Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[racc]

Mayor Watts is supporting transit and the gas tax in the media today. Great to see politicians all around the region pushing for funding for better transit. This was not the case 10 years ago.

Plenty of opportunities for comments supporting transit and the gas tax.

http://www.theprovince.com/business/Finding+Evergreen+cash+budget+ridiculous/5129777/story.html
Letters to the editor- [email protected]

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/255866--skytrain-stations-could-get-corporate-branding
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local...110719/20110719/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
http://www.citycaucus.com/2011/07/dont-l...to-another-los-angeles-says-surrey-mayor
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1459756

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/business/...+first+resort+Cummins/5123127/story.html
Letters to the editor- [email protected]

Never hurts to send a quick message to Mayor Watts supporting transit and the tax and thanking her for her efforts - [email protected]

[racc]

Vote No in the poll against Cummins uninformed idea of cutting transit and municipal services to pay for the Evergreen Line.

http://www.theprovince.com/business/Surr...n+become/5132351/story.html#pd_a_5251067

[Mac Write]

Will 7 4-car Mark II trains be enough for the Evergreen line expansion? Oh right de-interlining.

How will the trains change if the de-interline the M-line with the Expo line? How many trains do they use now for each line and how many will be used once the E-line opens up and what will the frequencies be?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Will 7 4-car Mark II trains be enough for the Evergreen line expansion? Oh right de-interlining.

How will the trains change if the de-interline the M-line with the Expo line? How many trains do they use now for each line and how many will be used once the E-line opens up and what will the frequencies be?

Current:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Broadway: 1 train
Millennium Waterfront <-> VCC: 23 trains
Total: 56 trains

If they're following the break-at-CO plan, then:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8 trains
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5 trains
Evergreen VCC <-> Guildford: 26 trains
Total: 71 trains

[Metro-One]

Dang it you guys, i was hoping this was going to be the post to declare a firm date for construction start.

So what is the deal now??? Has the HST referendum thrown another wrench into this project?? Are we any closer to it actually commencing??

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by nname

Current:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Broadway: 1 train
Millennium Waterfront <-> VCC: 23 trains
Total: 56 trains

If they're following the break-at-CO plan, then:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8 trains
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5 trains
Evergreen VCC <-> Guildford: 26 trains
Total: 71 trains

We are only getting 7 more trains, but need 15. How is that going to be possible?

Mark 1 cars - 150 = 4 car 37.5 Trains
Mark 2 cars - 136 = 4 car 34 trains

Since Some Mark 1 trains run as 6 car trains, we will have even less trains, so how can we do 71 trains+10% spare?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by nname

Current:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Broadway: 1 train
Millennium Waterfront <-> VCC: 23 trains
Total: 56 trains

If they're following the break-at-CO plan, then:
Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32 trains
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8 trains
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5 trains
Evergreen VCC <-> Guildford: 26 trains
Total: 71 trains

I think you mean
Evergreen VCC <-> Douglas College

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Dang it you guys, i was hoping this was going to be the post to declare a firm date for construction start.

So what is the deal now??? Has the HST referendum thrown another wrench into this project?? Are we any closer to it actually commencing??

The shovels-in-the-ground photo-op can't happen until the mayors & province & Translink resolve the added two cents gas tax to boost Translink revenues.

With the HST rejection & no desire for a fall election in BC, the Libs will want the start of Evergreen construction as one of their 'good news' items they can flog this year.

The next BC election is tentatively scheduled for May 14, 2013, so the BC Libs would love to have Evergreen under construction, and have the Port Mann / Highway 1 and the South Fraser Perimeter Road projects finished (or nearly so) so they can be used in the ad blitz during the election campaign.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

We are only getting 7 more trains, but need 15. How is that going to be possible?

Mark 1 cars - 150 = 4 car 37.5 Trains
Mark 2 cars - 136 = 4 car 34 trains

Since Some Mark 1 trains run as 6 car trains, we will have even less trains, so how can we do 71 trains+10% spare?

After Evergreen, we have 150 MK-I cars and 136 MK-II cars, for a total of 286 cars. According to the RTM report, they're planning to have 12% spare for MK-Is and 8% spare for MK-IIs. This give 132 + 124 = 256 available cars.

According to the config stated in the RTM report:

Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32x 4-cars trains = 128 cars
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8x 4-cars trains = 32 cars
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5x 4-cars trains = 20 cars
Evergreen VCC <-> Douglas: 14x 2-cars trains and 12x 4-cars trains = 76 cars

In the report, it assume an entire fleet of MK-II cars. But here, I substitute 132 MKIIs with MKIs (and assume the Expo line is a mix of 4-MKIs and 4-MKIIs; Evergreen is a mix of 2-MKIIs and 4-MKIs; Millennium are 4-MKIs)... When you add them up, it comes up to exactly 256 cars... Coincidence, eh?

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by nname

After Evergreen, we have 150 MK-I cars and 136 MK-II cars, for a total of 286 cars. According to the RTM report, they're planning to have 12% spare for MK-Is and 8% spare for MK-IIs. This give 132 + 124 = 256 available cars.

According to the config stated in the RTM report:

Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32x 4-cars trains = 128 cars
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8x 4-cars trains = 32 cars
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5x 4-cars trains = 20 cars
Evergreen VCC <-> Douglas: 14x 2-cars trains and 12x 4-cars trains = 76 cars

In the report, it assume an entire fleet of MK-II cars. But here, I substitute 132 MKIIs with MKIs (and assume the Expo line is a mix of 4-MKIs and 4-MKIIs; Evergreen is a mix of 2-MKIIs and 4-MKIs; Millennium are 4-MKIs)... When you add them up, it comes up to exactly 256 cars... Coincidence, eh?

2 car trains! Are they insane? The crowding the crowding during rush hour is going to be bad. If only we had gotten the extra 24 cars, then if we got 32 we would have all 4-car trains.

[Gordon]

if we had the 24 cars now we'd probably be running all 6 car mark1 trains on the Expo Line allowng full capacity during peak times.

[DKaz]

They could probably make do with 5 sets of trains (20 cars) to start, assuming 6 minute headways and segregated Lougheed-Douglas College Station service. If they decide to instead have a Columbia to Lougheed shuttle and run the Evergreen Line from VCC to Douglas College, it would be the same result.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

2 car trains! Are they insane? The crowding the crowding during rush hour is going to be bad. If only we had gotten the extra 24 cars, then if we got 32 we would have all 4-car trains.

The headway will be quite a bit better than it is today. Currently M-line is every 5 minutes during rush, I think? The main part of that line will become every 3 minutes under this plan, as I understand it. So you can think of all the 2-car trains as being extra service.

[nname]

According to the plan, the headway would be every 1.8min from Metrotown to Downtown, 2.7min from King George to Metrotown, 3min from Douglas to VCC/Clark, and 3.75min from Lougheed to Columbia.

[WarrenC12]

Sounds pretty good. Count me in as somebody who would still rather see 2-car trains if they can all fit on the track at once. Frequency is #1!

[Chikinlittle]

Agreed. I hate waiting. We are spoiled with SkyTrain. Even Canada Line compared to Expo/Millennium is bad for me.

And then you go to Toronto or Montreal and you have to waaaaiiiiittttt forevvvvvver... or at least it feels like

[Mac Write]

I agree Frequency before length. Though we have all been spoiled by 4-car Mark II trains the last 2 years.

[trofirhen]

All the above statements sound right on to me, and I'm not here to contradict anything. However, please, at the risk of sounding repetitious .... the first new segment that should be built is Millenium to Cambie and Canada Line. This will add a synergy (if that's the word) to getting the rest of the project done.

[TransitFreak]

Originally Posted by nname

After Evergreen, we have 150 MK-I cars and 136 MK-II cars, for a total of 286 cars. According to the RTM report, they're planning to have 12% spare for MK-Is and 8% spare for MK-IIs. This give 132 + 124 = 256 available cars.

According to the config stated in the RTM report:

Expo Waterfront <-> King George: 32x 4-cars trains = 128 cars
Expo Waterfront <-> Metrotown: 8x 4-cars trains = 32 cars
Millennium Columbia <-> Lougheed: 5x 4-cars trains = 20 cars
Evergreen VCC <-> Douglas: 14x 2-cars trains and 12x 4-cars trains = 76 cars

In the report, it assume an entire fleet of MK-II cars. But here, I substitute 132 MKIIs with MKIs (and assume the Expo line is a mix of 4-MKIs and 4-MKIIs; Evergreen is a mix of 2-MKIIs and 4-MKIs; Millennium are 4-MKIs)... When you add them up, it comes up to exactly 256 cars... Coincidence, eh?

Where can one see this report? Also, are they set on providing a shuttle service between Columbia and Lougheed? My thoughts are that the Waterfront<->Lougheed section is about 38 mins, roughly the same as Waterfront<->King George, so you could alternate a la Canada line. Having Metrotown<->Columbia only serviced by King George trains would be crowded as there's a lot of passengers at New West, 22nd and Edmonds still (not so much Royal Oak).

Also, with '4 'distinct' train routes, a lot of switching will now happen at Metrotown, which currently isn't happening, which may lead to operational issues. Also, slotting in the shuttle trains in between the King George trains at Columbia could be problematic. I still think you need that short-turn train at Commercial-Broadway <-> Waterfront to address the additional load coming off the Millenium/Evergreen platforms. Interesting route options being discussed, that's for sure...

[Chikinlittle]

I just questions what's going on in the back rooms that we don't hear about to get this thing going. Is it really a big deal to add a $0.02 gas tax? Or if the Province isn't going to give the small relatively amount of additional funding to get Evergreen going, at least have them spot Translink the funds until Translink can sort it out, just to get shovels in the ground.

Once again... I hate waiting! Can you tell?

And personally, I don't give a — about length of trains. If it's an ego thing because you go to London or NYC and see these uber long trains that is supposed to make Vancouver feel more 'big city', I challenge you to change your conventional perceptions. Longer trains just mean that if you're at the wrong end of the train and the station exit is at the other end of the platform, you have a very long way to walk to get out, making it less convenient. Sure short trains might look like little toy sets compared to what 'big cities' have, but I'm all about ease of use and practicality than the supposed prestige of longer trains and platforms.

Besides, as we are talking about, the more frequently you have trains through a station, the shorter the trains need to be... frequency wins for me hands down.