Calgary Public Transit II

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I don't understand how or why people are willing to sit in traffic for 30 minutes to just get out of downtown on a daily basis. Is having a house in the suburbs really worth that? I mean for the time and money people spend commuting, they could buy a house in the inner city instead of Cranston or Tuscany.

I won't pretend I get it totally, but you get much more house for the money that far out, compared to the inner city, so I do understand why some would be tempted to go that route. Also, I think we don't place enough value on the intangible: An inner city house might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more than in the suburbs, while our time in traffic is free, so the comparison can be very easy for some.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I won't pretend I get it totally, but you get much more house for the money that far out, compared to the inner city, so I do understand why some would be tempted to go that route. Also, I think we don't place enough value on the intangible: An inner city house might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more than in the suburbs, while our time in traffic is free, so the comparison can be very easy for some.

Time is anything but free. It is the most unrenewable of resources.

But either way, I would much rather take the train if I lived in the burbs.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I won't pretend I get it totally, but you get much more house for the money that far out, compared to the inner city, so I do understand why some would be tempted to go that route. Also, I think we don't place enough value on the intangible: An inner city house might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more than in the suburbs, while our time in traffic is free, so the comparison can be very easy for some.

it's all a matter of priorities I guess. My priority is not sitting in traffic for an hour and a half every day. lol

But to each their own I suppose.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by floobie

that Herald article I posted earlier, claiming that only 16% of reserved spots are sold or something... I'm not so sure on that. The reserved section in Dalhousie at least is quite full well before 10am.

What they're talking about, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, is 16% of the POTENTIAL reserved spaces. Dalhousie is still mostly un-reserved, but if demand warranted they could go to a full 50% reserved. They only open up new reserved sections as more people sign up, so right now I can well imagine that most of it is un-reserved. If this makes sense.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I don't understand how or why people are willing to sit in traffic for 30 minutes to just get out of downtown on a daily basis. Is having a house in the suburbs really worth that? I mean for the time and money people spend commuting, they could buy a house in the inner city instead of Cranston or Tuscany.

Not sure if I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, or what, but... not everyone who drives lives in the suburbs. I mean, unless you count every single house not in the immediate Core to be "suburban". Mount Royal, for instance - is that a suburb?

The car thing has nothing to do with living waaaay away and driving 90 minutes each day. It's "can I, and do I want to walk home, or should I drive" for a ton of people. Pretty much anyone who doesn't live within a 10-20 minute walk in my experience, which is the vast, VAST majority of this (and any other) city.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by fusili

Time is anything but free. It is the most unrenewable of resources.

But either way, I would much rather take the train if I lived in the burbs.

I'm not saying that I would make that trade! I know my time is more important than money (generally) but I think lots of people don't look at it that way.

Saying that, when I drive to work, I go through downtown in the morning, and blackfoot home. My commute rarely takes more than 25 minutes in either direction by car, but a full hour on the bus to get home (45 minutes in the morning). Transit isn't always quicker, even when downtown is involved. I wish my transit route was as fast as driving.

Something about being stuck in traffic makes it worse than being on a longer transit ride.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

Time is anything but free. It is the most unrenewable of resources.

There's some irony here. When hardcore urbanists harp on me for not walking to a store that's "only" 10-15 minutes away, and I point out that it's only a 2 minute drive... they never seem to take that into account. This "walk everywhere" lifestyle is a real time killer unless things are literally on the next block over.

Which is fine, if that's what you like doing with your time. Just like my reading a book for a solid hour each day while on transit works very well for me.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I'm not saying that I would make that trade! I know my time is more important than money (generally) but I think lots of people don't look at it that way.

Saying that, when I drive to work, I go through downtown in the morning, and blackfoot home. My commute rarely takes more than 25 minutes in either direction by car, but a full hour on the bus to get home (45 minutes in the morning). Transit isn't always quicker, even when downtown is involved. I wish my transit route was as fast as driving.

Something about being stuck in traffic makes it worse than being on a longer transit ride.

Where do you live? Just out of curiosity.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by fusili

Where do you live? Just out of curiosity.

Lakeview. I work in Inglewood, so I go down Crowchild/9th in the morning, and Blackfoot/Glenmore in the evenings.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Not sure if I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, or what, but... not everyone who drives lives in the suburbs. I mean, unless you count every single house not in the immediate Core to be "suburban". Mount Royal, for instance - is that a suburb?

The car thing has nothing to do with living waaaay away and driving 90 minutes each day. It's "can I, and do I want to walk home, or should I drive" for a ton of people. Pretty much anyone who doesn't live within a 10-20 minute walk in my experience, which is the vast, VAST majority of this (and any other) city.

I was saying it might be worth the extra money to live inner city, not necessarily in a condo downtown. A house in Marda Loop would be better than driving to Tuscany or Cranston, that's what I was getting at.

[kw5150]

Originally Posted by freeweed

There's some irony here. When hardcore urbanists harp on me for not walking to a store that's "only" 10-15 minutes away, and I point out that it's only a 2 minute drive... they never seem to take that into account. This "walk everywhere" lifestyle is a real time killer unless things are literally on the next block over.

Which is fine, if that's what you like doing with your time. Just like my reading a book for a solid hour each day while on transit works very well for me.

I love walking, it keeps me in shape and I can say hi to people. For longer stretches, I take my bike.

Dont forget that by driving, you are using non-renewable resources and polluting. Our kids also need clean air to breathe and clean water to drink. A friend of mind recently commented on how clean the air was in Calgary; I hope we can keep it that way.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

Lakeview. I work in Inglewood, so I go down Crowchild/9th in the morning, and Blackfoot/Glenmore in the evenings.

Just b/c I am so interested in transit, would taking a combination of the SW BRT (would stop on 50th and Richard Road) and the 305 (to get into Inglewood) work for you? Or possibly in the future, the SE LRT instead of the 305?

I can just see the Glenmore causeway as being a horrible mess in the evenings sometimes.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

There's some irony here. When hardcore urbanists harp on me for not walking to a store that's "only" 10-15 minutes away, and I point out that it's only a 2 minute drive... they never seem to take that into account. This "walk everywhere" lifestyle is a real time killer unless things are literally on the next block over.

Which is fine, if that's what you like doing with your time. Just like my reading a book for a solid hour each day while on transit works very well for me.

I'm an advocate of having walking as an option. Not everyone wants to walk, and I understand that. It should at least be a viable option whether you choose to do it or not. It's when an area is totally car dependent that I am completely un-interested.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by fusili

Just b/c I am so interested in transit, would taking a combination of the SW BRT (would stop on 50th and Richard Road) and the 305 (to get into Inglewood) work for you? Or possibly in the future, the SE LRT instead of the 305?

I can just see the Glenmore causeway as being a horrible mess in the evenings sometimes.

I would be up for it if it were closer. The problem is that I live in the furthest SW corner of Lakeview, a block from the Weaselhead, so to get to the BRT, I would have to walk about 30 minutes, or take a feeder bus. Since I already have to take 2 buses, I am not sure that adding another bus, for a total of 6 buses in a day, would work well. In order to take advantage of the SW BRT, I would have to walk to MRU, (2.3km best case) and then transfer to the 305.

Right now, I take the 63 express downtown, and transfer to the 305 or 1, to go into Inglewood. To get home, I take the 305, 302, 1 or 411 from Inglewood to downtown, and then the 18 home (the last 63 express leaves downtown at 5:05, too late for me to get).

If I worked downtown, I would be all over the SWBRT. Saying that, all they have to do to make me happy is add 1 last 63 express out of downtown in the evening, leaving at 5:20-5:30. That would make my life much easier, regardless of other SW transit options that are on the table.

EDIT: The SE LRT might work well if they re-align the 18 to go to Westbrook station (They are considering it). I could see taking the 18 to Westbrook, the WLRT downtown, and switching to the SELRT to get to Inglewood. I would have to try it to see what kind of time it would ultimately take.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I don't understand how or why people are willing to sit in traffic for 30 minutes to just get out of downtown on a daily basis. Is having a house in the suburbs really worth that? I mean for the time and money people spend commuting, they could buy a house in the inner city instead of Cranston or Tuscany.

Who is going to pay you for the time you save by not commuting? Most bosses don't care if you shorten your commute, so your salary will remain the same, and thus not change the amount of house you can afford.

[MalcolmTucker]

Time relaxing is worth something, as is household production. Relaxation may not be quantifiable any more than the feeling of 'freedom' with a vehicle, but it does have value.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I'm an advocate of having walking as an option. Not everyone wants to walk, and I understand that. It should at least be a viable option whether you choose to do it or not. It's when an area is totally car dependent that I am completely un-interested.

Yep, and same when it comes to cycling. I don't want anyone who doesn't want to cycle to be forced to, but I want infrastructure for those who choose to.

[DizzyEdge]

re: time saved vs cost paid.

The key is that although $$ cost is a known value, time saved has a variable value depending on the person. Hell, I know some people who like an hour commute as it gives them 'time alone'.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Who is going to pay you for the time you save by not commuting? Most bosses don't care if you shorten your commute, so your salary will remain the same, and thus not change the amount of house you can afford.

No one is going to pay me obviously, but this is time I can spend doing something other than sitting in my car, so to me, it is valuable time as it improves my quality of life.

How if affects what you can afford (albeit not by much) is when you factor in the amount of gas you burn and the increased maintenance your car will require. And if you are driving instead of walking, the $300 more a month you spend parking (provided you don't have a parking stall through work) actually becomes fairly significant relative to your mortgage payment. How much more can you afford for an extra $500 a month?

As has been stated a million times on this forum, it all comes down to personal preference. I prefer to live downtown with all the amenities it offers and not have to drive anywhere. If you choose to live in the suburbs and have a bigger house and a yard, that's your prerogative. All I ask is that if you live more than 10k from downtown that you don't complain about traffic or commute times as that was your choice.

Before someone posts the argument about not wanting to move every time you change jobs, I will say that most jobs that will require you working downtown will be industry wide and shouldn't require a major change in commuting pattern should one change companies. Of course there are always exceptions to this, but I'm not going to argue about it based on every possible job in a career and the geographic location of said career.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

re: time saved vs cost paid.

The key is that although $$ cost is a known value, time saved has a variable value depending on the person. Hell, I know some people who like an hour commute as it gives them 'time alone'.

Yeah, I know people who commute 30 minutes (minimum) into the core in the mornings and they use that time to have a coffee and catch up on the news. As I said, to each their own.