HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1021  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2011, 7:36 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
I would love to see high density along there... I can already hear the opponents screaming.
You might have some from the low density behind Agricola, but considering they would be a block away I would find it hard to accept. It would be a different thing if the parcel was backing onto their homes (off Agricola); then I'd have some sympathy (but not much).

There is already existing context with the towers near the Sobeys to support that height (if memory serves me; they are roughly 12 to 15 stories) or greater.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1022  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2011, 11:25 PM
Empire's Avatar
Empire Empire is offline
Salty Town
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Well the car dealerships have to go somewhere...lol.
Typically if the use is the same type (car dealership) I don't believe that environmental remediation would be required. There wouldn't be much point to leave the property sterile to deal with contamination only for more to come along later. While it may seem counter intuitive; it's usually better to just let it go if the same type of use is going back in.

Certainly if this was some change to a mixed use building - definately would need to clean up the site.

I honestly don't mind if Kempt Road is full of car dealerships. They have to go somewhere and having an auto-oriented corridor along there doesn't seem to cause much problems. Where I have a problem with car dealerships is along Robie. The honda and Mazda dealerships in that area really need to be forced out so they can be redeveloped into some high density mixed use and make that area more inviting.
Sorry halifaxboyns but I just don't agree with your logic. If you look at the land mass of the peninsula of Halifax and compare it to the land occupied by car dealerships you will find a massive disconnect. How many car dealerships/automile districts do you find in major urban centres downtown? The peninsula should be considered intensive residential commercial use. Realistically, who can't drive to a car dealership if it were located in one of the industrial parks. Car lots in downtown districts of major urban centres tend to be small and upscale………… BMW to Bentley. (yes I know the market isn’t there)
__________________
Salty Town

Last edited by Empire; Sep 12, 2011 at 12:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1023  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 5:00 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
Sorry halifaxboyns but I just don't agree with your logic. If you look at the land mass of the peninsula of Halifax and compare it to the land occucied by car dealerships you will find a massive disconnect. How many car dealerships/automile districts do you find in major urban centres downtown? The peninsula should be considered intensive residential commercial use. Realistically, who can't drive to a car dealership if it were located in one of the industrial parks. Car lots in downtown districts of major urban centres tend to be small and upscale………… BMW to Bentley. (yes I know the market isn’t there)
I'm not for keeping all of the dealerships, I am for getting rid of mainly of them. Especially the ones along Robie (from Young Street all the way to the commons).

But when I look at Kempt Road - it's not a very pedestrian friendly place. Nor is Robie as you head toward the McKay bridge and for me; if this was kept as the area an area to promote auto-oriented uses (not just car dealerships), I'd be fine. But I can see Robie from Young towards downtown being an area that could be changed, definitely. I'm trying to be realistic with what I'm saying. I can't see how many developers would jump at land along Kempt Road. But if you changed the purpose of say Agricola to be a mixed use corridor from Young to the Commons, I'm sure they would snap up the GM and Honda dealerships in a heart beat.

But to remove them all from the peninsula will be bloody difficult frankly. You can write all the policy you want...but if they aren't doing any major renovations, then they can just sit there...forever.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1024  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 11:25 AM
planarchy's Avatar
planarchy planarchy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
But to remove them all from the peninsula will be bloody difficult frankly. You can write all the policy you want...but if they aren't doing any major renovations, then they can just sit there...forever.
HRM could do a land swap as they own both Burnside and Bayers Lake and are arguably the biggest real estate developer in the region - much to the determent of the peninsula. Give the Kempt Road land made available from the swap to developers for nothing, but make them pay for any remediation that may be necessary.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1025  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 2:54 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by planarchy View Post
HRM could do a land swap as they own both Burnside and Bayers Lake and are arguably the biggest real estate developer in the region - much to the determent of the peninsula. Give the Kempt Road land made available from the swap to developers for nothing, but make them pay for any remediation that may be necessary.
Well the first thing I can think of with that is the HRM act requires HRM to sell land, not give it away (if it's written like any other Municipal Charter). So they would have to sell the land at market value.

That aside, it's an interesting idea...but when I think about Kempt Road I just don't see a pedestrian friendly area, even if it was re-developed. Especially Robie Street as you head towards the McKay bridge - it's such a wide street, it's not friendly to cross at all. Besides, they would be hard pressed to make the case for expropriation, simply to encourage redevelopment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1026  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2011, 10:12 PM
Empire's Avatar
Empire Empire is offline
Salty Town
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,200
They had talked at one point about creating an automall at Bayers Lake. HRM can swap land if it is approved by council. HRM plans to swap the QEH property for Capital Health property on South Park. All of the the medium rise buildings going up at the top of Fairview, Clayton Park West, Larry Uteck, Portland everywhere, Russell lake etc. have the same expectation that many of their tenants/buyers will be working downtown. These same developers would love to pick up a piece of cheap real estate on the peninsula where they could build a medium to high rise building.
__________________
Salty Town
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1027  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2011, 2:46 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
They had talked at one point about creating an automall at Bayers Lake. HRM can swap land if it is approved by council. HRM plans to swap the QEH property for Capital Health property on South Park. All of the the medium rise buildings going up at the top of Fairview, Clayton Park West, Larry Uteck, Portland everywhere, Russell lake etc. have the same expectation that many of their tenants/buyers will be working downtown. These same developers would love to pick up a piece of cheap real estate on the peninsula where they could build a medium to high rise building.
I had a quick peak through the HRM act last night because I was curious about this.

From what I was able to find (and I didn't go into depth) the city must sell land at market value, it can't just give it away. I didn't see anything in the act where it said they could exchange land, so they may be taking the position (which makes sense to me) that if they give someone a piece of land they would want one of equal value.

But in the scenario you describe, it might be more difficult. They'd probably end up having to sell the land at market value and then tack on other charges or require other land in exchange to make the values match...the only people I believe they can sell property to below market value is a not-for-profit society.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1028  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 12:01 PM
Empire's Avatar
Empire Empire is offline
Salty Town
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I had a quick peak through the HRM act last night because I was curious about this.

From what I was able to find (and I didn't go into depth) the city must sell land at market value, it can't just give it away. I didn't see anything in the act where it said they could exchange land, so they may be taking the position (which makes sense to me) that if they give someone a piece of land they would want one of equal value.

But in the scenario you describe, it might be more difficult. They'd probably end up having to sell the land at market value and then tack on other charges or require other land in exchange to make the values match...the only people I believe they can sell property to below market value is a not-for-profit society.
Seems as though there were a couple of land swaps based on this article.

Long-awaited land swap ready to go
HRM will own site of new library
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Tue. Nov 18 - 5:20 AM
The i’s are dotted and the t’s ready to be crossed on a land swap between the city and the province involving several key downtown properties.

The exchange, which has been brewing for years, will finally put the future home of a new main library under the ownership of Halifax Regional Municipality.

Getting construction started soon on the flagship library branch is "high up" on council’s to-do list, Mayor Peter Kelly said Monday.

"I would hope that this would be one of the main priorities for council."

Mr. Kelly also mentioned other high-priority investments in public transit, public safety and infrastructure needs.

"It’s just finding the proper financial approach so it won’t become a drain on the operations."

The new library is to be built at the corner of Spring Garden Road and Queen Street, adjacent to the site of the old Halifax Infirmary, which the province tore down in 2005.

A 2004 city staff report on the library said it was crucial to have the new building in place by 2009.

The current library, at Spring Garden Road and Grafton Street, was built in the early 1950s. Over the years, council has OK’d hundreds of thousands of dollars in upgrades, but the building still poses "potential health and public safety liabilities," according to the 2004 report.

The land swap, which will go before a council committee this afternoon and then to the province for cabinet approval, also includes the old Queen Elizabeth High School property on Robie Street. Part of that land has already been used to expand the emergency wing at the new Infirmary, part of the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre.

The Capital district health authority, a provincial body, now wants to take over the rest of the old school property, but a group called Friends of the Halifax Common opposes further development at the site and wants the land returned to public open space.

A staff report on the land swap says many participants at a recent workshop called for the school site to be used strictly as open space. Members of Friends of the Halifax Common will get a chance to tell that to council themselves tonight. The group is listed on the agenda as making a presentation when the brand new council, elected on Oct. 18, meets tonight for the first time.

The mayor said the city wanted to give the group a chance to voice its concerns publicly.

"This is their opportunity," he said.

It also leaves the door open for further research by city staff, he said.

Also going to the province is the old Birks store site on Barrington Street, which the city has used as a parking lot for the past few years.

At the end of the day, the city will still owe the province about $2 million, but there’s a possibility the city could pay its bill with more land, the mayor said.

Mr. Kelly said other properties are also under review as part of a "long-range program" between the two levels of government. The city might have interest in the Victoria General hospital parking lot on South Park Street "to enhance some of the green space," he said.

( [email protected])
__________________
Salty Town

Last edited by Empire; Sep 12, 2011 at 1:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1029  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 12:29 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
Fizzix geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South End, Hali
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
The Capital district health authority, a provincial body, now wants to take over the rest of the old school property, but a group called Friends of the Halifax Common opposes further development at the site and wants the land returned to public open space.

A staff report on the land swap says many participants at a recent workshop called for the school site to be used strictly as open space. Members of Friends of the Halifax Common will get a chance to tell that to council themselves tonight. The group is listed on the agenda as making a presentation when the brand new council, elected on Oct. 18, meets tonight for the first time.


( [email protected])
This one is easy... outside of their immediate small group, there will be very little stomach to say that some extra grass is better than more beds in the largest tertiary care facility in the maritimes. This is a losing battle for FotHC on this particular front, because there is just no way that this gets broad support.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1030  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 3:44 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
This one is easy... outside of their immediate small group, there will be very little stomach to say that some extra grass is better than more beds in the largest tertiary care facility in the maritimes. This is a losing battle for FotHC on this particular front, because there is just no way that this gets broad support.
Yeah, but this is what I was talking about in another thread... I mean WTF? Why do these groups have any authority to oppose something? They aren't elected, they aren't experts in any area, they simply formed a group that is hell bent on not allowing development in and around the common. Why is this even acknowledged?

The usage of historical documents and so on is rediculous... wasn't the common like 10x its current size? How about they just bulldoze my neighborhood near the common, because didn't exist until about 100 years ago. God dammit Halifax is annoying.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1031  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 4:50 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 35,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
The usage of historical documents and so on is rediculous... wasn't the common like 10x its current size? How about they just bulldoze my neighborhood near the common, because didn't exist until about 100 years ago. God dammit Halifax is annoying.
I think some people view this as a kind of zero-sum political battle where they have to fight tooth and nail for "open space". The historical argument doesn't make any sense. Originally this land was for grazing and other semi-rural uses and back then Halifax was a small town. Obviously the best use of land changes as a city grows and technology evolves.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1032  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 5:59 PM
beyeas beyeas is offline
Fizzix geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South End, Hali
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Yeah, but this is what I was talking about in another thread... I mean WTF? Why do these groups have any authority to oppose something? They aren't elected, they aren't experts in any area, they simply formed a group that is hell bent on not allowing development in and around the common. Why is this even acknowledged?

The usage of historical documents and so on is rediculous... wasn't the common like 10x its current size? How about they just bulldoze my neighborhood near the common, because didn't exist until about 100 years ago. God dammit Halifax is annoying.
Oh I completely agree with you... these minority groups get WAY too much airtime for points-of-view that are nothing but fringe. My point was only that, as opposed to other times where I worry that they might be able to sway opinion, this is one where it is a guaranteed losing battle for them.

No question though, the press here gives them way too much attention relative to their importance, mostly just because "negative" sells.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1033  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 6:41 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 35,790
Negativity sells but there's an even more insidious tendency to find the most extreme positions and present them as equal alternatives in a debate. Unfortunately this extends beyond journalism. Many people fall into the trap of thinking that presenting different opinions and then shrugging your shoulders is equivalent to understanding a complicated topic.

I have a friend who would make fun of this by saying "some say the sun rises in the East, some say the sun rises in the West, but I think the true answer lies somewhere in between".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1034  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 6:43 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyeas View Post
Oh I completely agree with you... these minority groups get WAY too much airtime for points-of-view that are nothing but fringe. My point was only that, as opposed to other times where I worry that they might be able to sway opinion, this is one where it is a guaranteed losing battle for them.

No question though, the press here gives them way too much attention relative to their importance, mostly just because "negative" sells.
It's not just in Halifax though - it's in any city. Look at Ottawa and the whole 'friends of Landsdowne' situation with their stadium. It's a group of well to do people in that community who don't represent everyone and are forcing a fight at city hall.

There are community associations in several of the major cities out here in the West that oppose any attempts to redevelop their communities beyond 'the norm'. I can think of a CA (which I won't name) in Calgary that opposes new homes because they aren't bungalows - because they believe that their community should remain bungalows. This community also opposes people widening driveways and the list goes on...such is life in a big city! A city grows and changes, development happens. It's called life...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1035  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 8:19 PM
pascalosti pascalosti is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 50
citadel halifax hotel getting flatten and being replaced by a $60 million triple tower.

Has this been covered somewhere?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1036  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2011, 8:43 PM
hoser111's Avatar
hoser111 hoser111 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by pascalosti View Post
citadel halifax hotel getting flatten and being replaced by a $60 million triple tower.

Has this been covered somewhere?
yep...here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=193727
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1037  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2011, 11:02 PM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 590
Just a question, not a rumour... but I was walking down Robie today, and there was a geotech drilling truck in the empty lot next to the CTV building. Anything going on there?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1038  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2011, 9:00 PM
coolmillion's Avatar
coolmillion coolmillion is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 296
The former laundromat at the corner of Agricola and Woodill is being renovated and, according to a construction worker on site, the space will soon house a new "eatery". Let's hope that means something good and not another greasy pizza joint.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1039  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2011, 1:20 AM
Dmajackson's Avatar
Dmajackson Dmajackson is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: B3K Halifax, NS
Posts: 9,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolmillion View Post
The former laundromat at the corner of Agricola and Woodill is being renovated and, according to a construction worker on site, the space will soon house a new "eatery". Let's hope that means something good and not another greasy pizza joint.
I live near this spot so I'll keep an eye on it as it gets renovated. Considering the number of pizza joints already in the area I'd be surprised if theres still a market for it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1040  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2011, 6:08 PM
kph06's Avatar
kph06 kph06 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,101
I am not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but DND is accepting bids on a 10-storey building to go where the fleet club currently is.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:10 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.