Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I wouldn't be so quick to give up that land. Container traffic changes with the tides (so to speak), but considering that the world is still having major economic troubles - container traffic is slow to pick up good times and quick to pick up the bad.

Something tells me in the next year or two, it will slowly move back up and I'd hate to give up the land for a stadium when it might be more important for the port. That being said, it might be a good location to consider.

On a more serious note, you can't fit super post panamax ships under the bridges... so we have one terminal, Halterm, that is served by trucks driving down our 250 year old street grid at rush hour and a single train that runs in an out once a day, that can take the new generations, and Ceres, which has much better road and rail connections, but can't. Sigh.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

On a more serious note, you can't fit super post panamax ships under the bridges... so we have one terminal, Halterm, that is served by trucks driving down our 250 year old street grid at rush hour and a single train that runs in an out once a day, that can take the new generations, and Ceres, which has much better road and rail connections, but can't. Sigh.

Someone said earlier that they could fit but only at low tide - that comment alone made me roll my eyes. Talk about poor planning.

I wonder if the area could be dredged to deepen it?

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Someone said earlier that they could fit but only at low tide - that comment alone made me roll my eyes. Talk about poor planning.

I wonder if the area could be dredged to deepen it?

I thought it was already dredged to accomodate the post panamax ships.

[Keith P.]

The problem isn't the draught but rather the clearance under the bridges.The new mega-ships are (wait for it) TOO TALL!!!!

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The problem isn't the draught but rather the clearance under the bridges.The new mega-ships are (wait for it) TOO TALL!!!!

Exactly. And the bridges were built in the 70s and 50s, before anyone thought we had more to worry about that fitting Bonaventure under there. There is no remediating this problem.

[fenwick16]

For the first 6 months of the year, both the containerized tonnage and overall tonnage is up at the Port of Halifax - http://www.portofhalifax.ca/english/about-us/statistics/index.html . Although the increase is only a few percent, the port is doing ok (better than last year). Although a couple of container lines have pulled out, there are others that can make up the slack.

Although the MacKay and MacDonald Bridges are slight obstacles to extremely large ships getting into the Bedford Basin, Halifax can still handle ships at Halterm that most other North American ports can't.

It seems as though the port of Halifax is still in good shape. A great time to build the convention centre and stadium (in my opinion).

[q12]

Huskies Stadium is falling apart

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1261138.html

By MONTY MOSHER Sports Reporter
Thu, Sep 1 - 7:22 AM
The condition of Huskies Stadium has gone from bad to pathetic.

The Halifax facility built for the 1969 Canada Summer Games continues to fall apart, with the stadium roof and press box the latest areas to fail inspections.

Workers have been tearing down the condemned press box, used for media as well as game officials, for the last several days due to black mould in the walls and ceiling. It is now an open-air space.

While the stadium roof has not been condemned, engineers have found soft spots and declared it off limits to coaches out of concern they may crash through. The assistant coaches used to stand on the roof.

The coaching staffs are now expected to share the open space below with the media. It will be outfitted with a new railing and counters.

"It’s an old stadium and we’re doing the best we can with what we have," athletic director Steve Sarty said Wednesday. "I don’t get too worked up about stuff that is out of my control, and this is out of my control."

Police tape marked off the areas around the press box and the seating area below Wednesday. It is expected fans will be permitted to sit in all areas for Saturday’s exhibition game against Acadia, as well as the regular-season opener on Sept. 9 against Mount Allison.

The press box problem is hardly new. It was closed temporarily last fall over mould concerns and it remained out of bounds all summer.

The latest debacle follows two projects in the last 11 years to rip out parts of the crumbling grandstand, which once could seat 4,000 people.

Several hundred seats were removed in 2009 in favour of a grass embankment and the same occurred in 2000. A temporary grandstand on the opposite side of the field has been brought in for the last few years to offer spectators an alternative to the main grandstand.

The state of the stadium is no laughing matter. It played a role in Atlantic University Sport’s decision last fall to move the Uteck Bowl national football semifinal to Moncton until at least 2017.

News of more stadium woes at Saint Mary’s University comes at a time when Halifax regional council is assessing the viability of a new stadium, with the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup soccer championship in mind.

"We’re certainly eager and anxious to hopefully have the city and the university partner together and move forward on a stadium," Sarty said.

The stadium roof will not be removed until the entire grandstand infrastructure is demolished, he said.

Photo by me on August ‎23, 20‎11

[eastcoastal]

All Nova Scotia reports that tenders have been received for the phase 2 consulting, with four bids received:

1. Fowler Bauld & Mitchell
2. WHW
3. B+H and William Nycum and Associates
4. Ekistics
5. Trada Developments

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

There is no remediating this problem.

We could hire Lex Luthor to do a partial drain of the ocean this time, thereby effectively raising the bridges further above sea level?!

Just a thought. LOL

[kph06]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Exactly. And the bridges were built in the 70s and 50s, before anyone thought we had more to worry about that fitting Bonaventure under there. There is no remediating this problem.

I think I read that when the MacDonald gets its new deck it will be slightly raised to provide more space. It won't be much though.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by kph06

I think I read that when the MacDonald gets its new deck it will be slightly raised to provide more space. It won't be much though.

I know that the air draft for post-panamax can be 190 feet, or 57 meters, and that you are required to pre-clear any ship over 46 meters going down the narrows with the pilot authority. I can't find off hand what the low tide airdraft is for the MacDonald... but it is probably not a lot more than that, with the safety margin, say 50 meters? Does anyone know for sure?

My understanding is super post panamax are/will be simply taller than can fit under the bridge at low tide.

[JET]

I remember when the newest cranes in the bedford basin arrived (15 years ago?). They had a one hour window, one day in the year. Quite a bit of backing up and going forward, but they made it. The bridge was even closed.

[fenwick16]

The Calgray Stampeders website has an interesting image of Calgary's McMahon Stadium when it opened in 1960 with 22,000 permanent seats. It was built for $1 million dollars in a span of 103 days.

(source: http://www.stampeders.com/history/more/mcmahon/ )


This is how it looks today:

[halifaxboyns]

Quebec City arena deal revealed

Quebec City has released the details of a controversial $63.3 million arena management deal with Quebecor Media.

The municipal council is set to vote on the 25-year agreement Thursday.

Mayor Régis Labeaume said it will bring the city one step closer to landing an NHL hockey franchise. He said the agreement means Quebecor will manage the state-of-the-art arena and get naming rights for 25 years, with an option to renew after that.

In return, the city will get a building manager that is committed to attracting a pro hockey team — the two parties have agreed to try to bring an NHL team to Quebec City by 2020.

The rest of the story is here.

[halifaxboyns]

The regional council agenda for Tuesday has been published. It appears that Councillor Rankin is seeking to have the stadium motion rescinded, but his new motion doesn't seem that bad.

Here it is:

7. MOTIONS OF RESCISSION – August 9, 2011
7.1 Councillor Rankin
Motion - To rescind the motion passed at the August 9, 2011

1. Approve in principle the recommendation directions outlined in

the Final Report – Phase 1 Stadium Analysis: Halifax Stadium

– Business Plan (Attachment 2);

2. Direct staff to proceed to Phase 2 Stadium Analysis: Site Selection

and Preliminary Design; and

3. Approve an increase to project CBX01363 in the amount of

$275,000 (net HST included) for Phase 2, with funding from

the Strategic Growth Reserve, Q126, as outlined in the Budget

Implications section of the staff report dated July 18, 2011,

and continue to seek out other funding partners:

4. Return to Regional Council end of September for capital

affordability and financing options discussion.

[fenwick16]

I read that a bit differently halifaxboyns. Source - http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/September132011RegionalCouncilAgenda.html

7.1 Councillor Rankin
Motion - To rescind the motion passed at the August 9, 2011

and the motion that he wants to rescind is the one passed on August 9, 2011 which was:

1. Approve in principle the recommendation directions outlined in
the Final Report – Phase 1 Stadium Analysis: Halifax Stadium
– Business Plan (Attachment 2);

2. Direct staff to proceed to Phase 2 Stadium Analysis: Site Selection
and Preliminary Design; and

3. Approve an increase to project CBX01363 in the amount of
$275,000 (net HST included) for Phase 2, with funding from
the Strategic Growth Reserve, Q126, as outlined in the Budget
Implications section of the staff report dated July 18, 2011,
and continue to seek out other funding partners:

4. Return to Regional Council end of September for capital
affordability and financing options discussion.

Reg Ranking on August 9th stated that if the city can't maintain the stadium then don't build it. He also wanted an amendment put in the original motion that if funding partners (for example, the province) state that they won't fund it then have the option to pull out of the phase 2. I don't think there is any question that Reg Rankin wants to stop a stadium in its tracks before it even gets to phase 2.

In my opinion, Reg Rankin's viewpoint is very narrow-minded and backward. It is usually the case that sports facilities are conceptually designed and then funding is arranged instead of trying to get funding partners without even a conceptual idea of what the stadium will look like.

I hope that Reg Rankin won't get support for his motion, since it would be a very dark day in the HRM for sports fans if Council won't even go ahead with a design study. It would be a long shot for him to succeed since the tender has already gone out for the phase 2 work.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I read that a bit differently halifaxboyns. Source - http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/September132011RegionalCouncilAgenda.html

and the motion that he wants to rescind is the one passed on August 9, 2011 which was:

Reg Ranking on August 9th stated that if the city can't maintain the stadium then don't build it. He also wanted an amendment put in the original motion that if funding partners (for example, the province) state that they won't fund it then have the option to pull out of the phase 2. I don't think there is any question that Reg Rankin wants to stop a stadium in its tracks before it even gets to phase 2.

In my opinion, Reg Rankin's viewpoint is very narrow-minded and backward. It is usually the case that sports facilities are conceptually designed and then funding is arranged instead of trying to get funding partners without even a conceptual idea of what the stadium will look like.

I hope that Reg Rankin won't get support for his motion, since it would be a very dark day in the HRM for sports fans if Council won't even go ahead with a design study. It would be a long shot for him to succeed since the tender has already gone out for the phase 2 work.

Oh I guess you are right - I read it very quickly and then went out to the gym. Well I guess we'll have to hope the motion doesn't pass.

[q12]

More questions than answers on proposed HRM Stadium

Jonathan Muma
Sep 12, 2011 06:02:20 AM

http://www.news957.com/news/local/articl...ons-than-answers-on-proposed-hrm-stadium

How much the proposed multi-use sports stadium would cost the taxpayers of Halifax Regional Municipality is one of the big questions residents are anxious to know.

Phase 2 of a feasibility study is currently underway and is aimed at answering cost questions, as well as presenting possible locations and designs.

Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly told News 95.7 there is no way to know at this point what the construction of a stadium would cost taxpayers, but said it could be $1,500 and $2,500 per seat.

"Depending upon what that looks like: Cover, no cover, size and other attributes for this facility will determine those kinds of costs," said Kelly.

The Mayor pointed at a shift in the economic climate in the municipality as a factor in the stadiums future.

"When you see the amount of construction, the amount of new businesses opening up, just the overall feel and the buzz, is a strong vote of confidence community," said Kelly. "There are approximately 24 cranes throughout HRM as we speak, which means construction of large buildings, commercial, apartments and condos."

There are also concerns one of the proposed sites, in Burnside, could be a wetland area, but Kelly said any construction in Burnside would be done away from the protected area.

Kelly said the Halifax Regional Municipality is seeing a lot of positive signs in terms of economic growth, something that would weigh in the decision.

This story is giving me a good feeling about the Mayor's push for a 25,000 seat stadium. The city seems to be approaching a new unprecedented level of growth, with the possibility of the ship building contract the city seems to be buzzing with activity.

I think the mayor has had some discussions with private investors who are interested in the stadium.

As we approach 500,000 people and being the economic centre of a large region, not having an adequate piece of infrastructure like a stadium is a big negative.

I also think with this new level of economic activity, rail-based transit has a much better chance of becoming a reality.

[q12]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

7. MOTIONS OF RESCISSION – August 9, 2011
7.1 Councillor Rankin
Motion - To rescind the motion passed at the August 9, 2011

1. Approve in principle the recommendation directions outlined in

the Final Report – Phase 1 Stadium Analysis: Halifax Stadium

– Business Plan (Attachment 2);

2. Direct staff to proceed to Phase 2 Stadium Analysis: Site Selection

and Preliminary Design; and

3. Approve an increase to project CBX01363 in the amount of

$275,000 (net HST included) for Phase 2, with funding from

the Strategic Growth Reserve, Q126, as outlined in the Budget

Implications section of the staff report dated July 18, 2011,

and continue to seek out other funding partners:

4. Return to Regional Council end of September for capital

affordability and financing options discussion.

MOTION DEFEATED 16-3!

One Councillor said if they stopped phase 2 now they would look like a silly little city to the eyes of the country...

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

MOTION DEFEATED 16-3!

One Councillor said if they stopped phase 2 now they would look like a silly little city to the eyes of the country...

Thanks for the information - that is a relief, although I didn't expect the motion to rescind to succeed.

I like that statement - how true it would be!