Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[xseven]

Originally Posted by StevenF

People will use it if its the only option they have.

No, they really won't.

Wasatch Front residents got all kinds of pissed-off at the mere suggestion of the Mountain View Corridor becoming a toll-road to help pay for funding.

What makes anyone think Utah County residents will happily pay $25 each time to ferry their Hondas over to Lehi to go to work or shopping?

[Future Mayor]

When, (hopefully never) the population of Cedar Valley, Saratoga Springs, and Goshen Valley (south of Cedar Valley) gets built out more. In conjunction with that growth (again hopefully never), the growth of downtown Provo into a major job hub, then Ferries would be a good idea. Have one terminal on the west side and a north bound to land near Vineyard and a south terminal in Provo near Center St/Airport area.

The Ferries would be ideal as a connection to FrontRunner particularly in Vineyard, for those commuting to SLC. Having one near Provo Center St would allow for a direct transit connection to downtown Provo.

With the proposed ideas for the former Geneva sight of a large mixed use development, combined with FrontRunner, this would be the ideal location for a ferry stop. This would also provide some higher density housing options for Saratoga Springs, on the lake and near the ferry dock. Who is to say that the ferry would have to be a car ferry? With the completion of FrontRunner and the ever expanding UTA system, a people ferry may be very feasible.

Again I don't want Cedar and Goshen Valley's to develop, but heaven forbid if they do, a ferry system connected to FrontRunner would be the best solution, IMO.

[i-215]

I hate to admit it, but Pioneer Crossing has greatly postponed the need for the Utah Lake Bridge.

One day the bridge will be built. Perhaps 50-150 years from now after Cedar Valley is built-out.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by i-215

I hate to admit it, but Pioneer Crossing has greatly postponed the need for the Utah Lake Bridge.

One day the bridge will be built. Perhaps 50-150 years from now after Cedar Valley is built-out.

I doubt that a bridge will ever be built, regardless how many homes are built out there.

[xseven]

Originally Posted by i-215

One day the bridge will be built. Perhaps 50-150 years from now after Cedar Valley is built-out.

Maybe, maybe not... Again, I go back to Utah County tax-paying residents providing extra dollars out of their own pocket to fund a bridge or ferry across Utah Lake.

I don't see that as a reality.

[s.p.hansen]

Weber and Davis Counties have been relatively quiet during that last few years; South Salt Lake County and Utah County have been running the show and that won't last forever. Utah County is having its moment, but don't count on us being willing to fund massive amounts of roads from Tooele through the Cedar Valley into Utah County let alone a bridge over Utah Lake.

[chad.farnes]

I have to say that I am much more in favor of a potential ferry happening rather than a bridge (although to be honest, I don't think either of them will ever happen). One thought that I had about the ferry: what will it do in the winter when the lake freezes over?

I don't know much about ferries and I'm sure that an ice breaker ferry could be possible, but it seems that it would increase the cost and make the trip slower making it less financially feasible.

I haven't studied Utah Lake too much in the winter so I don't know if the whole thing freezes, but I have been out around Vineyard and Provo in the winter and the ice can get pretty thick, even thicker than a foot judging by some of the ice chucks lying around.

[BrennanW]

Foot-think ice would pretty much kill a ferry of the magnitude I think we're talking about.

[scrapernerd]

So I have an interesting question. I really dont think a bridge will ever be completed but what if a Front runner extension from vineyard or provo was built across the lake. just the train no roads? would that change anyones mind?

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by scrapernerd

So I have an interesting question. I really dont think a bridge will ever be completed but what if a Front runner extension from vineyard or provo was built across the lake. just the train no roads? would that change anyones mind?

No.

Why would we put money into extending FrontRunner there when you already have places that are more populated and set to grow along 1-15 running south of Provo? Payson and Spanish Fork are going to be huge, they are the Layton and Bountiful of the near future.

[jtrent77]

Originally Posted by scrapernerd

So I have an interesting question. I really dont think a bridge will ever be completed but what if a Front runner extension from vineyard or provo was built across the lake. just the train no roads? would that change anyones mind?

I would be fine with a front runner extension off of Lehi going around to the other side of the lake, but not one that is a bridge across the lake.

[scottharding]

I'll never be fine with anything crossing the lake. Our society needs to assume some responsibility and recognize our obligation to each other and our future. That lake is beautiful, and out here in the west, it is a rarity. With some money invested in cleaning it up, it could be such an attraction. Growth is inevitable and must be planned for. One side of the lake is heavily populated so lets allow that side to grow and develop wisely, and let the other side remain open space.
If some people weren't so set on the flawed notion that they need brand new houses in brand new neighborhoods where everyone is roughly the same age/religion/ethnicity and everyone has a half acre of land and two garages for their two SUV's, etc. etc., then this wouldn't be a problem, as cities and towns would grow more internally, making our cities nicer and preserving our open space.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by scottharding

I'll never be fine with anything crossing the lake. Our society needs to assume some responsibility and recognize our obligation to each other and our future. That lake is beautiful, and out here in the west, it is a rarity. With some money invested in cleaning it up, it could be such an attraction. Growth is inevitable and must be planned for. One side of the lake is heavily populated so lets allow that side to grow and develop wisely, and let the other side remain open space.
If some people weren't so set on the flawed notion that they need brand new houses in brand new neighborhoods where everyone is roughly the same age/religion/ethnicity and everyone has a half acre of land and two garages for their two SUV's, etc. etc., then this wouldn't be a problem, as cities and towns would grow more internally, making our cities nicer and preserving our open space.

You made me think if that new TV show called suburgatory.

[farmerboy]

Completely agree ScottHarding!!!

[Future Mayor]

There was a large paper products manufacturer that was looking to build a facility in the west and was close to finalizing a deal for a large section of land in Goshen. The reason Goshen was the prefered site in Utah was they needed roughly 100 acres, direct access to a large power transmission line and access to a natural gas transmission line, and access to rail for shipments.

The LDS church own 100's of acres out there that are being used for church farms and they were in negotiations to sell the property to the manufacturer. In the process of these negotiations the LDS church hired a planning firm to master plan the area. The long range master plan for that area, took into account the growth of both the Goshen Valley and Cedar Valley and included a proposed FrontRunner loop that headed west after Santaquin and looped around to connect back to the main line in Lehi.

UTA wasn't part of the planning process, but it was something that I could see as much more feasible, if those two valley's grow, rather than a bridge across the lake. The bridge across the lake will serve southern Saratoga Springs while FrontRunner would serve both Goshen and Cedar Valley.

There was also of course a proposed freeway that connected near Mona and eventually connected to Mtn View corridor as well.

This manufacturer ended up not making the purchase and decided to expand their headquarters in the midwest for the time being.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by scottharding

I'll never be fine with anything crossing the lake.

So that's how it is, huh?

Well ...





A freeway TUNNEL under Utah Lake then!

[SLCdude]

Over it, under it, or through it. I don't approve of a lake crossing at this time.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by i-215

So that's how it is, huh?

Well ...





A freeway TUNNEL under Utah Lake then!

Tunnels are cool. Let's bracket off this idea until after Utah County builds out east and south of Utah Lake (like in 30 years).

[WASDEN]

Tunnel! cool idea (even though I'm anti suburban sprawl). The cost of a tunnel would be way prohibitive- who knows if its even feasible? In the end UC-ites will get what there willing to pay for and thats an unsightly causeway.

[Smuttynose1]

Here's the rail ridership numbers for Salt Lake City over the last few years in relation to other cities (generally those with comparable ridership figures).



TRAX

Outside of the mid-2008 spike, ridership has been remarkably steady for TRAX, never dipping below 41,000 nor exceeding 48,000. Sacramento and Saint Louis showed fairly consistent declines, while Phoenix has seen a fairly strong growth trend. Dallas had been trending down, but has since spiked with the addition of a new line there. Minneapolis and Baltimore have seen modest growth trends, while Buffalo, San Jose, and Denver (save for a dramatic drop in one quarter) have been fairly level over the span.



FrontRunner

Starting in the first quarter of 2009, the growth trend has been very good for FrontRunner. Dallas and Seattle have generally been trending downward, while Albuquerque and Oakland have seen growth. Oceanside has generally followed the same trend as SLC.

Data from APTA Ridership Reports