Vic Suites (Hollis & Morris) | 32 m | 10 fl | Complete

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by someone123

Too bad there's been no real news about this development for months (aside from I guess Keith Hall, which is good news -- that is a great heritage building). The Trillium was successful and the Alexander is practically identical; it seems like it should be viable.

I think it's really important to have solid stretches of development that looks good and have lots of activity. Lower Water Street right now is hit and miss and just doesn't really amount to anything. It doesn't take a lot of parking lots to make an area mediocre for pedestrians, which in turn limits the businesses that are supported, which makes it even worse...

The fact that the Keith's Hall reno ahead gives me hope that this is still alive.

My bet is that they are waiting until most or all of the Trillium units are sold, and that supply is off the market, and then test to see if there is still demand (which I am betting there is, given the demographics and the recent success of the developments that have gone up in the area).

[someone123]

Yeah, there seem to be "rounds" of development. It is also true that a delay of a few years does not necessarily mean a development is dead. Many of the buildings downtown took 5+ years and several iterations of planning before they went ahead.

It's easy to imagine a developer being too timid though. If you wait for there to be no competition, well, you're never going to end up marketing your development. But some times probably do make more sense than others for kicking off a development effort. I assume that developers spend a lot of time worrying about this.

[Dmajackson]

Well the balconies certainly stand out but look pretty damn good. Now if only HRM would bury those damn powerlines.

[alps]

Thanks for the pics. I love this building!

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Well the balconies certainly stand out but look pretty damn good. Now if only HRM would bury those damn powerlines.

The tender to "underground" all of those power lines was awarded to Black & McDonald back in June....not sure when it's supposed to get done though.

[halifaxboyns]

Putting the lines underground in downtown is going to be a small miracle and really tough. One of the benefits of the downtowns of cities in the west is back lanes - power lines all end up there (for the most part). Unfortunately, when Halifax and all of HRM was planned we didn't go with lanes, until after the explosion for the hydrostone.

Personally, one of the things I would love to see done in a new greenfield community is to develop a lane type home, which could be on a very narrow lot. We see a lot of them here in Calgary in the inner city communities, where all the lots typically have backlanes and so people split them into 25' lots and build narrow but deep homes with detached garages off the lane. Yes, you can still have a backyard! But putting the lines underground in downtown will be tough...they'd likely end up under sidewalks and so if work is needed, up comes the sidewalk.

[someone123]

When downtown Halifax was planned, electricity distribution and telephones hadn't even been invented.

Underground utilities make sense downtown and are not actually that expensive. I have heard councillors complain that doing Hollis Street for example might cost a million dollars. This sounds like a lot of money but it is not when you consider the fact that those lines serve literally thousands of people. The little stretch around Victoria Park probably has over 1,000 residents plus there are the countless people who pass through the park, go to the hospital, go to All Saints, etc. It is nothing like a suburban street with 30 homes. You're looking at maybe $500 per taxpayer for a major infrastructure improvement (they look nicer but they are also more reliable -- remember Hurricane Juan?) that is going to last decades.

I agree that the lanes are very nice. Unfortunately they are not going to happen in a coherent way if individual developers are left to their own devices.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

But putting the lines underground in downtown will be tough...they'd likely end up under sidewalks and so if work is needed, up comes the sidewalk.

From what I have seen HRM layouts like this;

Sidewalk - Power and cable lines
Curb - Storm Sewer
Bike Lane - Gas line
Traffic Lane - Water/Sewer Pipes

And don't forget that Halifax is pure rock which means blasting is needed in a lot of areas. Out here in Bedford a cliff had to be blasted away to build a sidewalk on the Bedford Highway so even small projects can be costly.

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by someone123

... I have heard councillors complain that doing Hollis Street for example might cost a million dollars. This sounds like a lot of money but it is not when you consider the fact that those lines serve literally thousands of people.

In the end, according to the tender award, the total cost for Hollis/Morris is $622K, with Aliant cost sharing ~ $61K of that.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

When downtown Halifax was planned, electricity distribution and telephones hadn't even been invented.

Underground utilities make sense downtown and are not actually that expensive. I have heard councillors complain that doing Hollis Street for example might cost a million dollars. This sounds like a lot of money but it is not when you consider the fact that those lines serve literally thousands of people. The little stretch around Victoria Park probably has over 1,000 residents plus there are the countless people who pass through the park, go to the hospital, go to All Saints, etc. It is nothing like a suburban street with 30 homes. You're looking at maybe $500 per taxpayer for a major infrastructure improvement (they look nicer but they are also more reliable -- remember Hurricane Juan?) that is going to last decades.

I agree that the lanes are very nice. Unfortunately they are not going to happen in a coherent way if individual developers are left to their own devices.

Oh I realize the history about downtown - but I suspect there will be a push for the lines at least downtown to go underground down the road.

I suspect you won't be seeing a laned subdivision ever in Halifax because the engineering standards won't work. You'd have to re-write the book for that; which isn't a bad idea. That's what Calgary had to do for garrison woods and life continued on...

[kph06]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Well the balconies certainly stand out but look pretty damn good. Now if only HRM would bury those damn powerlines.

The work is already well underway, the trenching along the Vic side of Morris is for the underground conduit. I drove by today and they are encasing it in concrete. Once it is all back filled they will just have to pull the new lines through, and hook them up, then the old one will come down. Black and Mac seems pretty efficient, so I don't think this will take too long.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by kph06

The work is already well underway, the trenching along the Vic side of Morris is for the underground conduit. I drove by today and they are encasing it in concrete. Once it is all back filled they will just have to pull the new lines through, and hook them up, then the old one will come down. Black and Mac seems pretty efficient, so I don't think this will take too long.

The pics we'll all be taking will look much better once the trenching is done. Hopefully this could also be done for many areas in the South End (I'm thinking around Fenwick and the Fenwick Sobeys) so we could see more buildings like this but less power lines!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

The pics we'll all be taking will look much better once the trenching is done. Hopefully this could also be done for many areas in the South End (I'm thinking around Fenwick and the Fenwick Sobeys) so we could see more buildings like this but less power lines!

This is yet another argument for encouraging infill -- you can get developers to make public improvements that benefit everybody. The city also gets more bang for its buck in a densely populated area because more people gain from improvements. A block with 10 story apartments gives the city the tax base to bury lines, put in nice parks, do high-end streetscaping, etc. A block with a few run-down houses and a parking lot can't pay for anything.

The Fenwick Sobeys area needs a larger-scale development along the lines of what is happening with the Citadel Hotel, or maybe like a King's Wharf if you include the Fenwick redevelopment. They could add some towers, storefronts, and a small neighbourhood park. Maybe it would have more of an identity and become Fenwick Village or something. It would be a great place to live. Right now it's just a Sobeys and some strip malls, but there's tons of potential.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

From what I have seen HRM layouts like this;

Sidewalk - Power and cable lines
Curb - Storm Sewer
Bike Lane - Gas line
Traffic Lane - Water/Sewer Pipes

And don't forget that Halifax is pure rock which means blasting is needed in a lot of areas. Out here in Bedford a cliff had to be blasted away to build a sidewalk on the Bedford Highway so even small projects can be costly.

I like putting the gas lines under the bike lanes. That way they will be constantly dug up.

I do not see surface sewer and water lines downtown, so I think the argument about being built on rock is a bit silly.

[Jstaleness]

I'm getting a sense that you really hate bike lanes. lol

[DigitalNinja]

The placement of most bike lanes in Halifax is stupid. And stupid cyclists make it no better. I was on the road the other day downtown. An idiot on a bike came up on the left going down the middle of the road while traffic was moving, then cut in front of me to get over to the right. I almost hit him. The problem with bike lanes in Halifax is the same with everything. If you're going to do something do it right... Well Halifax seems to do everything wrong...

[alps]

I was cycling home from school in the Bell Road bike lane tonight and some girl came biking at me going the wrong direction with headphones, no helmet, and no lights in the dark. (this being the section of the street with bike lanes in both directions too)

[JET]

cyclists who switch between being a cyclist and then a pedestrian, while still driving the bike are dangerous. Cyclists who drive like a motor vehicle operator are good, but are often ignored by car drivers. I really worry about the number of people driving motorcycles and scooters who have no idea about defensive driving on a motorized vehicle with two wheels. Very dangerous.

[DB15]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

The placement of most bike lanes in Halifax is stupid. And stupid cyclists make it no better. I was on the road the other day downtown. An idiot on a bike came up on the left going down the middle of the road while traffic was moving, then cut in front of me to get over to the right. I almost hit him. The problem with bike lanes in Halifax is the same with everything. If you're going to do something do it right... Well Halifax seems to do everything wrong...

what time of day was that

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by alps

I was cycling home from school in the Bell Road bike lane tonight and some girl came biking at me going the wrong direction with headphones, no helmet, and no lights in the dark. (this being the section of the street with bike lanes in both directions too)

Are those lanes supposed to be directional? Bell road is terrible because I can't see any reason to be on the west side of the street when everything downtown is to the east. (In terms of biking, I always drive south on the eastern bike lane)