Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension - Page 26

EastK · #**501** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 2:57 PM**

Anyone noticed that they are doing the same thing coming off the Disraeli Bridge up to Main? No concrete just asphalt. I wonder how that will hold up after several winters..

h0twired · #**502** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastK

Anyone noticed that they are doing the same thing coming off the Disraeli Bridge up to Main? No concrete just asphalt. I wonder how that will hold up after several winters..

The same as it does in any other major city in Canada.

I hate driving on concrete.

jmt18325 · #**503** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0twired

The same as it does in any other major city in Canada.

I hate driving on concrete.

No kidding, especially after it starts to heave. I'm not sure why the use concrete on highway 75.

The Jabroni · #**504** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 4:33 PM**

I'm not sure if this is a psychological thing, but I feel more confident driving on asphalt than concrete because every time I see a Formula One or IndyCar race on TV, whenever they drive on concrete, they tend to lose traction from their tires more on concrete, rather than on asphalt. So, whenever I drive, I tend to "feel" that sense of grip a lot more on asphalt, than concrete.

The long term degradation of concrete heaving and cracking over time doesn't help me either, to be honest.

Riverman · #**505** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

I'm not sure if this is a psychological thing, but I feel more confident driving on asphalt than concrete because every time I see a Formula One or IndyCar race on TV, whenever they drive on concrete, they tend to lose traction from their tires more on concrete, rather than on asphalt. So, whenever I drive, I tend to "feel" that sense of grip a lot more on asphalt, than concrete.

Asphalt tears up very easily during a race as it heats up and ends up as "marbles" off the racing line. Not much fun getting off the line, especially on a motorcycle!

As for the CPT and Disraeli using asphalt only (without concrete underneath), I'm sure it has been tried before on an expressway and may work just fine. Time will tell I guess.

rrskylar · #**506** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastK

Anyone noticed that they are doing the same thing coming off the Disraeli Bridge up to Main? No concrete just asphalt. I wonder how that will hold up after several winters..

Believe me the asphalt from Disraeli to Main is all just temporary until the roadway is reconfigured for the new bridges, I'm sure when done PROPERLY it will all be concrete.

Anywhere else I've seen asphalt used is as an overlay is to extend the life of a roadway.

h0twired · #**507** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Believe me the asphalt from Disraeli to Main is all just temporary until the roadway is reconfigured for the new bridges, I'm sure when done PROPERLY it will all be concrete.

Anywhere else I've seen asphalt used is as an overlay is to extend the life of a roadway.

I highly doubt that. If it was all temporary, you wouldn't see them doing as much work as they are.

You certainly wouldn't see new concrete curbs and sidewalks along the entire stretch and several feet of excavation.

The Jabroni · #**508** Posted **Sep 8, 2011, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Asphalt tears up very easily during a race as it heats up and ends up as "marbles" off the racing line. Not much fun getting off the line, especially on a motorcycle!

As for the CPT and Disraeli using asphalt only (without concrete underneath), I'm sure it has been tried before on an expressway and may work just fine. Time will tell I guess.

Hmmm, I thought, from my understanding, that those "marbles" were the result of tire wear, as pieces of rubber from the tires strip off over time.

The more I know I guess...

Kinguni · #**509** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 6:45 AM**

I'll take driving a bus on asphalt over concrete any day, particularly when its wet. Bus tires slip and slide on concrete almost as well as on ice.

armorand93 · #**510** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 7:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinguni

I'll take driving a bus on asphalt over concrete any day, particularly when its wet. Bus tires slip and slide on concrete almost as well as on ice.

Plus asphalt doesnt crack and form ridiculously large potholes as bad as concrete. There was a big one on Ferry not long ago. It was pretty annoying having an D40 or large truck go over it and have my ground shake...

armorand93 · #**511** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 7:52 AM**

Also Kinguni, is the D901 #107 usually out of the garage? Saw one while going back Downtown on the 16 on the northern side with D40s in the 850-870 range Wednesday

Biff · #**512** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Believe me the asphalt from Disraeli to Main is all just temporary until the roadway is reconfigured for the new bridges, I'm sure when done PROPERLY it will all be concrete.

Anywhere else I've seen asphalt used is as an overlay is to extend the life of a roadway.

Both the Disraeli and Chief Peguis projects are P3 projects, meaning that a private consortium is building and maintaining them for a period of 30 years or so before they are turned over to the city. I recently found out that the reason they use asphalt is that is is cheaper to install and there are certain conditions in the P3 agreement on the quality of the roadways upon turnover to the city. It is also cheaper to resurface the roadways near the time of turnover to meet these conditions than to maintain a concrete surface.

The Disraeli approach work will definitely be asphalt. They are waiting until the majority of heavy construction work is done before applying the last finish layer. I couldn't believe how thick the asphalt was on Chief Peguis. It already has 3 separate layers down and is, like Disraeli awaiting for heavy construction to be complete before laying down the final finish layer.

Kinguni · #**513** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by armorand93

Also Kinguni, is the D901 #107 usually out of the garage? Saw one while going back Downtown on the 16 on the northern side with D40s in the 850-870 range Wednesday

No idea honestly. Buses are very commonly stored outside in the warmer months.

EastK · #**514** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 3:39 PM**

I think you guys are overrating asphalt. It is only a top layer over concrete so it acts like a coating over the supporting concrete. Anyone noticed the waving which happens when asphalt gets a lot of traffic? It is really bad at some intersections where the asphalt has been rippled and stretched. I agree it is nicer to drive on then concrete but only when it is new.

h0twired · #**515** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 3:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastK

It is only a top layer over concrete so it acts like a coating over the supporting concrete.

Uh. No.

The asphalt is being put directly over several feet of packed aggregate. There is not concrete as a part of this construction (or on any other major roadway or interstate).

The only time asphalt is put over concrete is when the city is too cheap to replace the aging concrete and is hoping to extend the life of the roadway for a few years until they can (or need to) do it right.

jmt18325 · #**516** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0twired

The only time asphalt is put over concrete is when the city is too cheap to replace the aging concrete and is hoping to extend the life of the roadway for a few years until they can (or need to) do it right.

That isn't true. Either asphalt or bituminous are put over concrete after the rebar within is retrofitted and the concrete is repaired. It's often part of a midlife repair. You can see that on highway 75 right now, since we're finally spending them money that we should.

Spocket · #**517** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0twired

Uh. No.

The asphalt is being put directly over several feet of packed aggregate. There is not concrete as a part of this construction (or on any other major roadway or interstate).

Uh. Yes .
Asphalt surfacing is often (if not overwhelmingly) put over a concrete base . Usually , as you said , it's to extend the life of a roadway but usually the only time it's just asphalt and a packed agg. base is when it's some semi-rural suburb .

h0twired · #**518** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 5:10 PM**

You guys are all talking about resurfacing.

Not new construction.

Riverman · #**519** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325

That isn't true. Either asphalt or bituminous are put over concrete after the rebar within is retrofitted and the concrete is repaired. It's often part of a midlife repair. You can see that on highway 75 right now, since we're finally spending them money that we should.

In the USA and a few places in Canada crews grind the surface after the rebar repair and use no asphalt. This offers the best, smoothest road surface IMO.

jmt18325 · #**520** Posted **Sep 9, 2011, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

In the USA and a few places in Canada crews grind the surface after the rebar repair and use no asphalt. This offers the best, smoothest road surface IMO.

Not in a climate like ours. Concrete always starts to shift at the joints, no matter what you do. Also, in our climate, the cover stops water from seeping into the concrete joints, putting of what I was just talking about. There's a reason that there is different construction in the prairie provinces than in Central Canada and the US.