LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[mello]

I don't understand why the Bay area has two NFL teams. They are lucky to have two baseball and it is pretty absurd how many franchises that market has. Why you would want to share a red "Niner themed" stadium in Santa Clara versus go down to LA is beyond me. I also agree that the Grand Crossing site is looking strong now because Al's sons will want to sell there 51% stake in the team and Roski is looking to be a majority owner in the franchise.

[DowntownCharlieBrown]

Originally Posted by bobcat

The Raiders would be perfect for Grand Crossing.

That would be bad news – both owners have said only one stadium will be built. I believe that translates to “the first one with a team also will be the only one building a stadium”.

I wonder if AEG is offered the Raider’s, if they would re-brand the team, new name and colors, in order to shed the negative reputation that a Raiders crowd would bring to downtown.

I don’t think you would have the same crowd following if renamed the “Unicorns” and the colors were ‘white and light blue’ (I don’t know if anybody would root for the Unicorns, but you know what I mean).

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Vangelist

The only edge Los Angeles even HAS on New York (and San Francisco), aside from the weather, is the fact that it's NOT gentrified completely.

I guess what you're alluding to is pointed out by this person, quoted in today's paper.....

The art of John Baldessari is deeply rooted in Los Angeles. The city plays itself in many of his creations and the artist has depicted it as a playful, energetic, surreal and thriving metropolis.

But that doesn't mean Baldessari thinks L.A. is a beautiful city. Quite the contrary, in fact. In his Tuesday appearance at the Hammer Museum with Times art critic Christopher Knight, the artist made it clear that his adopted hometown is not much to look at.

"I live here because L.A. is ugly... If I lived in a great beautiful city, why would I do art?" he said. "I always have to be slightly angry to do art and L.A. provides that."

the ugliness that he describes is another reason why I believe it's quite a stretch to ever believe LA will become too gentrified & then worry about the consequences of that.

For artists to live in LA & be fully aware of its fugliness is an odd paradox. That's cuz many creative ppl tend to be more conscious of the aesthetics all around them than the average person. So artists, even more than others, must have an exceptionally odd love/hate relationship with the city.

For many typical local residents, I think the fugly look of so much of the city, similar to the overly gritty east side of DT (or what I showed in the pic posted previously), is a major reason their patience is constantly tested & why many of them eventually will move out before the type of gentrification you're fearful of really takes over.

so I have to again say that worrying about LA becoming too gentrified, dt included, is sort of like an 80 pound adult woman who suffers from severe anorexia worrying that a piece of chocolate will make her fat.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by mello

I don't understand why the Bay area has two NFL teams.

doesn't the washington dc area have 2 teams too? And baltimore is to DC what long beach is to LA.

when certain midwestern or smaller cities were in the news over 15 to 20 yrs ago about their sports teams moving to other towns, I recall thinking that was the essence of a "rustbelt" condition. I never realized from that standpoint, I'd soon have to say about LA, "welcome to the new rustbelt"!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

I'm inclined to believe the team best suited for Farmers Field are the Chargers.. However, the Jaguars are in dire need of life support. SO, if I were placing bets the LA Jags would be where I'd place my money.

its next to impossible for the Jags to break their lease. they will not be coming to LA. I think Al Davis' death increases the chances of the Raiders moving to LA but i wouldnt make them the favorites.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

Work on the Spring Street Park has indeed commenced. Apologies for the quality of the photo.

your pics always look perfectly fine to me----nothing to apologize for. however, I wouldn't mind seeing even more pics from your cell phone. they help keep this thread visually alive.

all I can do is glom onto images from the broad museum website's cam. I notice the construction area now has a fence along the entire side of grand ave, so it looks like more of a 100% new ongoing worksite. the wall recently was only limited to the corner of 2nd & grand. I know, hardly big news. But in slow times, I latch onto all changes----any changes----that are signs of something new & hopefully better coming to the hood.

[mello]

Originally Posted by citywatch

doesn't the washington dc area have 2 teams too? And baltimore is to DC what long beach is to LA.

when certain midwestern or smaller cities were in the news over 15 to 20 yrs ago about their sports teams moving to other towns, I recall thinking that was the essence of a "rustbelt" condition. I never realized from that standpoint, I'd soon have to say about LA, "welcome to the new rustbelt"!

Yes the DC/Balt region has two teams with new stadiums. Baltimore was without a team for about 13 to 15 years just like Oakland was while the Raiders were in LA. I would guess the metro population is higher than the Bay Area at this point.

LA Sports Fan: I think this definitely makes them the front runner. His sons want to cash out his 51% of the team. The Spanos family is not willing to part with a big enough percent of the Chargers for this deal to pencil out for AEG. The Rams owner is a long time buddy of Anshutz and he has no tie to the St. Louis area. They are both Denver guys. I don't understand why they wouldn't be the front runner. He should be more than willing to sell 40 to 50% of the Rams seeing that a new stadium will never happen in STL.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Easy

Having the Raiders as tenants would negatively impact condo sales, hotel bookings, and general LA Live attendance. I doubt that they are even under consideration.

Oh please.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by citywatch

doesn't the washington dc area have 2 teams too? And baltimore is to DC what long beach is to LA.

when certain midwestern or smaller cities were in the news over 15 to 20 yrs ago about their sports teams moving to other towns, I recall thinking that was the essence of a "rustbelt" condition. I never realized from that standpoint, I'd soon have to say about LA, "welcome to the new rustbelt"!

Not really. It's more analogous to SF/SJ. But even then, the comparison is not very good.

Baltimore is older, larger, and more established than DC. It also is its own MSA (though part of the larger Bal/Wash CSA).

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by mello

The Spanos family is not willing to part with a big enough percent of the Chargers for this deal to pencil out for AEG. The Rams owner is a long time buddy of Anshutz and he has no tie to the St. Louis area. They are both Denver guys.

I hope your town holds onto the chargers, as I don't think they'd be a good match for LA. sorry, but I get the feeling that if they were in LA, many ppl here would treat them like tired, old, used clothes. plus, it would be ridiculous after all these yrs for socal----from oxnard-santa barbara all the way down to the mexican border----to still end up represented by no more than one team.

the best option would be for the rams to return to LA. but you're wrong about its current owner. Someone told me he is a devout "homer" for the midwestern US, & has a strong sense of loyalty to the ppl he helped bring the rams to in the first place. I hope $$ will change his need to be a cheerleader for missouri, but who knows.

btw, I'm a football widow right now, as my SO is watching the chargers in the other room. He just told me they're leading denver, so that should make you charger fans happy.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

its next to impossible for the Jags to break their lease. they will not be coming to LA. I think Al Davis' death increases the chances of the Raiders moving to LA but i wouldnt make them the favorites.

Plus, they don't have issues with their stadium -- the main reason why teams leave their markets. That's why I can't fucking stand it when people say that LA doesn't deserve an NFL team. The Raiders were immensely popular and the Rams had very good attendance (minus the last few years).

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

Baltimore is older, larger, and more established than DC.

I meant mainly that the two areas are geographically close enough that it's not correct to consider them similar to LA & SF, or miami & Orlando, or Houston & dallas, or nyc & boston.

[Der Blut]

The Raiders are coming to downtown, trust me. Plan accordingly.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by mello

...

LA Sports Fan: I think this definitely makes them the front runner. His sons want to cash out his 51% of the team. The Spanos family is not willing to part with a big enough percent of the Chargers for this deal to pencil out for AEG. The Rams owner is a long time buddy of Anshutz and he has no tie to the St. Louis area. They are both Denver guys. I don't understand why they wouldn't be the front runner. He should be more than willing to sell 40 to 50% of the Rams seeing that a new stadium will never happen in STL.

First off, I would rather have the Raiders than the Chargers.

That being said, I think you're trying to be too optimistic. AEG has said that they are willing to settle for a minority stake (33%, IIRC), something that can be arranged with the Chargers. That and the Chargers' stadium situation being more dire still makes them more of a likely candidate than the Raiders, IMO.

And I agree about the Rams, the team I want back here more than anybody else. There are so many signs that point to their return, and the fact that it's hardly being talked about is pretty telling. In other words, the fact that no pressure is being put on St. Louis to build a new stadium (that will not happen) is a clear indication that they are willing to leave.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by citywatch

...

the best option would be for the rams to return to LA. but you're wrong about its current owner. Someone told me he is a devout "homer" for the midwestern US, & has a strong sense of loyalty to the ppl he helped bring the rams to in the first place. I hope $$ will change his need to be a cheerleader for missouri, but who knows.

...

There is a wealth of evidence that suggests that the Rams will return to LA:

1) The Edward Jones Dome is one of the worst stadiums in the NFL. Renovations will not suffice and it is highly unlikely that the residents of St. Louis will willingly tax themselves to finance a new stadium in the middle of a recession. Stan Korenke can have a shiny new billion-dollar facility for free.
2) The Rams are consistently bottom feeders in terms of attendance, and they will continue to be bottom feeders this season as they are currently 0-4 and play the undefeated Packers next week.
3) Stan Kroenke is a member of the Los Angeles Stadium Working Group.
4) Stan Kroenke is good friends with Phil Anschutz, as they are both Denver-based billionaires who have done business together.
5) Stan Kroenke maintains a residence in LA.
6) Stan Kroenke is from Columbia, which is almost exactly halfway between St. Louis and Kansas City (they have the Chiefs). The Chiefs are more established in Missouri, so it's not like the state would be losing the NFL altogether.
7) The only other NFC team that's a candidate for relocation is the Vikings. Roger Goodell has stated that he does not want the Vikings to move because of the affluence in the Twin Cities region and the established rivalries with the Packers and Bears.
8) Robert Kraft said that Goodell wants both the Rams and Raiders back in LA.
9) The Rams have a long history in LA (49 years).
10) Money talks. There is too much money to be made in the second largest media market. It is a business after all.

[Illithid Dude]

In other news, cycLAvia looked to be a hit today. I'll post some pictures I took later, including one of the ongoing facade renovation of Cliftons.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

There is a wealth of evidence that suggests that the Rams will return to LA:

4) Stan Kroenke is good friends with Phil Anschutz, as they are both Denver-based billionaires who have done business together.

I hope you're correct, but I have to play devil's advocate for one major reason....



celebrityhousepictures.com

if the owner of the rams currently had a main residence only in denver, I'd be pretty confident of what you estimate may happen, will happen. But since he still maintains roots in his hometown, & lives in what likes a fairly palatial house----& since his wife is from arkansas (from the super wealthy family that owns walmart)---I get the feeling he remains emotionally tied to parts of the US that are farther east & south of the west coast.

also, although you describe the stadium in st louis as being really bad, it was built only in 1995, & in my book that's still quite young. If it had been opened even in the 80s or definitely in the 60 or 70s, I could imagine the owner of the rams getting really fidgety about wanting a new place for his team. So he may be more patient about making do with what he has than if he were trapped in the rams former home in anaheim.

I hope I'm wrong.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by mello

Yes the DC/Balt region has two teams with new stadiums. Baltimore was without a team for about 13 to 15 years just like Oakland was while the Raiders were in LA. I would guess the metro population is higher than the Bay Area at this point.

LA Sports Fan: I think this definitely makes them the front runner. His sons want to cash out his 51% of the team. The Spanos family is not willing to part with a big enough percent of the Chargers for this deal to pencil out for AEG. The Rams owner is a long time buddy of Anshutz and he has no tie to the St. Louis area. They are both Denver guys. I don't understand why they wouldn't be the front runner. He should be more than willing to sell 40 to 50% of the Rams seeing that a new stadium will never happen in STL.

im a bit confused. are you saying St Louis is the favorite or the Raiders? i think its down to the Raiders, Chargers and Rams... all former LA teams btw.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

A couple CicLAvia pics courtesy of my phone..

[Quixote]

Citywatch: Like any billionaire, Kroenke has multiple residences. He owns homes in Columbia, Denver, and Malibu.

He is a "Denver-based" billionaire in that he owns the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Avalanche (NHL), Colorado Rapids (MLS), and Colorado Mammoth (NLL). The latter two were purchased from AEG.