. Costs would primarily be internal labour and quite feasible. No additional costs for any cars that are not completed.
- The seating switch should fix the poll positioning issues.

Reasons why I think the seating configuration change is required:
- Public opinion is likely to be either in different or negative towards the Series 8 seating configuration. I highly doubt that a comprehensive survey would come back with an overall positive impression of the Series 8. If the public reaction is negative, then for competitive reasons CT should alter Series 8 to address customer concerns.
- Capacity increase and other stated goals for perimeter seating are not being realized. Its is better to push administration to the reality that additional trains and/or four car trains is the only fix towards peak period capacity crunch on the LRT.

[stokes]

Perimeter seating is the only way to go... increased capacity.. and it's the only way to get people out of the BLOODY DOORWAYS!

The loading and unloading is holding the trains off schedule. There's always that one person sitting in the middle of the car who waits till the last minute before making their way to the door.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Cage

Fixing the Series 8 issues to improve customer experience:
- Do a big survey of customers regarding the perimeter seating and customer reactions to the Series 8 configuration. Not just a survey monkey but focus group of monthly pass holders, surveyors at train stations, etc.
- If the reactions from customers suggest a negative impression of Series 8 configuration, make a commitment to fix the issues for a reasonable cost.
- With current budget constraints replacing seats is not a feasible option. Explain the costs of seat replacement to customers.
- Rotate the current series 8 seats from perimeter to forward and rear facing like the other SD160s. Costs would primarily be internal labour and quite feasible. No additional costs for any cars that are not completed.
- The seating switch should fix the poll positioning issues.

Reasons why I think the seating configuration change is required:
- Public opinion is likely to be either in different or negative towards the Series 8 seating configuration. I highly doubt that a comprehensive survey would come back with an overall positive impression of the Series 8. If the public reaction is negative, then for competitive reasons CT should alter Series 8 to address customer concerns.
- Capacity increase and other stated goals for perimeter seating are not being realized. Its is better to push administration to the reality that additional trains and/or four car trains is the only fix towards peak period capacity crunch on the LRT.

This is ridiculous.

It's pretty clear that the front-to back seating orientation is problematic from an efficiency standpoint. You don't even really have to experience it to realize this - it's entirely intuitive.

The current implementation of perimeter seating has presented problems, but is clearly the way to go as a general principle - also intuitive. Let's start with the orientation and placement of poles and an alternative to the bucket seating. Fixing those issues will surely be simpler, be lower-cost than reconfiguration of the seats, and have a better chance of actually solving the bulk of the problems without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Your needlessly complex solutions - and even more complex (and probably after-the-fact) justifications - are growing tiresome. You're like the new Radley77.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Your needlessly complex solutions - and even more complex (and probably after-the-fact) justifications - are growing tiresome. You're like the new Radley77.

I don't think there is any need for that. It's a public forum, and we all have our opinions on things.

I don't agree with Cage on his view of the seating arrangements, but this is a great forum, and it should be a place where we can all share opinions and learn other's points of view without being dismissed or insulted.

Just my 2¢